Getting an engine running?

[Mtv Dave]

I have an oportunaty to get hold of another FTO engine. The engine has all the bits on it, but not sure about getting it running, and it's not the same as mine (no variable valve mechanism).
I was thinking of getting the engine and using it in a one-off build as FTO parts are now getting cheap enough to use them as a donor.

They are pretty modern(early 90's) engines, so has EFI and a propriatory ECU. I don't know of any companies out there that provide a full after-market ECU, only a couple of places do piggy-back ones...
This is my worry, can I do something to get it running, or is it going to be a world of pain?
What would I need as a minimum to get it turning over?

I also will have to bed some space in a relatives house till I move (which seems to be taking forever!)

ps. I don't have any (none, zero) experience of getting an real car engine started out of a car, and have only ever swapped like-for like engines in a car.

[annodomini2]

The standard engine management will probably be looking for other system ecus, such as body computer, abs etc and so you need either those ECU's or a simulator box probably to get the engine started or at least running correctly.

Is it for a kit car?

If it is you may be able to get away with carbs, or a general aftermarket ECU, emerald etc

Although setting it up may be an issue.

[Mtv Dave]

Yeah, I was thinking of using it for a.n.other kit car (i.e. no idea as to what yet).

Not sure what other systems there may be for the engine to hook into - I suppose the Air-con, but I know there are cars without it and there's no ABS/TC/ESM etc on my car (heck, I don't even have airbags).

I wouldn't mind using carbs just to get it running, but I'd rather have an ECU for the long term and tuning - they have a pretty big rev range, so getting the best of the unit with carbs might be quite hard.

[jimmystratos]

What's an FTO engine?
Don't use carbs, go for throttle bodies and EFI using an aftermarket ECU. The original Ecu may have to be attached to an immobiliser ECU to work.

[eliot]

jimmystratos said:

What's an FTO engine?
Don't use carbs, go for throttle bodies and EFI using an aftermarket ECU. The original Ecu may have to be attached to an immobiliser ECU to work.

like a baby 300zx, www.mitsubishi-fto.org/ never sold in uk.

[Mtv Dave]

jimmystratos said:

What's an FTO engine?
Don't use carbs, go for throttle bodies and EFI using an aftermarket ECU. The original Ecu may have to be attached to an immobiliser ECU to work.

It's a 2l V6. Some (mine) have a variable vale head, some (the engine on offer) don't.

The problem with the ECU is that I don't know of anybody that provides an after market ECU solution for them. They are a very similar engine to the 2.5l V6 in the Galant and the 3l V6 from the 3000GT/GTO, but not sure what solutions they have either. I know when I was looking into getting more from my engine I looked into them a couple of years ago and there was nothing to speak of. Maybe I need to send an email to emerald...

[Malachy]

why not use [url=www.megasquirt.info/]megasquirt[/url], all you need to get the engine running on megasquirt is.

A trigger wheel ?not sure on what the stock one is on an fto but if you cant use it then just get a 36-1 wheel welded onto crank pulley with a VR sensor and you can then work out your ignition from there.

the map sensor is included in the ecu so no worries there.

you can run with a tps pot to help with acceleration enrichment, this is not necessary but most people do anyway.

need coolant temp sensor and Inlet air temp sensor, and the resistance values for these at different temperatures, or just swap for gm items.

not needed but highly reccomended is a wideband o2 system such as an [url=www.diyautotune.com/catalog/innovate-digital-wideband-controller-with-sensor-p-41.html?osCsid=790a3e06c44c9e9472f2f324eea10da0]innovate LC1[/url] or [url=http://wbo2.com]Wbo2 [/url] this will give you accurate AFR and allow you to tune fuel easily.

if you use MS1 and the [url=http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/ext]extra code[/url] there are a lot of add ons you can use, ms2 has not been developed to this level yet but will be soon.and if you buy a V3 board the ms2 cpu is backwards compatible so will plug straight in if you ever want to change to it.

I am currently doing this to my 306 cabriolet, running an XU10j2te engine (2l 8v turbo) this will just be a test engine , and come winter it will be stripped, forged pistons going in, 16v head, t28 turbo + dp engineering manifold in a quest for 300bhp

lots of support for megasquirt on the [url=http://msefi.com/]forums[/url] and its always being developed.

only problem is the uk distributer bill shuvrington is extremly slow at doing anything, its quicker to order direct from usa.

good luck
Andy

[eliot]

Malachy said:

only problem is the uk distributer bill shuvrington is extremly slow at doing anything, its quicker to order direct from usa.

I agree with all of that, except for the statement about Bill Shurvinton (Note the correct spelling)– I’ve never had any problems with him whatsoever. He been supporting and supplying the UK community for several years. He also sells LC1 widebands very competitively.
You could also try Phil Ringwood, who wrote a large part of the "-extra" code (alongside James Murray, who's also in the UK) over at www.extraefi.co.uk/

[Mtv Dave]

Ooo! That sounds good, and the PC I have to install could hook into it and control it on the fly (though that'd be really scary )

[eliot]

I use a little toshiba notebook PC. Docking station is attached to gearbox tunnel, just clip it in. I power it straight from the car 12v, with no invertor.

Edited by eliot on Monday 19th June 13:58

[annodomini2]

eliot said:

I use a little toshiba notebook PC. Docking station is attached to gearbox tunnel, just clip it in. I power it straight from the car 12v, with no invertor.

Edited by eliot on Monday 19th June 13:58

I assume your using it without the engine running?

You won't need an inverter, but you should need a good filter as the alternator output is very messy and won't do the laptop much good.

[Mtv Dave]

I have a power unit that is designed to run on the car - even switches to hibernation when the ignition is turned off.

It also all fits nicly behind the stereo stack with a 7" touch-screen monitor at the front... If I keep it in the FTO that is - for the kit install, it'll be an integral part of the dash (primarily a rev/speedo etc display).

[Malachy]

eliot said:

Malachy said:

only problem is the uk distributer bill shuvrington is extremly slow at doing anything, its quicker to order direct from usa.

I agree with all of that, except for the statement about Bill Shurvinton (Note the correct spelling)– I’ve never had any problems with him whatsoever. He been supporting and supplying the UK community for several years. He also sells LC1 widebands very competitively.
You could also try Phil Ringwood, who wrote a large part of the "-extra" code (alongside James Murray, who's also in the UK) over at www.extraefi.co.uk/

i orderd some small componants off him 6x vb921's and 2x ms1 cpu's afew other bits and pieces not a large order 3 weeks later he had not even sent it out even though he had all the parts in stock. got a refund orderd it from jerry at diyautotune and was here within 5 days. That is my only experiance with bill but tbh not a great one, emails took 3 days or so to reply,whereass other distrubuters are same/next day.

there have been similar experiances on MSefi forums.
upto you who you order from completly just thought i would give you a "heads up" to mainly not be put of from ordering from the states as it arrives quite quickly, most of the delivery time is uk customs (2-3days).

i was looking into a car pc aswell, i take it your using something like an M1-ATX PSu and an epia board?

Edited by Malachy on Tuesday 20th June 12:46

[Mtv Dave]

Malachy said:

i was looking into a car pc aswell, i take it your using something like an M1-ATX PSu and an epia board?

Yup, I've got a couple of epia MII 1.2 GHz boards and a few PSUs. I tried to build a nano-potable (i.e. crap laptop) PC a couple of years ago and still have all the bits.
One of them is now a PVR, the other is car bound - I've had it running, but need to make up the brackets to keep it fixed in place when cornering hard (the sticky pads didn't work very well ).

Dave Walker got back to me from Emerald - looks like his only question is over the speed sensor - trying to find out if it's off the crank or the distributor from some Far East boards. Have found lots of info on turbo and super-charging the engine, sounds fun, but that'll have to be a far future project

[Malachy]

Have you checked out the VOOM pc case? it is specificly designed for car aplication, is quite expensive (circa £60) but it just looks like a normal car amplifier.
heres a link
www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=3#p1153

[Mtv Dave]

Ooo that's nice and "designed for harsh environments", I haven't visited them since I gave up on the lappy. The PSU you mentioned is better than the one I have too... may get them both for 125, but will wait a little while first (still waiting on the final bill for moving house).

[Mtv Dave]

Dang - the 'complete' engine I went to buy last night was just hte heads and the intake manifolds, not the bottom end

Looks like I'll have to take the FTO to bits after all - and that will have to wait till winter. Bum

[Malachy]

at least you know you will be getting the better "mivec" engine