Failed injector on Toyota D4-D 1.5 and . . .

[v9]

Evening all,

We’ve a low mileage (c30k) Urban Cruiser with a failed injector, sudden failure with loss of power and a misfire. Sounds pretty poor when running. No smoke. Garage have said the injector is faulty but have advised scrapping car as the little end bearing has also failed. This is the cause of the noise apparently. They have diagnosed this by ear.

So, could a failed injector on a well maintained low mileage lightly used engine cause the bearing failure? Seems unlikely to me, but open to opinions. Seems a bit of a stretch for these things to happen at the same time and be unconnected, though again it’s theoretically possible.

Any thoughts on the way forward? Second opinion? Fit an injector and see what happens? Garage say they are sure this is a waste of money, but we’re very quick to give the number of a scrap dealer. It’s an immaculate 12plate car, so seems a shame to scrap if not necessary.

[Gary C]

Depends on the failure mode I suppose, if it was passing to little fuel it might have run that cylinder really hot, which might have partially seized it or lots of detonation or a multitude of things.

Someone handy with the spanners could probably swap out the piston. Head off, sump off, undo bigend and push out.

Edited by Gary C on Monday 26th June 20:02

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Let me guess, it's in bits in their garage so pointless you collecting even though they diagnosed by ear?


I'd want a second opinion. Take it somewhere else.

[v9]

It’s not in bits as far as I know. I don’t want to throw too much money at it but thinking of getting it taken to someone I know and trust a bit more to take a look. This garage is an unknown and was only used as it was recovered by the AA there (my wife was driving it at the time) as the only place open at 6pm on a Saturday.

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Let me guess, it's in bits in their garage so pointless you collecting even though they diagnosed by ear?


I'd want a second opinion. Take it somewhere else.

[v9]

Yes, I get where you’re coming from. Not sure how much cooling comes from diesel injected. Engine ran for about 10 mins until my wife found a safe place to stop and get help. Would have thought the rings would fail or show a loss of compression, neither of which are evident. Be surprised if it destroyed the bearing, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

Gary C said:

Depends on the failure mode I suppose, if it was passing to little fuel it might have run that cylinder really hot, which might have partially seized it or lots of detonation or a multitude of things.

Someone handy with the spanners could probably swap out the piston. Head off, sump off, undo bigend and push out.

Edited by Gary C on Monday 26th June 20:02

[stevieturbo]

v9 said:

Evening all,

We’ve a low mileage (c30k) Urban Cruiser with a failed injector, sudden failure with loss of power and a misfire. Sounds pretty poor when running. No smoke. Garage have said the injector is faulty but have advised scrapping car as the little end bearing has also failed. This is the cause of the noise apparently. They have diagnosed this by ear.

So, could a failed injector on a well maintained low mileage lightly used engine cause the bearing failure? Seems unlikely to me, but open to opinions. Seems a bit of a stretch for these things to happen at the same time and be unconnected, though again it’s theoretically possible.

Any thoughts on the way forward? Second opinion? Fit an injector and see what happens? Garage say they are sure this is a waste of money, but we’re very quick to give the number of a scrap dealer. It’s an immaculate 12plate car, so seems a shame to scrap if not necessary.

Let me think for one second. Yep, sounds like a lot of bullst here.

Firstly, diesels are loud enough to make it difficult to diagnose something like a "little end bearing" on a good running engine, nevermind one off a cylinder for whatever reason. ( even though such a failing would be as common as an honest politician )

I would think it is 100% safe to say, get your car away from that garage and to somewhere competent. Nothing you have said so far would inspire me with confidence in them whatsoever

Have they actually removed the injector and had it tested ?

Have they done any real and genuine diagnostic work, or just listened by ear ?

[v9]

stevieturbo said:

Let me think for one second. Yep, sounds like a lot of bullst here.

Firstly, diesels are loud enough to make it difficult to diagnose something like a "little end bearing" on a good running engine, nevermind one off a cylinder for whatever reason. ( even though such a failing would be as common as an honest politician )

I would think it is 100% safe to say, get your car away from that garage and to somewhere competent. Nothing you have said so far would inspire me with confidence in them whatsoever

Have they actually removed the injector and had it tested ?

Have they done any real and genuine diagnostic work, or just listened by ear ?

AA seemed 100% certain an injector was at fault. As far as I know the diagnostics is limited to listening to it. Don’t think they have removed it.

[GreenV8S]

This translates to "We don't know anything about these scary newfangled diesel things but last time we tried to change an injector we effed it up and it ended up costing us a fortune."

I frankly don't believe they or anyone else could reliably diagnose a knocking little end on a diesel with a misfire. Take it to a proper garage who will tell you the truth, not lies to make you go away.

FWIW I'd consider that perfectly safe to drive short/medium distances. The symptoms indicate the injector is under fuelling / not fuelling, which is a safe failure - if it blows up for some reason, it was going to anyway.

[v9]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Pretty much aligns with my thinking. Will get it shipped to another mechanic. Got a horrible feeling that I’m over a barrel with the ‘diagnostic’ costs though, if they say ‘that’s 5hrs at £120/hr’ not sure I’ve got any option but to pay to get the vehicle released. Can’t get there myself cos of work, so will need to rely on recovery.

[Gary C]

v9 said:

Yes, I get where you’re coming from. Not sure how much cooling comes from diesel injected. Engine ran for about 10 mins until my wife found a safe place to stop and get help. Would have thought the rings would fail or show a loss of compression, neither of which are evident. Be surprised if it destroyed the bearing, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

Gary C said:

Depends on the failure mode I suppose, if it was passing to little fuel it might have run that cylinder really hot, which might have partially seized it or lots of detonation or a multitude of things.

Someone handy with the spanners could probably swap out the piston. Head off, sump off, undo bigend and push out.

Edited by Gary C on Monday 26th June 20:02

Ah, I thought it was a petrol. Under fuelling can cause much hotter flame temperatures and overheat the crown.

[v9]

Gary C said:

Ah, I thought it was a petrol. Under fuelling can cause much hotter flame temperatures and overheat the crown.

Yep, I know underfueling petrol engines is likely to lead to all sorts of nastiness, but even then I’d be surprised if it caused the bearing to fail before other more catastrophic things happen. I’m not so clued up on this sort of (fairly) modern diesel engine.

I’ll update if/when I find out more.

[GreenV8S]

v9 said:

if they say ‘that’s 5hrs at £120/hr’ not sure I’ve got any option but to pay to get the vehicle released

That would be an unreasonable amount to charge. From your description they've started and run the engine and listened to it - that is all. They may have a minimum charge of an hour's labour or something like that, but it would be unreasonable to charge you for multiple hours' work. And it would have been unreasonable for them to undertake many hours' worth of work costing hundreds of pounds without your agreement. Presumably you can get an indication of their hourly rate but if it's anywhere near £120 an hour I'd be wanting far more competence than their diagnosis showed.

Bottom line is that I wouldn't expect you to be paying hundreds of pounds for what they've done, and if they try anything silly a call to the local trading standards office would be in order.

[stevieturbo]

v9 said:

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Pretty much aligns with my thinking. Will get it shipped to another mechanic. Got a horrible feeling that I’m over a barrel with the ‘diagnostic’ costs though, if they say ‘that’s 5hrs at £120/hr’ not sure I’ve got any option but to pay to get the vehicle released. Can’t get there myself cos of work, so will need to rely on recovery.

Well by their own admission of diagnostics by ear......did they listen to it for 5 hours ?

[v9]

Hello and thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions on this. On further investigation we found a couple more faults that put the car beyond economic repair for me, so it went on eBay with an honest description and sold within a day for the asking price (£1k). Chap had a farm machinery repair business so had ability to fix it at a more affordable cost than me.

Bought another MX5 instead! Took a gamble on the basis of a phone call on a cheap one 300 miles away, paid a deposit on the strength of the call and jumped on a train to go get it. ‘Twas a calculated risk but it’s a good one. Lovely drive home with the roof down all the way. I’d forgotten just how much fun they are.