Transmission swaps for transverse engines

[TheOrgano]

I've been thinking recently. With all the BMW DCT/ZF 8HP swaps going on for longitudinal engines (with varying degrees of smoothness), that's fantastic. However, what I haven't heard of (because it may not be possible), is the same kind of upgrades for transverse engines. Like swapping a VW DSG into an older car.

I was thinking this because I love the original NSX, and got me thinking about that slow old 4-speed auto. Does anyone know of anyone doing swaps in transverse cars of any kind?

[stevieturbo]

TheOrgano said:

I've been thinking recently. With all the BMW DCT/ZF 8HP swaps going on for longitudinal engines (with varying degrees of smoothness), that's fantastic. However, what I haven't heard of (because it may not be possible), is the same kind of upgrades for transverse engines. Like swapping a VW DSG into an older car.

I was thinking this because I love the original NSX, and got me thinking about that slow old 4-speed auto. Does anyone know of anyone doing swaps in transverse cars of any kind?

DSG swaps are getting more common. Just depends what you want to do.

Control options vary though and are not always so simple.

DQ250 seems most common, a good balance of cost vs strength. DQ500 is stronger, but I think slightly harder to control for some reason, and is more commonly found on 4wd cars, but some are in fwd format.

Maxxecu probably a good ecu to use for control.

https://www.maxxecu.com/webhelp/settings-dsg.html

Although HTG is another, but there seem to be a lot of unhappy guys with that. Probably lots who are happy with it though

[Panamax]

stevieturbo said:

Control options vary though and are not always so simple.

This is usually the killer. Torque management, especially through shifts, needs the engine and transmission talking to each other.

If you buy a crate engine from US these days they come with a choice of ECU, either a self-contained one for manual transmission or a communicating one for auto, but even then you'll need a suitably matching auto transmission.

[stevieturbo]

Panamax said:

This is usually the killer. Torque management, especially through shifts, needs the engine and transmission talking to each other.

If you buy a crate engine from US these days they come with a choice of ECU, either a self-contained one for manual transmission or a communicating one for auto, but even then you'll need a suitably matching auto transmission.

That's not the big issue.

The main issue is that DSG, DCT, or even the ZF8HP ad indeed other dual clutch and auto boxes will have inbuilt controllers which are designed to work well and will have safety built in

A lot of the aftermarket controllers require rewiring of the mechatronics units inside, so that aftermarket controller then has perhaps more control options.
However that can be good control or bad control.

At least with the OEM TCU, it should prevent you from doing anything stupid, and be rigorously tested as such.

Aftermarket...well perhaps not so much. But it can let you run things harder, more clutch pressure etc if you need. But the aftermarket simply won't have all the resources to do the same level of R&D that the OEM will.

But people are swapping them, there are various control options

Maxx ECU and Syvecs offer CAN based control without internal modifications. HTG is standalone and requires full re-wiring of the internals. Although I think I did seem them mention a while back they had developed a controlled that would work with the OEM TCU, so that may well be available now.

As to who's is best, to offer a somewhat plug n play with the least work....no idea. Maxx might be the way to go there.

Obviously any system needs to integrate engine and box regardless, and fine tuned to suit each users needs

[Panamax]

stevieturbo said:

As to who's is best, to offer a somewhat plug n play with the least work....no idea.

There ya go! If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

[The Rotrex Kid]

You can buy DSG conversion kits for K20 engines. K20s go nicely in an NSX and a DSG would be a great gearbox in there.

[TheOrgano]

Thanks all. It's definitely an interesting topic. I've seen plenty of DCT/8HP longitudinal content out there, and for those at least, the best I've seen is CANTCU ( https://www.canformance.net/product/cantcu-transmi...). However, those are only for the Longitudinal engines.

The transverse options mentioned definitely merits further research and could one day possibly be an option for the NSX to replace that 4-speed.

The Rotrex Kid said:

You can buy DSG conversion kits for K20 engines. K20s go nicely in an NSX and a DSG would be a great gearbox in there.

No, just....no! I've seen someone has K20 swapped an NSX, though, but I think that's a manual

[TheOrgano]

I dropped an email to the CANTCU people to ask about DSG support. They do have it on the agenda but progress is slow as they're still focusing on 8HP stuff. Will definitely keep my eyes on that.

[stevieturbo]

TheOrgano said:

I dropped an email to the CANTCU people to ask about DSG support. They do have it on the agenda but progress is slow as they're still focusing on 8HP stuff. Will definitely keep my eyes on that.

CANTCU will be limited to a few ecu's etc and specific transmissions. At least it is with 8HP's


Ultimately if you can use a VAG engine/trans combo, it can make things a bit more simple all round, as one way or another you could just use the OEM ecu.

[bobthemonkey]

Komo Tec do a DSG kit for the transverse Toyota V6 found in recent Lotus products.

There is a stray YouTube video of someone who claims to offer a Honda C30 to DSG adapter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9jRlgbgxUw

Would seem sacrilegious to do the a manual NSX, but could certainly see the appeal of doing to a 4 speed auto.

No first hand experience but would probably start with Syvecs from an ECU perspective. Not sure if he is still about but their founder was a big PH user back in the day, so may still be lurking.

Edited by bobthemonkey on Thursday 3rd October 21:43

[stevieturbo]

bobthemonkey said:

Komo Tec do a DSG kit for the transverse Toyota V6 found in recent Lotus products.

There is a stray YouTube video of someone who claims to offer a Honda C30 to DSG adapter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9jRlgbgxUw

Would seem sacrilegious to do the a manual NSX, but could certainly see the appeal of doing to a 4 speed auto.

No first hand experience but would probably start with Syvecs from an ECU perspective. Not sure if he is still about but their founder was a big PH user back in the day, so may still be lurking.

Edited by bobthemonkey on Thursday 3rd October 21:43

Syvecs relies on custom code from a guy in the Netherlands for the DSG stuff. It does seem documentation and support can be a bit of a struggle, but it does work.

Of course, all of this depends whether you want or need a full control package, or are just looking to control the gearbox only as you already have engine control in hand.