Battery or alternator?

Battery or alternator?

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boyse7en

Original Poster:

7,120 posts

172 months

Wednesday 9th August 2023
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My Honda is having issues starting.

Will start fine for a week or so, then suddenly it will fail to turn over. So today, wife drove from home to sports club (roughly 25 mins drive), club to friend's house (15 mins) and then the car wouldn't start. Will start instantly if given a boost off another car.

Recharge battery and it will be OK for a few more days but will then fail to start again.

If it is the alternator i'd have thought it would go flat quicker than that - currently seem to get around 15-or-so starts out of it.
But if it is the battery, i wouldn't expect it to hold a charge for a couple of days and then start...

Caddyshack

11,838 posts

213 months

Wednesday 9th August 2023
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Simple test: get a multimeter and see what voltage the battery is at rest with nothing turned on. It should be about 11v ish. If it’s below then prob battery replace. Batteries often do not last 5 yrs now.

The other test is start car and now test voltage, it should be around 14v… if it’s below then good chance the alternator is faulty.

E-bmw

9,976 posts

159 months

Wednesday 9th August 2023
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Caddyshack said:
Simple test: get a multimeter and see what voltage the battery is at rest with nothing turned on. It should be about 11v ish. If it’s below then prob battery replace. Batteries often do not last 5 yrs now.

The other test is start car and now test voltage, it should be around 14v… if it’s below then good chance the alternator is faulty.
Agree with the tests but NOT the first reading.

If it is 11v the battery is flatter than a flat thing that has been sat on by an Elephant & run over by a herd of Wildebeest.

A good battery fully charged is around 12.6 volts, for every 0.1 volt below that it has lost around 15% of its charge.

OP.
Get a multimeter & test as above & see what you find.

However as what you are describing sounds like it is intermittent I would suggest the likely cause is a poor/loose/dirty connection on the main supply cables between the battery/alternator/chassis/main fuses/starter.

The only way to sort them out is to take them all off one at a time, clean & refit making sure they are tight & taking care not to short out 12v to chassis anywhere along the way.

Panamax

5,102 posts

41 months

Wednesday 9th August 2023
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Caddyshack said:
Simple test: get a multimeter and see what voltage the battery is at rest with nothing turned on. It should be about 11v ish.
You need to see 12.4v or more from a good battery. (A new battery, fully charged will be 12.6v)

11v is completely knackered.

paintman

7,765 posts

197 months

boyse7en

Original Poster:

7,120 posts

172 months

Thursday 10th August 2023
quotequote all
Jump started car last night and drove it home (approx 30 minutes) and checked battery voltage - showing 12.6V on my multimeter.
Put it on charge overnight and checked again this morning and it was 12.75V.

Alternator is obviously providing at least some charge as the headlights didn't fade over the 30 minute journey, and the car restarted once it was home.

Will check voltage at the battery with car running tonight when i get home

Panamax

5,102 posts

41 months

Thursday 10th August 2023
quotequote all
boyse7en said:
Jump started car last night and drove it home (approx 30 minutes) and checked battery voltage - showing 12.6V on my multimeter.
Put it on charge overnight and checked again this morning and it was 12.75V.
You need to use the car or charge the battery and then leave it to stand overnight. Check the voltage next morning to get a genuine reading.

Those voltages seem encouraging at face value but unless the battery has been left several hours to settle they won't be reliable. When a battery has just come off an alternator or charger it is still carrying some of that ritzy charging voltage as opposed to its own steady state voltage.

E-bmw

9,976 posts

159 months

Thursday 10th August 2023
quotequote all
Panamax said:
boyse7en said:
Jump started car last night and drove it home (approx 30 minutes) and checked battery voltage - showing 12.6V on my multimeter.
Put it on charge overnight and checked again this morning and it was 12.75V.
You need to use the car or charge the battery and then leave it to stand overnight. Check the voltage next morning to get a genuine reading.

Those voltages seem encouraging at face value but unless the battery has been left several hours to settle they won't be reliable. When a battery has just come off an alternator or charger it is still carrying some of that ritzy charging voltage as opposed to its own steady state voltage.
Alternatively, you could just turn the headlights on for 30 sec without starting the engine, then test.

stevieturbo

17,534 posts

254 months

Thursday 10th August 2023
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Why not just check the voltage when it's running ?

Why are you only checking with the engine off ?

boyse7en

Original Poster:

7,120 posts

172 months

Friday 11th August 2023
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Checked again this morning.

So yesterday after charging was 12.6v
Drove car around doing normal day stuff. It was started five times during the day. Did about 35 miles.

This morning, battery voltage is 12.2v
Car started fine
Voltage with engine running is 14.2v


HealeyV8

432 posts

85 months

Friday 11th August 2023
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Sounds like you might have a parasitic draw. Google this and it'll show you how to test with multimeter

annodomini2

6,913 posts

258 months

Friday 11th August 2023
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HealeyV8 said:
Sounds like you might have a parasitic draw. Google this and it'll show you how to test with multimeter
This!

Something electronic is likely not turning off.

tr7v8

7,306 posts

235 months

Friday 11th August 2023
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Had this on both my Granada & my Jeep. The battery is knackered, it may NOT show on a discharge test. Or possibly a starter issue with a dead spot..

annodomini2

6,913 posts

258 months

Friday 11th August 2023
quotequote all
tr7v8 said:
Had this on both my Granada & my Jeep. The battery is knackered, it may NOT show on a discharge test. Or possibly a starter issue with a dead spot..
If the battery was toast, recharge wouldn't fix it.

E-bmw

9,976 posts

159 months

Friday 11th August 2023
quotequote all
annodomini2 said:
tr7v8 said:
Had this on both my Granada & my Jeep. The battery is knackered, it may NOT show on a discharge test. Or possibly a starter issue with a dead spot..
If the battery was toast, recharge wouldn't fix it.
It would if it was not holding charge well due to being on the way out, but parasitic draw is still obviously the next thing to look into.

boyse7en

Original Poster:

7,120 posts

172 months

Saturday 12th August 2023
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If it was a parasitic draw problem, wouldn't it be worse after the car had been sat overnight?
It seems to start ok in the morning after sitting for 12+ hours, it fails after 3-4 starts during the day when it has only been sat for an hour or two

annodomini2

6,913 posts

258 months

Sunday 13th August 2023
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boyse7en said:
If it was a parasitic draw problem, wouldn't it be worse after the car had been sat overnight?
It seems to start ok in the morning after sitting for 12+ hours, it fails after 3-4 starts during the day when it has only been sat for an hour or two
That would suggest a failing battery, short journeys I assume?

boyse7en

Original Poster:

7,120 posts

172 months

Tuesday 15th August 2023
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Additional query...

Buying a new battery.

OE spec is an 096 battery, 77Ah with 780A

Tanya batteries recommends an EFB battery for longer life and "more power", but it is only 70Ah and 600A. Will it do?

Panamax

5,102 posts

41 months

Tuesday 15th August 2023
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boyse7en said:
This morning, battery voltage is 12.2v
My first suspicion is weak battery. 12.2v is about 50% knackered.

If it was my car I'd put a new battery in it right now. As the weather cools its performance will get worse and worse.