Engine help for a newbie
Discussion
Hi,
My first post on pistonheads, so first up, HELLO!
My reason for posting is to ask for some advice on a recent engine / supplier problem I've had. I bought a 2nd hand Ford Puma engine, from a W-reg 2000my car, with ~35k on it. The engine was bought in good faith from a Puma specialist, rather than the more risky (I thought at the time) route of going through a breaker.
Having bought the engine I took it home (160 mile trip with a trailer...) and fitted it, only to discover when pushing the car forward in 5th gear, that the engine wouldn't turn past a certain point.:mad: This seemed odd as when turning the crank pulley before installing the engine, everything seem very smooth.
To keep this story as short as possible..... I alerted the supplier to the problem, and took the engine back for them to inspect (best option going on my understanding of consumer law :rolleyes:), and they agreed there was a problem, but believe I had turned the engine backwards, bending valves in the process - the VCT system is slightly quirky, and this is feasible from what I can ascertain. I knew I hadn't turned the engine backwards, so was more than happy to let them remove the head and inspect the valves.
Taking the head off revealed a straight set of valves, and with the head removed the crank turned freely once more. The supplier concluded that detached carbon deposits had caused the problem, so cleaned up the pistons. In doing so he apparently caught one of the rings and snapped it. Rather than replace the ring, he informs me that he replaced the piston "as he has loads on the shelf, but no rings...", which seems a rather peculiar action to me - why not take a ring from one of the new pistons sat on the shelf, thus saving effort (and cost!) elsewhere?:confused:
The fitment of the new piston, if one has been fitted has me slightly worried. In the first instance it seems highly illogical to fit a new piston, and if it really was necessary to fit a new piston, what was truly wrong with the old one?
The engine is now back together and I'm told it turns over with ease, and for good measure the crank bearings have been replaced.
What I would really appreciate, is any comments you might have on the above (condensed) story. I'm meant to be collecting the engine this evening, and want to do as much as I can to ensure I'm not being passed a dud, just to try and see the back of me!:byebye:
Many thanks all.:thumbup:
John.
My first post on pistonheads, so first up, HELLO!
My reason for posting is to ask for some advice on a recent engine / supplier problem I've had. I bought a 2nd hand Ford Puma engine, from a W-reg 2000my car, with ~35k on it. The engine was bought in good faith from a Puma specialist, rather than the more risky (I thought at the time) route of going through a breaker.
Having bought the engine I took it home (160 mile trip with a trailer...) and fitted it, only to discover when pushing the car forward in 5th gear, that the engine wouldn't turn past a certain point.:mad: This seemed odd as when turning the crank pulley before installing the engine, everything seem very smooth.
To keep this story as short as possible..... I alerted the supplier to the problem, and took the engine back for them to inspect (best option going on my understanding of consumer law :rolleyes:), and they agreed there was a problem, but believe I had turned the engine backwards, bending valves in the process - the VCT system is slightly quirky, and this is feasible from what I can ascertain. I knew I hadn't turned the engine backwards, so was more than happy to let them remove the head and inspect the valves.
Taking the head off revealed a straight set of valves, and with the head removed the crank turned freely once more. The supplier concluded that detached carbon deposits had caused the problem, so cleaned up the pistons. In doing so he apparently caught one of the rings and snapped it. Rather than replace the ring, he informs me that he replaced the piston "as he has loads on the shelf, but no rings...", which seems a rather peculiar action to me - why not take a ring from one of the new pistons sat on the shelf, thus saving effort (and cost!) elsewhere?:confused:
The fitment of the new piston, if one has been fitted has me slightly worried. In the first instance it seems highly illogical to fit a new piston, and if it really was necessary to fit a new piston, what was truly wrong with the old one?
The engine is now back together and I'm told it turns over with ease, and for good measure the crank bearings have been replaced.
What I would really appreciate, is any comments you might have on the above (condensed) story. I'm meant to be collecting the engine this evening, and want to do as much as I can to ensure I'm not being passed a dud, just to try and see the back of me!:byebye:
Many thanks all.:thumbup:
John.
Ask him to turn the engine over by hand so you both know it does.
It might be easier for him to put a new piston in if it has already got one with the rings fitted, save taking the new ones off etc etc. So thats not too much of a problem. I'm slightly suspect of the "oh I snapped a ring" story, how long had the engine been standing for? If for any length of time, the bores could of corroded and a ring caught on and snapped wedgines itself between piston and bore, seazing the engine.
It might be worth doing a compression test as soon as you can and if the cylinder with the replaced piston is significantly down on compression consider playing merry hell. If a ring has caught, scored a bore (or worse) and he has just done a slap dash piston replacement without so much as crack honing the bore I'd be concerned.
Regards
Iain
Defiantly get a compression test done as soon as you get the engine. Even better, go to his place and do it there and then (save's taking it back etc). I agree with Ian on his concern of how a ring got broken in the first place. If you're going to change the rings, a bore hone would have been advisable.
Thanks for the replies. In brief summary:
I collected the engine Thursday evening (refund by no means a possibility - you'll have to take that as read I'm afraid). Apparently there was nothing wrong with the bores / rings / pistons, it was just that having replaced all the rings, when working on the last of the 4 pistons he caught one the bottom thin rings of the oil scraper (with a Scotchbright cloth supposedly….Nevermind!). Rather than break into another set of rings, he popped a new piston and rod in, as he has loads sat on a shelf idle. All the bores were honed, the bottom-end totally rebuilt including thrust bearings and seals, and new cambelt and tensioner fitted.
I'm far from an expert in engine building, but assuming the above was done, and done well, I can't see any reason why there should be a problem. Is that a reasonable belief? Unfortunately a compression test wasn't done - "no means of spinning the engine up fast enough".
I did have the engine running briefly yesterday morning, and nothing untoward appeared to be happening. The breather pipe wasn't issuing any obvious gas, the exhaust was clean, and the only slight problem appeared to be that the engine was running quite rich. The reason for the rich mixture I can't sure of, but were I to point a finger, it would be at the MAF sensor, as it's second-hand, and thus it's not known whether it's conforming to spec' or not. [EDIT] In my haste to write the bulk of this post during a lunch break, I neglected to mention the engine was missing slightly, and didn't idle with the TPS connected. As stated above I can't be sure of the performance of the various sensors, and haven't replaced the plugs, so need to investigate further before drawing conclusions....it is a bit annoying though! [/EDIT].
You might be amused to learn that the company want to charge me £xxx for the remedial work done. I'm not going to elaborate any further than that, owing to the 'net being far too public an arena….
I’ve had to remove the engine for the moment, as the loom needed to run it, needs some modification to work 100% with the car the engine was bought for.
When I get some time over the next few weeks/months I'll try and get the loom sorted, and properly install the engine.
I'll let you know the score when I've managed to 100% confirm the quality of the remedial work.
Cheers,
John,
>> Edited by alackofspeed on Monday 17th October 13:42
>> Edited by alackofspeed on Monday 17th October 18:00
I collected the engine Thursday evening (refund by no means a possibility - you'll have to take that as read I'm afraid). Apparently there was nothing wrong with the bores / rings / pistons, it was just that having replaced all the rings, when working on the last of the 4 pistons he caught one the bottom thin rings of the oil scraper (with a Scotchbright cloth supposedly….Nevermind!). Rather than break into another set of rings, he popped a new piston and rod in, as he has loads sat on a shelf idle. All the bores were honed, the bottom-end totally rebuilt including thrust bearings and seals, and new cambelt and tensioner fitted.
I'm far from an expert in engine building, but assuming the above was done, and done well, I can't see any reason why there should be a problem. Is that a reasonable belief? Unfortunately a compression test wasn't done - "no means of spinning the engine up fast enough".
I did have the engine running briefly yesterday morning, and nothing untoward appeared to be happening. The breather pipe wasn't issuing any obvious gas, the exhaust was clean, and the only slight problem appeared to be that the engine was running quite rich. The reason for the rich mixture I can't sure of, but were I to point a finger, it would be at the MAF sensor, as it's second-hand, and thus it's not known whether it's conforming to spec' or not. [EDIT] In my haste to write the bulk of this post during a lunch break, I neglected to mention the engine was missing slightly, and didn't idle with the TPS connected. As stated above I can't be sure of the performance of the various sensors, and haven't replaced the plugs, so need to investigate further before drawing conclusions....it is a bit annoying though! [/EDIT].
You might be amused to learn that the company want to charge me £xxx for the remedial work done. I'm not going to elaborate any further than that, owing to the 'net being far too public an arena….
I’ve had to remove the engine for the moment, as the loom needed to run it, needs some modification to work 100% with the car the engine was bought for.
When I get some time over the next few weeks/months I'll try and get the loom sorted, and properly install the engine.
I'll let you know the score when I've managed to 100% confirm the quality of the remedial work.
Cheers,
John,
>> Edited by alackofspeed on Monday 17th October 13:42
>> Edited by alackofspeed on Monday 17th October 18:00
alackofspeed said:
You might be amused to learn that the company want to charge me £xxx for the remedial work done. I'm not going to elaborate any further than that, owing to the 'net being far too public an arena….
Wipe your arse on the invoice and return it, the equipment as orignally supplied was not fit for purpose, any Trading Standards officer will tell you that!
Regards
Iain
chassis 33 said:
You might be amused to learn that the company want to charge me £xxx for the remedial work done. I'm not going to elaborate any further than that, owing to the 'net being far too public an arena….
Wipe your arse on the invoice and return it, the equipment as orignally supplied was not fit for purpose, any Trading Standards officer will tell you that!
Regards
Iain
Now there's an opening for a new smiley! 
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