New DOHC engine for Mk 1 Transit
Discussion
I have a fully restored Mk I Transit currently fitted with a 2 litre Pinto engine and MT75 5 speed box.
As the engine is now knackered I'm just about to fit a 2 litre DOHC fuel injection engine from a low mileage 92 Sierra into a Mk 1 Transit together with the MT75 Transit gearbox.
The fitting of this lump wont be problem, nor will the wiring of the Ford EEC IV engine managment.
But I have found a slight problem - on the MT75 gearbox of the old Sierra there is a vehicle speed sensor connected to the ECU. The Transit MT75 box does not seem to have any provision for this sensor.
Is this sensor just for idle control when the vehicle is stationary ?
If I left off the sensor will I have any engine fuelling problems etc.?
Any ideas chaps?
As the engine is now knackered I'm just about to fit a 2 litre DOHC fuel injection engine from a low mileage 92 Sierra into a Mk 1 Transit together with the MT75 Transit gearbox.
The fitting of this lump wont be problem, nor will the wiring of the Ford EEC IV engine managment.
But I have found a slight problem - on the MT75 gearbox of the old Sierra there is a vehicle speed sensor connected to the ECU. The Transit MT75 box does not seem to have any provision for this sensor.
Is this sensor just for idle control when the vehicle is stationary ?
If I left off the sensor will I have any engine fuelling problems etc.?
Any ideas chaps?
mud-rover said:
I have a fully restored Mk I Transit currently fitted with a 2 litre Pinto engine and MT75 5 speed box.
As the engine is now knackered I'm just about to fit a 2 litre DOHC fuel injection engine from a low mileage 92 Sierra into a Mk 1 Transit together with the MT75 Transit gearbox.
The fitting of this lump wont be problem, nor will the wiring of the Ford EEC IV engine managment.
But I have found a slight problem - on the MT75 gearbox of the old Sierra there is a vehicle speed sensor connected to the ECU. The Transit MT75 box does not seem to have any provision for this sensor.
Is this sensor just for idle control when the vehicle is stationary ?
If I left off the sensor will I have any engine fuelling problems etc.?
Any ideas chaps?
The 92-95 transit didn't use the 2.0 DOHC 8v lump and so never needed a VSS
The engine was still the old pinto with a weber carb and a little bit of electronic control for the idle stepper motor and the ignition.
The 92 shape V6 did have the VSS though
The 95 onwards Transit did have the DOHC in 8v form.
now to the useful stuff.
On your MT75 whats on the back end of it?
I'm thinking it's the speedo cable coming out of the drivers side. If so, what cap is on the other side of it?
There were 2 types, one was a steel plug which was hylomar'd and hammered into place, the other was a plastic design with an o ring held in place by a small bolt.
All the rear casings on the transit were the same, so by removing the cover you can fit the VSS. The sensor locates in a cut out in the back of the speedo drive.
did that make any sense?
Many thanks for your reply.
Loads of info there.
The Transit is in our workshop at the minute, and I can't I get up there to check the gearbox till the end of the week.
I remember the speedo cable coming out from the drivers side, but I'll have to check to see what is exactly on the other side.
If I do manage to fit the VSS, do you know what it actually sense on in the gearbox? Is it a toothed wheel or pegs or something, and will I have to swap it from the Sierra gearbox. I've never had one of these boxes apart (yet) !!
Loads of info there.
The Transit is in our workshop at the minute, and I can't I get up there to check the gearbox till the end of the week.
I remember the speedo cable coming out from the drivers side, but I'll have to check to see what is exactly on the other side.
If I do manage to fit the VSS, do you know what it actually sense on in the gearbox? Is it a toothed wheel or pegs or something, and will I have to swap it from the Sierra gearbox. I've never had one of these boxes apart (yet) !!
nothing special going on in there m8.
The VSS used on that box was a very simple magnetic pulse affair, The end of the sensor has a oblong section, this simply locates into a female oblong cut out on the plastic speedo drive spindle.
All the spindles had the cut out from memory, so the VSS should just slot straight in.
Expect to lose a little oil too
The VSS used on that box was a very simple magnetic pulse affair, The end of the sensor has a oblong section, this simply locates into a female oblong cut out on the plastic speedo drive spindle.
All the spindles had the cut out from memory, so the VSS should just slot straight in.
Expect to lose a little oil too
Well Nighthawk - your right again.
Just checked back of Transit gearbox and found a round plastic plug held in by M6 bolt, just like you said !
I haven't tried fitting the VSS yet, but it looks like a straight swap with the plastic plug.
Many thanks.
I've also got another question that you could maybe answer, this time regarding the braking system on the old Transit:-
It is currently fitted with a large vacuum servo and master cylinder which I was hoping to change to the more compact abs electric pump unit and master cylinder from the Sierra.
I am of course not intending to use the abs feature and therefore not the ecu.
This unit has a seperate modulator which I won't be using - so I now have just three brake pipe outlets from the master cylinder/pump unit, one for the rear and two for the front brakes.
Mechanically I can get it to fit, but I'm not to sure on the electrical connections.
I have the wiring diagrams and connections for the pump, main valve and pressure switches, and hope to somehow connect some simple auto relays to operate the system.
I wonder if you could give me some advice and feasability of this conversion.
Just checked back of Transit gearbox and found a round plastic plug held in by M6 bolt, just like you said !
I haven't tried fitting the VSS yet, but it looks like a straight swap with the plastic plug.
Many thanks.
I've also got another question that you could maybe answer, this time regarding the braking system on the old Transit:-
It is currently fitted with a large vacuum servo and master cylinder which I was hoping to change to the more compact abs electric pump unit and master cylinder from the Sierra.
I am of course not intending to use the abs feature and therefore not the ecu.
This unit has a seperate modulator which I won't be using - so I now have just three brake pipe outlets from the master cylinder/pump unit, one for the rear and two for the front brakes.
Mechanically I can get it to fit, but I'm not to sure on the electrical connections.
I have the wiring diagrams and connections for the pump, main valve and pressure switches, and hope to somehow connect some simple auto relays to operate the system.
I wonder if you could give me some advice and feasability of this conversion.
Without knowing more about the Sierra, I'm guessing the sytem you want to fit is the Teves mkIV system fitted to sierra/granada and escort cos
If so, I wouldn't bother with it, it was a pain in the ass!
Transit from 92 onwards was offered with ABS as an option, it used a conventional master cylinder arrangenet with the pipes going to the modulator which lived on the chassis rail. from there it did it's normal thing.
Is there any special reason for wanting to fit the components from the sierra to the transit? I'm not sure that the system you have will provide enough pressure or how it would cope with the transits LAV valve on the back axle.
With more details things might become clear though.
Re the VSS, the spinning section of the VSS will plug straight in. I'd recommend replacement of the o ring if not using a new sensor.
If so, I wouldn't bother with it, it was a pain in the ass!
Transit from 92 onwards was offered with ABS as an option, it used a conventional master cylinder arrangenet with the pipes going to the modulator which lived on the chassis rail. from there it did it's normal thing.
Is there any special reason for wanting to fit the components from the sierra to the transit? I'm not sure that the system you have will provide enough pressure or how it would cope with the transits LAV valve on the back axle.
With more details things might become clear though.
Re the VSS, the spinning section of the VSS will plug straight in. I'd recommend replacement of the o ring if not using a new sensor.
The only reason for trying to use the abs pump unit was that the existing Transit servo is bigger and fouls the inlet manifold of the DOHC engine. The abs pump unit was nice and compact and would have fitted with no problems.
But thanks for the info on the Teves system - I'll junk it and instead try and move the existing Transit (virtually new Mk III) servo and pedal assembly over slightly. This shouldn't be a problem as most of the bulkhead will be remodelled anyway when the engine conversion is done later this year.
Many thanks for your help.
But thanks for the info on the Teves system - I'll junk it and instead try and move the existing Transit (virtually new Mk III) servo and pedal assembly over slightly. This shouldn't be a problem as most of the bulkhead will be remodelled anyway when the engine conversion is done later this year.
Many thanks for your help.
Yep, it looks like I will need to use this Pinto adaptor plate on to the Transit box - just as I have currently been using with the old Pinto engine.
The original 2 litre Sierra flywheel is much too small in diameter to be used though, The starter ring-gear would not mate up to the starter motor.
I was wondering maybe if the Transit 2.5 diesel engine flywheel would fit this DOHC engine ?
The original 2 litre Sierra flywheel is much too small in diameter to be used though, The starter ring-gear would not mate up to the starter motor.
I was wondering maybe if the Transit 2.5 diesel engine flywheel would fit this DOHC engine ?
I was thinking about re-drilling the pinto adapter plate to allow the position of the sierra starter to line up with the sierra flywheel!!
dont know if it is physically possable i havent got that far yet!!
The sierra Dohc flywheel is heavier although similar diameter to the sierra pinto one!!
the transit DOHC dont use an adapter plate their gearboxes are very similar to the sierra ones exept the stick is further forward.
I doubt the Di one will fit but i have all 4 different flywheels and can measure the PCD if you want!
The problem with using the transit DOHC box is apart from being rare is the electric speedo drive- not sure if its a strait swap with the mechanical one or not!!
some more info on here www.fordtransit.org
>> Edited by TransitVanMan on Monday 7th November 17:20
dont know if it is physically possable i havent got that far yet!!
The sierra Dohc flywheel is heavier although similar diameter to the sierra pinto one!!
the transit DOHC dont use an adapter plate their gearboxes are very similar to the sierra ones exept the stick is further forward.
I doubt the Di one will fit but i have all 4 different flywheels and can measure the PCD if you want!
The problem with using the transit DOHC box is apart from being rare is the electric speedo drive- not sure if its a strait swap with the mechanical one or not!!
some more info on here www.fordtransit.org
>> Edited by TransitVanMan on Monday 7th November 17:20
nighthawk said:
I don't think you'll get the 2.5di flywheel to fit, and it's also much too heavy to be of any real use.
Why can't you use the flywheel from the 95-2000 series of transits which were fitted with the 8v DOHC?
Just found a 2.5di flywheel in the workshop - and your right - its bloody heavy and also doesn't fit?
I'm struggling to find a later model flywheel . Also if I do get hold of one I'm not sure if the distance between the clutch face and the release bearing on the old Pinto style MT75 gearbox that I'm using will be correct. I'll probally have to end up making spacers etc., or modifying the adaptor plate.
I am seriously considering using the original Sierra MT75 gearbox, flywheel and clutch that came with the engine as it all works together ok, and just modifying the gear linkage to suit - (I have good machine shop facilities).
Not sure about the gearbox ratios though, or whether the clutch will be strong enough, but I'm willing to give it a try. Any thoughts on this?
Where is the UK are you, feel free to PM me for specific Transit or Ford info.
The sierra box used a remote linkage to connect the lever to the box, the transit lever was a direct fit into the front casing and onto the selector forks.
Have you got the engine and transmission on the floor of the workshop at the moment?
The sierra box used a remote linkage to connect the lever to the box, the transit lever was a direct fit into the front casing and onto the selector forks.
Have you got the engine and transmission on the floor of the workshop at the moment?
TransitVanMan said:
I was thinking about re-drilling the pinto adapter plate to allow the position of the sierra starter to line up with the sierra flywheel!!
dont know if it is physically possable i havent got that far yet!!
The sierra Dohc flywheel is heavier although similar diameter to the sierra pinto one!!
the transit DOHC dont use an adapter plate their gearboxes are very similar to the sierra ones exept the stick is further forward.
I doubt the Di one will fit but i have all 4 different flywheels and can measure the PCD if you want!
The problem with using the transit DOHC box is apart from being rare is the electric speedo drive- not sure if its a strait swap with the mechanical one or not!!
some more info on here www.fordtransit.org
>> Edited by TransitVanMan on Monday 7th November 17:20
Yeah - I also reckon that its possible to modify the pinto adaptor plate to suit the Sierra dohc engine, flywheel and starter, to enable it to mate to the larger 2.5di style mt75 box.
But like I said to Nighthawk, I'm not sure about the sierra clutch etc. matching upto the gearbox.
Also I've been told that on the dohc transit boxes the electric speedo drive apparently is easily replaced with the old mechanical one.
Any sources for a good dohc gearbox ?
The speedo drive is exactly the same, the cable side of the older type box had a seal, the same side of the newer box had a core plug.
The plastic speedo drive on the electronic versions was just a cut down version of the older design.
The clutch shouldn't be too much of a problem, from memory all the MT75s had the same number of drive spines, I'm thinking a cossie clutch kit would take the load of shifting a Tranny.
Will the floor panel allow the diesel box to fit?
I'm wondering IF, it would be feasable to swap the diesel front casing and input shaft for the petrol variants. The sierra/transit bell housing is a little longer and narrower, so the input shaft is also a little longer from memory. I'll have a quick shuffty tomorrow (time allowing) to check some part numbers.
The plastic speedo drive on the electronic versions was just a cut down version of the older design.
The clutch shouldn't be too much of a problem, from memory all the MT75s had the same number of drive spines, I'm thinking a cossie clutch kit would take the load of shifting a Tranny.
Will the floor panel allow the diesel box to fit?
I'm wondering IF, it would be feasable to swap the diesel front casing and input shaft for the petrol variants. The sierra/transit bell housing is a little longer and narrower, so the input shaft is also a little longer from memory. I'll have a quick shuffty tomorrow (time allowing) to check some part numbers.
Hi Nighthawk,
The MT75 box is already in the transit together with a pinto adaptor plate and a 2litre pinto (the pinto and deisel engined mk2/3 transits I believe had the same gearbox - ie large bellhousing).
To make it fit, we had to weld in a complete floor section from a scrap Mk3 tranny - a nice little weekend job! It all fitted perfectly and looks original!
The dohc engine and sierra box are sat on the floor in the workshop in my home town Banbury, north Oxfordshire.
If I used the original sierra MT75 gearbox I was going to try and modify the external gear lever linkage only, to crank forward and up instead of to the rear as on the sierra.
Like I said before I have access to good machine and fabrication facilities, so this mod should be possible.
I think this might be the easier option at the moment, together with as you suggest a cossie clutch on this dohc engine. ( I presume the cossie clutch and pressure plate will fit this flywheel and gearbox ?)
The MT75 box is already in the transit together with a pinto adaptor plate and a 2litre pinto (the pinto and deisel engined mk2/3 transits I believe had the same gearbox - ie large bellhousing).
To make it fit, we had to weld in a complete floor section from a scrap Mk3 tranny - a nice little weekend job! It all fitted perfectly and looks original!
The dohc engine and sierra box are sat on the floor in the workshop in my home town Banbury, north Oxfordshire.
If I used the original sierra MT75 gearbox I was going to try and modify the external gear lever linkage only, to crank forward and up instead of to the rear as on the sierra.
Like I said before I have access to good machine and fabrication facilities, so this mod should be possible.
I think this might be the easier option at the moment, together with as you suggest a cossie clutch on this dohc engine. ( I presume the cossie clutch and pressure plate will fit this flywheel and gearbox ?)
If you can mod the gear linkage on the sierra box i'd do that!!! yove got a lot more easly available box then!! just incase you need to find one in future finding a DOHC tranny box would be a nightmare!!
Also the sierra clutch should be ok its the same as the granada's and a granada weighs more than a mk1 transit anyway!!
Also the sierra clutch should be ok its the same as the granada's and a granada weighs more than a mk1 transit anyway!!
mud-rover said:
Hi Nighthawk,
The MT75 box is already in the transit together with a pinto adaptor plate and a 2litre pinto (the pinto and deisel engined mk2/3 transits I believe had the same gearbox - ie large bellhousing).
To make it fit, we had to weld in a complete floor section from a scrap Mk3 tranny - a nice little weekend job! It all fitted perfectly and looks original!
The dohc engine and sierra box are sat on the floor in the workshop in my home town Banbury, north Oxfordshire.
If I used the original sierra MT75 gearbox I was going to try and modify the external gear lever linkage only, to crank forward and up instead of to the rear as on the sierra.
Like I said before I have access to good machine and fabrication facilities, so this mod should be possible.
I think this might be the easier option at the moment, together with as you suggest a cossie clutch on this dohc engine. ( I presume the cossie clutch and pressure plate will fit this flywheel and gearbox ?)
Without trying the various bits and bobs on them, i'm not sure if it would, but thats where then fun is
The latter 4x4 cossy used an MT75 variant, so thats the spines sorted and the toque capacity is more than enough. I havent got anything at home at the moment I can reference to get the diameter of the clutch of the cossy part, or indeed the standard 4x4 sierras and 2wd versions.
The Mk3 version of the transit got the MT75 at approx 89 "G" plate and yes both petrol and diesel had the same bell housings but the engines used adaptor plates to get the starters in different places amongst other reasons.
I'd love to see some images of this, it sounds a hoot.
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