Vauxhall Combo clutch issue advice

[mchurch50]

Advice needed for Combo, the plastic rod on the slave cylinder broke by the clutch pedal. yes a pain aas the cylinder needs to be replaced, garage couldn't get non oem so £270! Cant be helped! But this is where it gets worse. They can't get a pedal working, I know the can be a pain to bleed, But they said the cheapest option to start with is (i think this is what it was called) actuator, still can't get the pedal working, now they want to remove bell housing to check cylinder there, which i simply cant afford so i have to pay for all work done and tow van away, the clutch was working fine i pulled up at the supermarket went back started up, started van up, clutch pedal crunched to the floor, it may have gone forward a bit as if it stalled?
Any advice, i need to speak to garage today,
And need to know what I am talking about,
My main issue is, the system was working no loss of fluid, if the bell housing cylinder was broke it would leak or seize, if it seized that would cause back pressure causing plastic rod to break, but it would surely still have a pedal but a stiff pedal after bleeding? If it was leaking there would have been loss of fluid
Thank you
Mark.

[sunbeam alpine]

If something has jammed inside the bell housing, it will cause the system to break at the weakest point, which could well be the plastic part you mention.

Unfortunately the only possibility may well be to open it up, either at this garage or another.

[GreenV8S]

External (ie non-concentric) clutch slaves usually use a level/pivot mechanism to transfer the motion to the clutch bearing. It isn't particularly unusual for the pivot to wear out. This will typically mean you can no longer release the clutch. A worn slave could also jam in position. A worn release bearing can also jam. If anything is jammed then it isn't too surprising that the weakest link broke and replacing that didn't solve the underlying problem. It's also not too surprising that the underlying problem wasn't apparent until the broken part was replaced.

[stevieturbo]

mchurch50 said:

Advice needed for Combo, the plastic rod on the slave cylinder broke by the clutch pedal. yes a pain aas the cylinder needs to be replaced, garage couldn't get non oem so £270! Cant be helped! But this is where it gets worse. They can't get a pedal working, I know the can be a pain to bleed, But they said the cheapest option to start with is (i think this is what it was called) actuator, still can't get the pedal working, now they want to remove bell housing to check cylinder there, which i simply cant afford so i have to pay for all work done and tow van away, the clutch was working fine i pulled up at the supermarket went back started up, started van up, clutch pedal crunched to the floor, it may have gone forward a bit as if it stalled?
Any advice, i need to speak to garage today,
And need to know what I am talking about,
My main issue is, the system was working no loss of fluid, if the bell housing cylinder was broke it would leak or seize, if it seized that would cause back pressure causing plastic rod to break, but it would surely still have a pedal but a stiff pedal after bleeding? If it was leaking there would have been loss of fluid
Thank you
Mark.

elaborate as to exactly which Combo ? And it's hard to follow.

The slave cylinder is at or in the gearbox/bellhousing, not the pedal ? Surely you mean master cylinder ?

So the actuating rod from pedal to master has broken ? That would be unusual.

And now they have actually replaced this, but are unable to bleed the hydraulics ?

Really, it shouldn't be that hard. Some can be annoying, but generally not that hard. No doubt they'll probably try and blame the new master cylinder ?

Have you any sort of a pedal at all throughout this ? after they fitted the new master/rod ? FFS, even if they filled the reservoir and left it with the bleed nipple open for a few hours, usually that will get a good starting point for bleeding without any effort.
If this is an actual garage and they don't know how to bleed a clutch.....it's hard to give advise.

[mchurch50]

Thanks so much everyone, I'm just going to get it home SORN and learn the hard way, Yes i think i dont have the correct name for the correct parts,. 2006 1.3 cdti combo. the AA man said the slave cylinder that the pedal operates needs replacing as the rod had broke, they said they have fluid going in and out no air lock but cant get a pedal working, sadly it went to a local tyre brake place, so Im guessing there following handbooks not thinking out of the box,

Edited by mchurch50 on Monday 27th November 17:55

[Bainbridge]

Do you know if the clutch has ever been replaced on this car?

When the clutch wears out, it's common practice to change the slave cylinder while the bell housing is removed. This leaves the master cylinder (the cylinder attached to the pedal) as the only original working part of the clutch.

So, if this is the case and the master cylinder has just been replaced, I'd suspect an unbled system and investigate that fully before opening the bell housing.

This is a difficult system to bleed. I used a pressure bleed system and it took a few goes.

[stevieturbo]

mchurch50 said:

Thanks so much everyone, I'm just going to get it home SORN and learn the hard way, Yes i think i dont have the correct name for the correct parts,. 2006 1.3 cdti combo. the AA man said the slave cylinder that the pedal operates needs replacing as the rod had broke, they said they have fluid going in and out no air lock but cant get a pedal working, sadly it went to a local tyre brake place, so Im guessing there following handbooks not thinking out of the box,

Edited by mchurch50 on Monday 27th November 17:55

AA man is wrong.

Master cylinder is at the pedal. This would have a short actuating rod from pedal to master.

Slave cylinder is a concentric slave cylinder, so inside the bellhousing of the gearbox, so not easily visible. There is no rod of any kind there.

It does sound like they have possibly changed the master cylinder and simply cannot get the system bled.

It should be straightforward stuff. There is no need to think out of the box.

Here's an example of another Vauxhall getting the clutch master cylinder replaced.. Same setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52cfvgqQtFA

Given parts have been changed, have you seen the actual broken part ?

eg. part seems readily available

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/car-brands/spare-...

[mchurch50]

Thank you all ever so much.

[richhead]

If its a new master cylinder, they can sometimes be abit of a sod to bleed, as the cylinder often isnt much higher than the gearbox, maybe worth trying to bleed it yourself, there are various different ways to try, ofter a two man job, but for the cost of a litre of brake fluid, worth a try even if you have no mechanical skills.

[bearman68]

I've had problems with these with the 'anti jump valve' for want of a better word. This is the inch and 1/2 diameter disc thing an the bulkhead, and stops the hydraulics self destructing if your foot slips off the foot pedal.
So, I've frequently removed these, and replaced it with a bit of pipe. I'm sure Vauxhall will be furious, but on the other hand they should make a decent clutch then.
I have also occasionally drilled (I know) a 5mm hole at the lowest part of the bell housing. If fluid pours out of the hole, you have to remove the gearbox for a look, because the concentric slave is dead.

After that, pressure bleed then, and they should be fine. I've managed to get all mine going after the 2 steps above.

[mchurch50]

've had problems with these with the 'anti jump valve' for want of a better word. This is the inch and 1/2 diameter disc thing an the bulkhead, and stops the hydraulics self destructing if your foot slips off the foot pedal.
Very interested to know about anti jump valve, if the pedal broke through fatigue that's a possibility

Also the video showing the vectra master cylinder change, very useful wish it took longer, now I've paid!
But he kept pressure on pedal with extension bar, most I've read is lift pedal away from the push rod,

So are both methods of bleeding ok with the combo? Hopefully getting it back at the weekend. And is the anti jump valve only found in later models?
Thank you

Edited to make more sense!

Edited by mchurch50 on Thursday 30th November 19:47

[stevieturbo]

mchurch50 said:

've had problems with these with the 'anti jump valve' for want of a better word. This is the inch and 1/2 diameter disc thing an the bulkhead, and stops the hydraulics self destructing if your foot slips off the foot pedal.
Very interested to know about anti jump valve, if the pedal broke through fatigue that's a possibility

Also the video showing the vectra master cylinder change, very useful wish it took longer, now I've paid!
But he kept pressure on pedal with extension bar, most I've read is lift pedal away from pedal?
Thank you

What are you saying or asking ?

And pretty sure the Vauxhall does not have the disc/valve Bearman is referring to

[bearman68]

stevieturbo said:

What are you saying or asking ?

And pretty sure the Vauxhall does not have the disc/valve Bearman is referring to

Pretty sure it does.

IIRC it's immediately downstream of the master cylinder (On an Astra anyway)

I've had all the bolts come loose on the subframe on the Combo as well.

[stevieturbo]

bearman68 said:

Pretty sure it does.

IIRC it's immediately downstream of the master cylinder (On an Astra anyway)

I've had all the bolts come loose on the subframe on the Combo as well.

Never had such problems with mine in well over 700k of motoring. Great wee vans....the 1.7 cdti, I wouldn't trust the 1.3

Although the subframes do rust quite a bit

[mchurch50]

Minor Update, I thought i was getting my van back today, i was meant to get it yesterday but work got in the way, But the plan was, i paid for work that was done, please out the key on drivers sun visor, push the passenger door knob to lock then shut drivers door, i only have one key but kept the rear security lock key i i needed tools, so they gained me access to the front, doesn't seem like they followed them instructions very well! Glad it was a friend who was helping not a company i would have paid for.
But anyway the minor update, the pedal felt the same as it did with no contact to the master cylinder, the rod is being moved, but they have stated it cant be bleed, but the pedal seems odd it sort of clunks it way down not a smoove movement of pedal, but that was all within 10 minutes as i had my grumpy 6 year old waiting! When i get it home is there anything that is a normal wear and tear on pedals?
Many thanks
Mark..

[stevieturbo]

mchurch50 said:

Minor Update, I thought i was getting my van back today, i was meant to get it yesterday but work got in the way, But the plan was, i paid for work that was done, please out the key on drivers sun visor, push the passenger door knob to lock then shut drivers door, i only have one key but kept the rear security lock key i i needed tools, so they gained me access to the front, doesn't seem like they followed them instructions very well! Glad it was a friend who was helping not a company i would have paid for.
But anyway the minor update, the pedal felt the same as it did with no contact to the master cylinder, the rod is being moved, but they have stated it cant be bleed, but the pedal seems odd it sort of clunks it way down not a smoove movement of pedal, but that was all within 10 minutes as i had my grumpy 6 year old waiting! When i get it home is there anything that is a normal wear and tear on pedals?
Many thanks
Mark..

I would suggest getting more keys. New key will also need programmed to the car.

And it sounds like they're idiots who cannot perform the very simple task of bleeding the clutch.

As said earlier, no doubt they'll try and blame a faulty new master cylinder next. As to where you go from here......hard to say, awkward situation all round.

Without seeing what they're actually doing ( or not doing ) or if they have any knowledge or experience at all working at cars, it's just hard to help. As said, this is very basic stuff.



A video of a reverse bleeding option. I prefer to use a large syringe with clear tube. Oil can and black tube is not a great option.

Syringe lets you push or pull fluid and you can see air bubbles in the pipe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJptKGmMlT4

[mchurch50]

Thanks Stevieturbo.
I'm getting the van home, and sorn it, and work on it over the winter ready for whens its needed for spring to get my gardening trailer about, time i got the spanners out myself again! I think there just being silly buggers because i wasn't a walk over and questioned there workmanship, but a dirty glove a screw and a screw tab also the paper left on drivers footwell. total disrespect
But I'm so glad I have found so much helpful advice and video clips here, Its a new world and so much easier to get advice, just because you can't do something doesn't mean it cant be done, just because a manual isn't saying so, click online there are dozens i not hundreds of people who have overcome problems and shared there experience.

[stevieturbo]

There are multiple bleeding options.

From gravity, to pumping/vacuum style ( syringe allows both ) etc etc

eg. Syringe. Although when sucking with the syringe, you will see more air bubbles, as some air is pulled from the threads of the bleed nipple. So it may be bled, but appear still air. Either way a final pedal bleed may be needed regardless of any method. But for that you need to get most of the air out in the first place to get a pedal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra1JcFh4ZLg

Gravity. Although I would say he does seem to have allowed a huge amount of fluid through. And as you see he sealed around the nipple threads, although that's to prevent some fluid leakage there. Not preventing air moving as I mentioned when using a vac/syringe method. But it's a good idea. I often put ptfe tape around the nipple threads to prevent it, but some grease or similar will be fine too.
If doing gravity, it can take time and keep an eye to make sure you do not let the main reservoir run dry. It's a shared reservoir for brakes and clutch, but the clutch section is sort of segregated so can run dry but you'll still see fluid in the braking side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsaO_Wmpj9M


The Vauxhall clutch setup is a little odd compared to brakes and a lot of other clutches, in that the slave cylinder is a dead end, and you actually bleed before the slave, rather than more normal, directly at the slave.
Little odds though really.
the plastic nipple might take a few turns before fluid or air moves. Again, syringe is great for this, as you can push/pull to test that the circuit is fully open and able to move fluid.

[lisas101]

`i have a problem with a combo van 07 the clutch pressure just got lower and lower-- difficult to get 1st and reverse gears the other day i tried to bleed the system-- opened the bleed screw and nothing came out i then used a vac pump on the nipple this only got a few drops out and then nothing the pedal has now lost what pressure it did have i then tried a syringe to back feed it though the nipple i cant get any fluid in or out with the syringe i have also tried to gravity feed feed the system leaving the bleed screw open for a few hours but still no fluid going in or coming out this did have a new master cylinder about 18 months ago from luk-the old one did leak a bit on the van floor since the new one was fitted it it has never felt quite right and did not bleed very well that time as i remember any ideas on this ,

[TwinKam]

Ensure that the pedal/ master cylinder is fully back against its stop; as soon as there is any movement away from its rest position it closes off the inlet port from the reservoir, and then you wouldn't be able to push or pull fluid either way, and of course the gravity method wouldn't work either.