Fuel lines and fittings
Discussion
Caution, old person alert!!
For the past 52 years I've used jubilee type or side bolted type clamps on fuel line, all probably on low pressure carburettor engines.
Now I'm faced with this, high pressure throttle bodies, and fancy modern stuff.
Can anyone advise on these fittings? Are they re-useable? How do they work, is there inserts and olives like some modern domestic plumbing? I'm wanting to tidy up the arrangement rather than look like a three legged spider.
Thanks
For the past 52 years I've used jubilee type or side bolted type clamps on fuel line, all probably on low pressure carburettor engines.
Now I'm faced with this, high pressure throttle bodies, and fancy modern stuff.
Can anyone advise on these fittings? Are they re-useable? How do they work, is there inserts and olives like some modern domestic plumbing? I'm wanting to tidy up the arrangement rather than look like a three legged spider.
Thanks
plenty of info, videos etc etc at the end of a search.
Depends on hose type, some are more re-usable than others. In general, do not mix parts from different brands/hoses, as they will not always be the same fitment.
Some may use a compression olive, some will simply compress on the hose.
So really until you see exactly what you have, there is no definitive answer, other than to some degree yes they are re-usable.
I would 100% stay away with any hose that has rubber inside, with an outer covering. The rubber will deteriorate, and you can never inspect it. And a lot are just s
t.
Teflon/PTFE hose is more expensive, not horrendously so, and is usually more robust. And all fuel tolerant. Plus usually smaller diameter so looks neater.
Depends on hose type, some are more re-usable than others. In general, do not mix parts from different brands/hoses, as they will not always be the same fitment.
Some may use a compression olive, some will simply compress on the hose.
So really until you see exactly what you have, there is no definitive answer, other than to some degree yes they are re-usable.
I would 100% stay away with any hose that has rubber inside, with an outer covering. The rubber will deteriorate, and you can never inspect it. And a lot are just s
t.Teflon/PTFE hose is more expensive, not horrendously so, and is usually more robust. And all fuel tolerant. Plus usually smaller diameter so looks neater.
I have used a shed load of these on my kit car ranging from AN3 on my brakes and clutch to AN6 on my fuel system.
The key is make sure when you cut a pipe that it is a clean cut through the braid. I normally cover it in masking tape and use a thin cutting disc on and angle grinder to slice it. Then pull the tape off and put the clamping nut over. Open the braid very slightly just enough to get the olive over the Teflon/PTFE liner but underneath the braid. make sure the olive is fully home then push the hose over the fitting and tighten the nut all the way down with the braid clamping over the olive.
I have covered braid on mine so a little heat shrink is used to tidy up where the cover was removed.
There are so many variations and adapters available you should be able to tidy that up no issues.
The key is make sure when you cut a pipe that it is a clean cut through the braid. I normally cover it in masking tape and use a thin cutting disc on and angle grinder to slice it. Then pull the tape off and put the clamping nut over. Open the braid very slightly just enough to get the olive over the Teflon/PTFE liner but underneath the braid. make sure the olive is fully home then push the hose over the fitting and tighten the nut all the way down with the braid clamping over the olive.
I have covered braid on mine so a little heat shrink is used to tidy up where the cover was removed.
There are so many variations and adapters available you should be able to tidy that up no issues.
Skyedriver said:
Apart from looking "racy" what is the benefit over a basic hose clip?
It depends.It's not just about the hose clip, it's about the hose.
And worm drive clips have no place in a fuel system. This is the correct style of clamp for small diameter fuel hose where you just want a regular push on over a barb style fitting.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/stainless-ste...
In reality, for maybe 90% of people....such hoses/AN fittings offer no real benefit vs suitable rubber hose and a conventional clamp. In some cases they can look neater, and in others be much messier due to the size/bulk of the fittings....much like that big ugly square 4 way block in the photo.
For others, where it allows say ptfe/teflon hose, which is pretty much resistant to any fuel...you can use any fuel you want, and at much higher pressures than a typical rubber hose.
eg some alcohol based fuels, methanol and some race fuels can be quite corrosive to some hose types. Teflon is happy with them all
Thanks Stevie, agree about the hose clips, would never use worm type, the curve of the circumference is so tight they can't grip successfully and tend to strip the threads. Have used the screw type you highlighted.
Have to decide which option to use, and yes apart from the sprawling fuel lines, that 4 way block looks clunky.
Have to decide which option to use, and yes apart from the sprawling fuel lines, that 4 way block looks clunky.
stevieturbo said:
I would 100% stay away with any hose that has rubber inside, with an outer covering. The rubber will deteriorate, and you can never inspect it. And a lot are just st.
I've seen a carb installation with pretty braided hoses and anodised fittings where the rubber inner had never made it over the spigot and was just gently held in place by the braiding - in one case the rubber end was even cut an an angle and only clamped on one side. I want the actual hose to be visible. How often do you mechanically damage a fuel hose while working in an engine bay? That's all the braiding is protecting you from.t.TwinKam said:
When are you going to reveal what you've just bought, Tony? I'm thinking TVR with that Essex in there...
Sorry TwinKam, I started a readers car thread about it. Gilbern Invader Mark 3, with Emerald ECU and Jenveys etc plus Atlas & LSD & Ford 5 Speed and uprated discs all round and an interior that need totally redoing. Once I get the damn thing started.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Finally got a sign of life this afternoon but 30 seconds of rough running, spitting back through the now open "trumpets" it died and won't restart. Plugs soaking again.
What's everyone's way of drying out a car? The plugs (iridium) were given a clean, tested and a hefty spark on all 6, the cylinders left open, spun over a few times then plugs in and away we went, for 30 seconds.......
Patience wearing thin as is the skin on the back of m hand, didn't lose this much when I went to blood doners.....
Edited by Skyedriver on Tuesday 21st March 15:06
You will not clean such plugs, you will most likely harm them.
Fit cheap plugs. If the plugs have been drowned, consider them scrap and do not try and start the car on them until you know 100% the car is running right.
Unless the plugs are incredibly difficult to access on such a car, and will endure a very long life in-situ, fancy precious metal plugs are pretty much a complete waste of money
There was a purple one of those cars for sale a while back, unfinished project. Actually a nice looking car, I'd never heard of them before that.
However...in other photos....that intake......I'm rather horrified.
Fit cheap plugs. If the plugs have been drowned, consider them scrap and do not try and start the car on them until you know 100% the car is running right.
Unless the plugs are incredibly difficult to access on such a car, and will endure a very long life in-situ, fancy precious metal plugs are pretty much a complete waste of money
There was a purple one of those cars for sale a while back, unfinished project. Actually a nice looking car, I'd never heard of them before that.
However...in other photos....that intake......I'm rather horrified.
And whilst it is not a book I rate particularly highly myself, in this instance it will likely be of use to you.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engine-Management-Optimis...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engine-Management-Optimis...
stevieturbo said:
And whilst it is not a book I rate particularly highly myself, in this instance it will likely be of use to you.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engine-Management-Optimis...
Came with the car....................https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engine-Management-Optimis...
Dave Walker is I believe the Emerald ECU guy.
Spent an age looking through the book trying to decipher what the two electrical connections to one of the intake "modules" are. Any ideas.
We're getting off track on my original post now but "straw clutching" in progress.
stevieturbo said:
You will not clean such plugs, you will most likely harm them.
Fit cheap plugs. If the plugs have been drowned, consider them scrap and do not try and start the car on them until you know 100% the car is running right.
Unless the plugs are incredibly difficult to access on such a car, and will endure a very long life in-situ, fancy precious metal plugs are pretty much a complete waste of money
There was a purple one of those cars for sale a while back, unfinished project. Actually a nice looking car, I'd never heard of them before that.
However...in other photos....that intake......I'm rather horrified.
I hadn't realised about those iridium plugs, once cleaned with a wire brush they spark merrily, but wet easily. Will invest in some basic NGK plugs.Fit cheap plugs. If the plugs have been drowned, consider them scrap and do not try and start the car on them until you know 100% the car is running right.
Unless the plugs are incredibly difficult to access on such a car, and will endure a very long life in-situ, fancy precious metal plugs are pretty much a complete waste of money
There was a purple one of those cars for sale a while back, unfinished project. Actually a nice looking car, I'd never heard of them before that.
However...in other photos....that intake......I'm rather horrified.
They're a bit fiddly to get back in until you "get" the angle and inclination. A damn side more difficult with the 6 legged octopus in place however.
Not sure what to do with the inlets, there's not a lot of room above the throttle bodies hence the 90 degree bends. One of the three inlets has these two electrical connections, I'm guessing intake temp for one but the other?? Three K&N might fit (what to do with the electronics) or I could try and make a base to sit a low foam filter on, or a low height plenum chamber but that may obstruct air flow.
Haven't drained the old fuel and replaced yet as it did briefly run OK for a few miles back in January but I think I must get that done before attempting anything else.
Thanks for all suggestions.
Mikey G said:
I'm wondering if they did it with that 4 way as a way of equaling flow and pressure across the 3 fuel rails.
So many adapters on the market you could probably make up a single supply line using tee's and elbows to join the fuel rails with a single connection one end.
That thought had crossed my mind. Need to get it running OK before starting to improve the routes of the pipework.So many adapters on the market you could probably make up a single supply line using tee's and elbows to join the fuel rails with a single connection one end.
Skyedriver said:
I hadn't realised about those iridium plugs, once cleaned with a wire brush they spark merrily, but wet easily. Will invest in some basic NGK plugs.
They're a bit fiddly to get back in until you "get" the angle and inclination. A damn side more difficult with the 6 legged octopus in place however.
Not sure what to do with the inlets, there's not a lot of room above the throttle bodies hence the 90 degree bends. One of the three inlets has these two electrical connections, I'm guessing intake temp for one but the other?? Three K&N might fit (what to do with the electronics) or I could try and make a base to sit a low foam filter on, or a low height plenum chamber but that may obstruct air flow.
Haven't drained the old fuel and replaced yet as it did briefly run OK for a few miles back in January but I think I must get that done before attempting anything else.
Thanks for all suggestions.
You will damage a precious metal plug by trying to clean it with a wire brush. DO NOT DO THIS.They're a bit fiddly to get back in until you "get" the angle and inclination. A damn side more difficult with the 6 legged octopus in place however.
Not sure what to do with the inlets, there's not a lot of room above the throttle bodies hence the 90 degree bends. One of the three inlets has these two electrical connections, I'm guessing intake temp for one but the other?? Three K&N might fit (what to do with the electronics) or I could try and make a base to sit a low foam filter on, or a low height plenum chamber but that may obstruct air flow.
Haven't drained the old fuel and replaced yet as it did briefly run OK for a few miles back in January but I think I must get that done before attempting anything else.
Thanks for all suggestions.
As said, if you've drowned the plugs with fuel. DO NOT continue trying to start the car with them. It is futile.
As for whatever this "intake module" you refer to, post a picture of it.
A new manifold with the runners into a common single plenum would be neater and then a single air filter. Or perhaps yes, short runners and 3 filters.
And what electronics are you referring to ? be specific as I cannot see from here.
Skyedriver said:
TwinKam said:
When are you going to reveal what you've just bought, Tony? I'm thinking TVR with that Essex in there...
Sorry TwinKam, I started a readers car thread about it. Gilbern Invader Mark 3, with Emerald ECU and Jenveys etc plus Atlas & LSD & Ford 5 Speed and uprated discs all round and an interior that need totally redoing. When I first started spannering, in my uncle's garage in the mid 70's, his foreman had a Gilbern, but it only had the 1800 'B' Series anchor. Had a soft spot for them ever since.
E-bmw said:
stevieturbo said:
However...in other photos....that intake......I'm rather horrified.
It does look like it was a joint project made by Heath & Robinson!Tony was a pretty good engineer, there's some clever stuff on the car unfortunately this isn't one of them.
Worst comes to worst, I can go back to a Weber carb & dizzy, all came with the car in a van load of spares.
Skyedriver said:
E-bmw said:
stevieturbo said:
However...in other photos....that intake......I'm rather horrified.
It does look like it was a joint project made by Heath & Robinson!Tony was a pretty good engineer, there's some clever stuff on the car unfortunately this isn't one of them.
Worst comes to worst, I can go back to a Weber carb & dizzy, all came with the car in a van load of spares.
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