Car cutting out

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Discussion

Mojooo

Original Poster:

13,022 posts

187 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
Any thoughts on this?

2013 VW Golf Petrol Manual

Car giving out black smoke


Took it to 1 garage who replaced plugs but couldn't diagnose

Took it to a VW/Skoda specialist but they couldn't diagnose

Took it to VW main dealer - they have replaced injectors which has stopped the smoke but the car cuts out unless you keep your foot on the accelerator (on startup).

VW basically saying they are not sure what it is but car can be kept there and they will look at it when they can but basically doesn't look like they can do much. The car has been with them for weeks. They also mentioned another car they have in has the same problem.

Spoke to another garage next door to VW and they said if the car is coming on and cutting out its possibly an electrical problem and gave the details of an auto electrician to contact

Due to the large bill at VW its almost a case of do we scrap the car.

Final shot may be to take it to an auto electrician and hope for the best. It does perhaps make sense it could be an electric problem that has been missed by 3 mechanics.

Does anyone have any insight as to what it might be?

Krikkit

26,997 posts

188 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
Which engine and model, specifically, is it?

I assume the dealer are out of ideas because there's no easy fault codes, could be a few things like the low or high pressure fuel pump, pressure regulator, could be electronic (rail pressure sensor if there is one), but to make any progress you'll need a proper mechanic and not a lazy arse to look at it.

trevalvole

1,270 posts

40 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
Which engine and model, specifically, is it?
And as 2013 was a change-over year for some engines e.g. the 1.4TSI, are there any more details like is it a cam chain or belt engine?

TooLateForAName

4,839 posts

191 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
change the air filter.

Sounds like fuelling issues, or at least air/fuel balance. what were the fuel trim figures like? are the injectors coded?
if no error codes then look at live data for sensors like maf/lambda etc.

Olivergt

1,649 posts

88 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
More questions? Just bear in mind the more information you can provide the more likely people can come up with an answer.

When did it start kicking out black smoke? Was this all of a sudden or has it been building up slowly?

Does it only cut out when it's cold, you mention on startup, so once started, after a while will it idle ok?

Black smoke from a petrol engine generally indicates fuel/air ratio is wrong, so either not enough air (blocked air filter) or too much fuel?

Mojooo

Original Poster:

13,022 posts

187 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
Volkswagen Golf Hatchback 1.4 TSI Bluemotion Tech SE 5d 2013/63

Its my brothers car he says

The car started jerking and was revving itself
The following day he put fuel in and the car started putting out black smoke so he stopped using it

VW say they have resolved the black smoke (they have installed 4 fuel injectors I believe). They say that the car will start but you need to keep your foot on the gas to keep the temp up otherwise it stalls

The link above suggests it could be a mechanical or electrical problem.

Surely the garages would have checked the air filter?

hersh

365 posts

74 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
Hi
Can't really help, the above posts are good places to start
First rule on fault finding though is to never assume anything
If you don't know for an absolutely certainty then check it yourself, or get someone you trust
Best of luck

samoht

6,290 posts

153 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all

On 90s cars, needing to apply throttle to get it to start and idle would be a sign of the air flow meter playing up.


Robertb

2,092 posts

245 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
As the problem started after refuelling, Could it be dodgy fuel?

Mojooo

Original Poster:

13,022 posts

187 months

Wednesday 29th May
quotequote all
Robertb said:
As the problem started after refuelling, Could it be dodgy fuel?
The first garage looked into that but apparently not.......

Also dodgy fuel doesn't cause black smoke?


Olivergt

1,649 posts

88 months

Thursday 30th May
quotequote all
There are a couple of suggestions on here

https://vwtuning.co/vw-1-4-tsi-engine-problems/

Basically ignition coils and O2 sensors, I would have thought though that if they were bad you would get the EML on and a relevant code.

Is it showing any codes at the moment? If so what are they?

Mojooo

Original Poster:

13,022 posts

187 months

Thursday 30th May
quotequote all
Olivergt said:
There are a couple of suggestions on here

https://vwtuning.co/vw-1-4-tsi-engine-problems/

Basically ignition coils and O2 sensors, I would have thought though that if they were bad you would get the EML on and a relevant code.

Is it showing any codes at the moment? If so what are they?
Not sure
I briefly spoke to the VW man yesterday and he didn't mention any codes - I would have thought they would have tried to fix anything with a code on it.

stevieturbo

17,530 posts

254 months

Thursday 30th May
quotequote all
Black smoke makes little sense on a petrol car. And even less sense on a direct injection engine.

Surely there is some history to this problem ? seems unlikely one day it would be fine, then suddenly it's that bad ?

Really you need to find a competent garage, which do seem more than a rarity these days.

kylos27

202 posts

105 months

Thursday 30th May
quotequote all
Throttle body,egr ?

SystemOfAFrown

59 posts

27 months

Friday 31st May
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
Black smoke makes little sense on a petrol car.
It's a pretty classic sign of overfueling on a petrol car.

stevieturbo

17,530 posts

254 months

Saturday 1st June
quotequote all
SystemOfAFrown said:
It's a pretty classic sign of overfueling on a petrol car.
Been building and tuning cars for 30+ years, and never had it. Even with the richest crudely setup carburettors.

On a direct injection car with cat etc etc.....I would think it should be all but impossible for almost any fuel related smoke of any colour

The only time I've ever had anything remotely close to blackness, was when using some toluene in the fuel. It was just filthy though



chrisch77

700 posts

82 months

Saturday 1st June
quotequote all
If it needs throttle to keep it running until warm, then it could be something as simple as a faulty coolant temperature sensor making the ECU think the engine is already warm and leaning off the fuelling. Any proper mechanic should be able to check this by looking at live data on a diagnostic machine.

SystemOfAFrown

59 posts

27 months

Monday 3rd June
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
Been building and tuning cars for 30+ years, and never had it. Even with the richest crudely setup carburettors.

On a direct injection car with cat etc etc.....I would think it should be all but impossible for almost any fuel related smoke of any colour

The only time I've ever had anything remotely close to blackness, was when using some toluene in the fuel. It was just filthy though
I'm quite surprised by this, black smoke on hard acceleration is a very typical sign of an overly rich mixture on a petrol engine. DI may well be less prone to this, but I've seen it numerous times on carburettor and port injection engines. It does need to be significantly rich to cause this though.

stevieturbo

17,530 posts

254 months

Monday 3rd June
quotequote all
SystemOfAFrown said:
I'm quite surprised by this, black smoke on hard acceleration is a very typical sign of an overly rich mixture on a petrol engine. DI may well be less prone to this, but I've seen it numerous times on carburettor and port injection engines. It does need to be significantly rich to cause this though.
Even down as low as most widebands will read, never had smoke. So it would need to be utterly diabolically insanely rich for any chances of it to happen
So rich it would be running like a complete pig, and on a modern car, definitely destroying the catalytic converter.