Dealer just clearing fault codes, no investigation
Discussion
Would welcome people's thoughts on the following:
26 Plate VX Frontera GS Hybrid
Intermittent fault causing EML coming on (orange) and "Fault Engine Repair needed", car goes into limp mode and power dies considerably
Happens predominately on long runs, dual carriageway/motorway speeds, anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour of driving
Switching ignition off, waiting 30 seconds or so, then switch back on and fault is gone, no EML and car runs fine.
Took it to VX dealer, phone call a few hours later saying all done. When I asked what the issue was they just said "we've cleared the fault codes (found 2), haven't been able to replicate the fault on our 4-5 mile test route so all done.
Apparently as they are "historic" fault codes there is nothing more they can do, and they need a "current" code. They couldn't grasp the fact that it is only happening on long runs (A12, A1M) and then resets post switch off/on again then they aren't going to get a current code!
Surely a competent dealership/service certain would undertake more investigation as to what is actually causing the fault codes??
And yes I know, shouldn't have got the useless piece of cxxp in the first place, but 37 years of having VX cars does somewhat cloud the mind......
26 Plate VX Frontera GS Hybrid
Intermittent fault causing EML coming on (orange) and "Fault Engine Repair needed", car goes into limp mode and power dies considerably
Happens predominately on long runs, dual carriageway/motorway speeds, anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour of driving
Switching ignition off, waiting 30 seconds or so, then switch back on and fault is gone, no EML and car runs fine.
Took it to VX dealer, phone call a few hours later saying all done. When I asked what the issue was they just said "we've cleared the fault codes (found 2), haven't been able to replicate the fault on our 4-5 mile test route so all done.
Apparently as they are "historic" fault codes there is nothing more they can do, and they need a "current" code. They couldn't grasp the fact that it is only happening on long runs (A12, A1M) and then resets post switch off/on again then they aren't going to get a current code!
Surely a competent dealership/service certain would undertake more investigation as to what is actually causing the fault codes??
And yes I know, shouldn't have got the useless piece of cxxp in the first place, but 37 years of having VX cars does somewhat cloud the mind......
Even a "historic code" will be logged and registers, in the ECU. So yes the Main Dealer should have everything they need to at least know where to start looking.
Dare I say it, but if switching it on and off fixes it short term then it's not likely to be anything more then a something like a sensor playing.
Dare I say it, but if switching it on and off fixes it short term then it's not likely to be anything more then a something like a sensor playing.
Trevor555 said:
Is Vauxhall breakdown cover included in the warranty?
If so, when it happens again, stop, call them, and let them get the fault code whilst there.
You're correct to be annoyed, they should be fixing this for you.
That, or go to another dealer.
Yes it does have breakdown cover, and that was the Manager's suggestion "when it happens call breakdown and get them to read the code".If so, when it happens again, stop, call them, and let them get the fault code whilst there.
You're correct to be annoyed, they should be fixing this for you.
That, or go to another dealer.
Me "so stop on the side of the A12/A11 or hope to find somewhere safe, whilst praying someone doesn't run into the back of me, leave engine running and call breakdown?".......
Booked into another VX dealer next week, same dealer group but different branch (it's a company car/lease so has to be VX dealer) so hopefully they will actually do the work!
The dealership are hoping you'll give up and go away as they probably don't get paid enough to investigate faults under warranty (and possibly don't have many staff who are capable of doing that either)
Regardless of whether it's a simple issue, the car is nearly new, under warranty and needs fixing.
My suggestion would be to deliberately create the fault a few times by going for a few longer trips, logging the circumstances in which it occurs each time.
Then, present this evidence when you take it back in for them to "investigate". When you drop the car off, ask to speak to the dealer principal and start making noises about how disappointed you are with the car, how you might be forced to exercise your rights under the Consumer Rights Act and drop in the phrases "not of satisfactory quality" and "one opportunity to repair".
This will need to be at the dealer you bought the car from originally rather than anywhere else. You need to remain rational and polite, but they do need to know that you mean business and won't just go away if they don't fix the problem.
Regardless of whether it's a simple issue, the car is nearly new, under warranty and needs fixing.
My suggestion would be to deliberately create the fault a few times by going for a few longer trips, logging the circumstances in which it occurs each time.
Then, present this evidence when you take it back in for them to "investigate". When you drop the car off, ask to speak to the dealer principal and start making noises about how disappointed you are with the car, how you might be forced to exercise your rights under the Consumer Rights Act and drop in the phrases "not of satisfactory quality" and "one opportunity to repair".
This will need to be at the dealer you bought the car from originally rather than anywhere else. You need to remain rational and polite, but they do need to know that you mean business and won't just go away if they don't fix the problem.
MDT said:
Even a "historic code" will be logged and registers, in the ECU. So yes the Main Dealer should have everything they need to at least know where to start looking.
Dare I say it, but if switching it on and off fixes it short term then it's not likely to be anything more then a something like a sensor playing.
They even told me what one of the codes was, something not communicating with gearbox" Dare I say it, but if switching it on and off fixes it short term then it's not likely to be anything more then a something like a sensor playing.
Dodgy sensor was exactly my thought as well, based on the long run and speeds I thought something was getting too hot and sending an iffy signal.
Edit to add, case also raised with Vauxhall UK citing lack of dealership's investigation and "this is what the manufacture's guidance is"
Ian_SW said:
The dealership are hoping you'll give up and go away as they probably don't get paid enough to investigate faults under warranty (and possibly don't have many staff who are capable of doing that either)
Regardless of whether it's a simple issue, the car is nearly new, under warranty and needs fixing.
My suggestion would be to deliberately create the fault a few times by going for a few longer trips, logging the circumstances in which it occurs each time.
Then, present this evidence when you take it back in for them to "investigate". When you drop the car off, ask to speak to the dealer principal and start making noises about how disappointed you are with the car, how you might be forced to exercise your rights under the Consumer Rights Act and drop in the phrases "not of satisfactory quality" and "one opportunity to repair".
This will need to be at the dealer you bought the car from originally rather than anywhere else. You need to remain rational and polite, but they do need to know that you mean business and won't just go away if they don't fix the problem.
It's a company/lease car and the lease company aren't too impressed with being charged for the "work" that's been done, but aren't being overly helpful and just said to take it to another dealer, unfortunately all the VX dealers in this area are under the same group, I have warned them though that if it isn't fixed then I'll be rejecting.Regardless of whether it's a simple issue, the car is nearly new, under warranty and needs fixing.
My suggestion would be to deliberately create the fault a few times by going for a few longer trips, logging the circumstances in which it occurs each time.
Then, present this evidence when you take it back in for them to "investigate". When you drop the car off, ask to speak to the dealer principal and start making noises about how disappointed you are with the car, how you might be forced to exercise your rights under the Consumer Rights Act and drop in the phrases "not of satisfactory quality" and "one opportunity to repair".
This will need to be at the dealer you bought the car from originally rather than anywhere else. You need to remain rational and polite, but they do need to know that you mean business and won't just go away if they don't fix the problem.
I haven't specifically written down dates and times of the fault nor the specific circumstances so far but will do from now.
Dealership are well aware I'm not going away until this is resolved.
From a garage point view these are sometimes the worst to try and diagnose, yes you might have a fault code but that’s only the start of it, then when you want to start working through a process if the fault code has cleared you have nothing to work with. Yes you could say drive it but if you got an invoice for 8 hours labour for driving you car around and still no answer as to why you wouldn’t be happy.
Some codes don’t always leave something behind either. So while I’m not always a fan of main dealers sometimes you genuinely cannot fix something with nothing to go on.
Some codes don’t always leave something behind either. So while I’m not always a fan of main dealers sometimes you genuinely cannot fix something with nothing to go on.
stevemcs said:
From a garage point view these are sometimes the worst to try and diagnose, yes you might have a fault code but that s only the start of it, then when you want to start working through a process if the fault code has cleared you have nothing to work with. Yes you could say drive it but if you got an invoice for 8 hours labour for driving you car around and still no answer as to why you wouldn t be happy.
Some codes don t always leave something behind either. So while I m not always a fan of main dealers sometimes you genuinely cannot fix something with nothing to go on.
Whilst main dealers are often the worst....it has to be said, modern cars are even worse than any main dealer.Some codes don t always leave something behind either. So while I m not always a fan of main dealers sometimes you genuinely cannot fix something with nothing to go on.
Just because there is a code, symptom, etc etc doesn't mean it actually relates to the actual problem !!
It's crazy and the law makers should be coming down hard on manufacturers for this. There should be tough legislation to make vehicles easier to repair, not more difficult as they keep on doing
Information on diagnosis and repair should be more widely available, and all this s
t where some ecu control systems are locked down and extremely difficult to access with scan tools should also be outlawed.the whole ethos of EOBD when it was made mandatory, was to make the damn things easier to repair. Now it has totally flipped to make them harder.
stevieturbo said:
Whilst main dealers are often the worst....it has to be said, modern cars are even worse than any main dealer.
Just because there is a code, symptom, etc etc doesn't mean it actually relates to the actual problem !!
It's crazy and the law makers should be coming down hard on manufacturers for this. There should be tough legislation to make vehicles easier to repair, not more difficult as they keep on doing
Information on diagnosis and repair should be more widely available, and all this st where some ecu control systems are locked down and extremely difficult to access with scan tools should also be outlawed.
the whole ethos of EOBD when it was made mandatory, was to make the damn things easier to repair. Now it has totally flipped to make them harder.
There current trick is security access - so not only do you need to spend £2000 on diagnostics, then £500 to keep the software updated, you now have to spend £200 to get 12 months access to security software to reset a service light or wind back calipers on a mk8 golf …. New headlight in a merc, fit it, replace the module then another 30 minutes running through software to make it work.Just because there is a code, symptom, etc etc doesn't mean it actually relates to the actual problem !!
It's crazy and the law makers should be coming down hard on manufacturers for this. There should be tough legislation to make vehicles easier to repair, not more difficult as they keep on doing
Information on diagnosis and repair should be more widely available, and all this s
t where some ecu control systems are locked down and extremely difficult to access with scan tools should also be outlawed.the whole ethos of EOBD when it was made mandatory, was to make the damn things easier to repair. Now it has totally flipped to make them harder.
stevemcs said:
There current trick is security access - so not only do you need to spend £2000 on diagnostics, then £500 to keep the software updated, you now have to spend £200 to get 12 months access to security software to reset a service light or wind back calipers on a mk8 golf . New headlight in a merc, fit it, replace the module then another 30 minutes running through software to make it work.
Exactly, this security gateway st is unreal. And how the industry etc has not gone mental about it is also unreal. Even the insurance industry, motoring groups, AA etc should all be all over this as it helps nobody, especially the poor victim the car owner who can be hit with insane bills for fairly mundane repairs.It seems they are pushing to create write off's instead of ensuring cars can be repaired at a sensible and justifiable cost.
chewie2606 said:
It's a company/lease car and the lease company aren't too impressed with being charged for the "work" that's been done, but aren't being overly helpful and just said to take it to another dealer, unfortunately all the VX dealers in this area are under the same group, I have warned them though that if it isn't fixed then I'll be rejecting.
I haven't specifically written down dates and times of the fault nor the specific circumstances so far but will do from now.
Dealership are well aware I'm not going away until this is resolved.
I drove a company lease car for 70K miles and 2.5yrs with the engine management light on most of the time and an occasional misfire.I haven't specifically written down dates and times of the fault nor the specific circumstances so far but will do from now.
Dealership are well aware I'm not going away until this is resolved.
It spend several periods of weeks in the dealer only for the light to come back on within a day or two.
Neither the lease company or my company gave a toss as it never actually became undriveable. I only got rid it 6mths early as I found by chance that someone in head office had the same car and he'd got in someone's face and insisted the car went back.
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