Bent conrod?

[AlexC1981]

Hi All,

I drove through a ford and sucked in some water. Car cut out (Megane 1.6 dCi) and the air filter got soaked.

I gave it a day to dry out, then removed the glow plugs to try to release the water and tried the starter, but it wouldn't turn over.

I had it towed to a garage who were able to start it, but they have recommended taking it to a garage that can do more in depth engine work. It was putting out a lot of smoke from the exhaust when I first collected it, but that seems to have gone now after a 15 minute drive.

It was stuttering under throttle, like it is skipping a beat, and I think there is a new note/knock coming from it. The stuttering seemed to be around 1000-3000rpm.

I suppose what I am asking is, will this almost certainly be a very expensive repair that I should claim on my insurance? Or is it worth going to the new garage first and paying for an investigation?

I don't think the first garage did anything besides get it started. They didn't charge me anything.

Thanks,

[stevieturbo]

I see no reason whatsoever why insurance should pay for someone who deliberately chose to drive into deep water.

Obviously there will be lots of smoke, you filled the car/engine/exhaust up with water.

But you aren't particularly clear whether the car drove through and on, whether it stopped in the river, or something else ?

And when you pulled the glow plugs out you say it would not turn over....was this on the starter ? by hand ? other ? Would it turn either direction ?

Just not enough info.

But of course driving into deep water is very silly and will rarely have a good and cheap outcome. What is the vehicle worth ?

[AlexC1981]

Thanks for the reply. I don't know if the insurance will pay for it, I've never claimed before. I flagged a couple of cars, but at least four other normal hatchback/saloon type cars drove through it without issue.

The car stopped immediately after getting through the ford.

It was with the starter.

Similar models are up for £4k-£5k. I was thinking about part exchanging it soon. Probably wouldnt get much in exchange. Maybe £3k. Insurance policy says £5k.

[Maxdecel]

AlexC1981 said:

I flagged a couple of cars, but at least four other normal hatchback/saloon type cars drove through it without issue.

The car stopped immediately after getting through the ford.

But not the same car, I had a Peugeot where the filter container was fitted very low in the engine compartment but the intake was above the grille badge. Peugeot in their wisdom had installed a 2mm hole in the side of the container which on encountering a depth of water you would think acceptable ....wasn't ! Vacuum inside the container pulled it straight in, brilliant.
A compression test should confirm any problem but it's less straight forward being a diesel.
As per your title

the usual outcome of hyrdolock or worse as you can imagine.

[AlexC1981]

Perhaps those who went through were locals and were aware of what level was safe for their cars. The sign at the entrance indicated it was at 0.4m. The recover truck driver said they pull loads out as it gets deeper in the middle.

Oh well, no point crying over it. Lesson learnt. I just need to decide what to do now.

If I report it to the insurance company and they don't pay out, then I'm in for a double whammy in that they will record it as an incident on my record, leading to higher insurance, whilst being out of pocket for the repair. At least I have NCB protection on my policy.

[stevieturbo]

AlexC1981 said:

Thanks for the reply. I don't know if the insurance will pay for it, I've never claimed before. I flagged a couple of cars, but at least four other normal hatchback/saloon type cars drove through it without issue.

The car stopped immediately after getting through the ford.

It was with the starter.

Similar models are up for £4k-£5k. I was thinking about part exchanging it soon. Probably wouldnt get much in exchange. Maybe £3k. Insurance policy says £5k.

Really, as most garages are less than competent, finding a good one to diagnose properly, then pay them, then consider any repair.....really it is highly likely to be a road to nowhere except spending money.
You might find a unicorn, and they might tell you the damage is minor.....but unicorns are only just slightly more rare than competent technicians.

You could just opt to buy another engine and fit it, but then you'd also need to be sure that there has been no major water ingress into the electricals, which even if not apparent now, could raise it's head further down the line. Second hand engines would be plentiful I'd imagine though.

It's hard to see a positive outcome from the information given. And with a relatively low value car, and potential, 2-3k repair.....even that route could be a gamble, as so many garages fail to deliver on such work leaving the customer in a worse place.
That said, the car probably has almost no value, maybe a few hundred quid in its current state. If you're very lucky, maybe get a used engine, throw it in, try and check all wiring and electronics as you go, and you might be able to get away with say £1500 or so. But there are just a lot of unknowns

I would hope insurance does not pay up, we pay high enough premiums without insurance paying out for deliberate acts, that is definitely not an accident.


Are there many warning lights on the dash ? Does that seem to be behaving normally ? ie lots due to water damage electrically ? Any fault codes registered with any of the cars modules ?

[AlexC1981]

There are no warning lights on the dash, all appeared normal during the 15 minute drive today, apart from the symptoms I described in my first post. I don't have a diagnostic machine.

The garage might have cleared them all as every light, warning and bing bong imaginable went off during the tow. Prior to the tow the only light that came on was the orange engine light, which I think comes on anyway when you press the ignition.

[stevieturbo]

No warning lights is a good thing.

Get someone to to a full scan of the vehicle to see if any modules are reporting unhappiness before spending too much money. At least that will give you some indication if they've maybe got wet.

There's any amount of engines for sale on ebay, so no doubt breakers yards are full of them. You might just be able to escape without massive costs if you can find a reputable garage to look at it and potentially swap the engine.

[Maxdecel]

AlexC1981 said:

Perhaps those who went through were locals and were aware of what level was safe for their cars. The sign at the entrance indicated it was at 0.4m. The recover truck driver said they pull loads out as it gets deeper in the middle.

Oh well, no point crying over it. Lesson learnt. I just need to decide what to do now.

If I report it to the insurance company and they don't pay out, then I'm in for a double whammy in that they will record it as an incident on my record, leading to higher insurance, whilst being out of pocket for the repair. At least I have NCB protection on my policy.

You'd like to think the indicated depth was it's deepest ! No point if it's not.
Bd isn't it, heads they win tails you lose.
Stevie turbo raises valid points re. possible long term problems. I feel your pain, all the best.

[Maxdecel]

stevieturbo said:

No warning lights is a good thing.

Get someone to to a full scan of the vehicle to see if any modules are reporting unhappiness before spending too much money. At least that will give you some indication if they've maybe got wet.

There's any amount of engines for sale on ebay, so no doubt breakers yards are full of them. You might just be able to escape without massive costs if you can find a reputable garage to look at it and potentially swap the engine.

Just to add ST as it's jogged my memory, I heard of a total loss purchase from a Salvage yard selling a job lot of flood damaged cars from a dealer, they'd been stood for a while. The car I knew of developed g/box noise after a few months, rust damage to bearings I was told followed by electrical faults. I stress these had been immersed for days but I feel changing the oil might be a good move should you decide to repair.

[GreenV8S]

AlexC1981 said:

If I report it to the insurance company and they don't pay out, then I'm in for a double whammy in that they will record it as an incident on my record, leading to higher insurance, whilst being out of pocket for the repair. At least I have NCB protection on my policy.

You aren't usually required to report mechanical problems or driving through puddles to your insurer, and if you aren't required to then it would be crazy to. I would be astonished if your insurance policy covered mechanical problems, but you claiming on your policy seems certain to drive up your renewal premiums.

A good electronic tester will be able to infer relative engine compression from the current draw while cranking and that would show whether you have significant variation between cylinders. But from your description I think it's very likely you have bent something. That probably means either a new engine or a new car.

[AlexC1981]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I took it up and down the road this morning. Running from cold it felt even rougher and the smoke has returned. Light grey smoke. Looked pretty bad and quite smelly. The oil looks black/normal.

I phoned the recommended garage who can do engine work (5-6 week wait!) and they are going to call me back with a view on if it is worth getting it inspected properly and repaired, given the value of the car. Parkers Guide reckons £2600 for a private sale or £4k dealer price. Given the rear end is a bit tatty and my higher than average mileage I reckon I would be lucky to get £2k for it part exchange if repaired.

I'm starting to think that scrapping it might be the best option. What's that worth, £300?

[AlexC1981]

Thinking about it further, if my car is written off by claiming on insurance, not only will I have higher future premiums, I will have to pay for a new insurance policy for the replacement car, rather than being able to transfer the remainder of my existing policy for a small-ish fee.

[Maxdecel]

Diagnosis at a distance - Rough running & grey smoke, poor combustion because compression ratio isn't being achieved - Bent rod/rods.
Suspect it'll be one as I doubt it would start if more were damaged but that's a guess.
Can't give advice on values, though looking at your figures it seems about right IMO. From your pov it's uneconomical to pay for a repair.
I reckon the cost won't be far off the px value.

[AlexC1981]

Bit late, but thanks everyone for giving their advice

I part exchanged it for £400 off another car that is much more fun to drive, so not a bad outcome in the end.

[JONATHAN_11_80]

I can't believe the utter stupidity of people driving a car through a ford. If a car cuts out in water it's sucked water in and is totally destroyed. Engines cannot compress water it will destroy pistons and bend rods. Your engine will need to be totally stipped and rebuilt with new rods at best. Or a secondhand unit needs to be put in.

[Tony1963]

JONATHAN_11_80 said:

I can't believe the utter stupidity of people driving a car through a ford. If a car cuts out in water it's sucked water in and is totally destroyed. Engines cannot compress water it will destroy pistons and bend rods. Your engine will need to be totally stipped and rebuilt with new rods at best. Or a secondhand unit needs to be put in.

Calm down!

And not every car that cuts out in deep water has bent con rods etc. My 1.9TDi Bora, years ago, cut out when I drove through a large puddle. The water dragged the undertray down, the front of the tray broke off, and the water was forced up into the engine bay. Long story short, the air filter was waterlogged, wouldn’t allow air through fast enough to keep the engine running. Removed the air filter, all good. A fair bit of water poured from the exhaust for a while with the engine ticking over, which was scary.

[Maxdecel]

Tony1963 said:

Calm down!

And not every car that cuts out in deep water has bent con rods etc. My 1.9TDi Bora, years ago, cut out when I drove through a large puddle. The water dragged the undertray down, the front of the tray broke off, and the water was forced up into the engine bay. Long story short, the air filter was waterlogged, wouldn’t allow air through fast enough to keep the engine running. Removed the air filter, all good. A fair bit of water poured from the exhaust for a while with the engine ticking over, which was scary.

I was lucky too, feared the worst.

AlexC1981 said:

I part exchanged it for £400 off another car that is much more fun to drive, so not a bad outcome in the end.

Thanks OP usually never hear the outcome, every cloud n'all that.

[AlexC1981]

JONATHAN_11_80 said:

I can't believe the utter stupidity of people driving a car through a ford. If a car cuts out in water it's sucked water in and is totally destroyed. Engines cannot compress water it will destroy pistons and bend rods. Your engine will need to be totally stipped and rebuilt with new rods at best. Or a secondhand unit needs to be put in.

I've actually driven through the same ford twice more this week. Fords are intended to be driven through when the water is low, otherwise they would be bridges

I'd have turned back if it was more than a couple of inches deep this week.

[Maxdecel]

Still liking the new motor ?