Cam Belts - 5 years, 10 years???

[Pilch1]

I have a VW Golf 1.4 petrol which requires a cam belt change every 5 years irrespective of mileage. My son has a Ford Fiesta 1.6 petrol which requires a cam belt change every 10 years or 100,000 miles whichever comes first.

The question is, why such a big difference in interval?

Does the Golf put greater stress on the belt? Is the Fiesta belt some sort of long life technology? Are the consequences of a cam belt breaking worse with the Golf? Or is it just that VW want to extract more cash through maintenance than Ford ?

Any thoughts?

[MattsCar]

I once went to look at a car sold by a brummy...

I asked him when was the cambelt changed...he looked at me and said "I'm very much of the mentality that if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

This is not a joke and yes, I didn't buy it.

[7 5 7]

Every manufacturers engines are different, so I suspect your not far from the truth, some engines are more highly strung than others so variables and part tolerances are different, only a guess myself.

[GiantCardboardPlato]

The golf one goes round twice as fast?

[Tango13]

A mechanic mate showed me the result of a cam belt failure on an Audi after 110k iirc, not pretty...

Audi recommended 120k for a belt change but the same engine in a VW needed the belt doing @90k

[The spinner of plates]

Their fragility and change intervals are based on how much you personally have invested in that particular car at any particular time.

As soon as you don’t care about the future of a car, its cambelt will reliably outlive anything else on it.

[Easternlight]

Ford cambelt is a "wet belt" inside the engine so runs in oil.
Service is 9 years or 90k miles I believe.
It's a very expensive change!
There's two belts in there the other drives the oil pump!!
Very critical to use the correct oil spec.

[Ardennes92]

Tango13 said:

A mechanic mate showed me the result of a cam belt failure on an Audi after 110k iirc, not pretty...

Audi recommended 120k for a belt change but the same engine in a VW needed the belt doing @90k

And if you look at the engine in a seat or Skoda it will be different again, not sure there is any science to it, just whatever they can get away with.

[gt40steve]

Pilch1 said:

I have a VW Golf 1.4 petrol which requires a cam belt change every 5 years irrespective of mileage. My son has a Ford Fiesta 1.6 petrol which requires a cam belt change every 10 years or 100,000 miles whichever comes first.

The question is, why such a big difference in interval?

Does the Golf put greater stress on the belt? Is the Fiesta belt some sort of long life technology? Are the consequences of a cam belt breaking worse with the Golf? Or is it just that VW want to extract more cash through maintenance than Ford ?

Any thoughts?

I wouldn't try and over think this ! They're two different cars with two different engines.

One car may have a wider belt, may have a smoother belt run, etc Just have it changed when, or before, recommended.

Most petrol cars would probably bend valves & most times the pistons survive.

No, VW aren't trying to extract more cash, the company changing the belt are the one that gets paid. VW will sell the belt wholesale to the dealer or independent garage. In the case of the independent they may not even buy the belt from VW. A cam belt change cost is mostly labour rather than parts in most cases.

[gt40steve]

gt40steve said:

Pilch1 said:

I have a VW Golf 1.4 petrol which requires a cam belt change every 5 years irrespective of mileage. My son has a Ford Fiesta 1.6 petrol which requires a cam belt change every 10 years or 100,000 miles whichever comes first.

The question is, why such a big difference in interval?

Does the Golf put greater stress on the belt? Is the Fiesta belt some sort of long life technology? Are the consequences of a cam belt breaking worse with the Golf? Or is it just that VW want to extract more cash through maintenance than Ford ?

Any thoughts?

I wouldn't try and over think this ! They're two different cars with two different engines.

One car may have a wider belt, may have a smoother belt run, etc Just have it changed when, or before, recommended.

Most petrol cars would probably bend valves & most times the pistons survive.

No, VW aren't trying to extract more cash, the company changing the belt are the one that gets paid. VW will sell the belt wholesale to the dealer or independent garage. In the case of the independent they may not even buy the belt from VW. A cam belt change cost is mostly labour rather than parts in most cases.

NB, The Fiesta 1.6 mentioned above will be the Ford Sigma engine, a conventional external cam belt.

[M11rph]

VAG (VW group) are very confusing in this respect.

If the OP is refering to the 1.4 TSi engine then there are even different intervals stated for different countries and within VAG for the same engine in different brands. EA211 engines come from the same Skoda engine Plant, they make something like 2000 every day.

I have the 1.4 EA211 engine (148 HP variant) in a SEAT, that states 140k mile inspection interval, no time limits. Ask a dealer and they'll say 60k and every 4 or 5 years for it to be changed. Ask in Germany and you'll get the same answer (240k Km ~ 140k miles). VW state 120k for a cam belt change, not inspection...

Some of this is legacy thinking from dealers who are happy to take your money. Modern Kevlar reinforced cambelts are much more durable than their predecessors.

[NMNeil]

VW timing belt width = 20mm
Ford timing belt width = 22mm
Maybe the Ford belt is stronger. Just a guess.

[DanSkoda]

Also bear in mind that the importer (i.e Audi UK) can state they recommend the cambelt to be done every 5 years, while the factory will say no age limit. Just inspect after so many years and a mileage condition.

The one that bugged me was Skoda saying anything prior to September 2010 was 4 year intervals, anything after was 5 years. Didn't matter when the engine or car was built, just when it was registered.

[Sheepshanks]

M11rph said:

VW state 120k for a cam belt change, not inspection...

On the diesels, VW UK say 5yrs regardless of mileage - apparently "regardless" is because they assume no-one will get to the mileage limit of 130K miles.

VW Germany said 130K miles regardless of age. I emailed them to ask. When I queried why VW UK insist on 5yrs they stopped responding.

[jgrewal]

Good to see this thread as I am in similar situation! I have a 2011 Golf 1.6 TDI blue motion and the belt was done at purchase by the dealer (6 years ago) where the mileage was 57k and now the car is at 70k. As per the small increase on mileage the car is used only for local driving and I am nervous I have left this longer than advised. May just need to take the hit in the summer and get it sorted with the water pump all in one job from a specialist.

[stevieturbo]

Pilch1 said:

I have a VW Golf 1.4 petrol which requires a cam belt change every 5 years irrespective of mileage. My son has a Ford Fiesta 1.6 petrol which requires a cam belt change every 10 years or 100,000 miles whichever comes first.

The question is, why such a big difference in interval?

Does the Golf put greater stress on the belt? Is the Fiesta belt some sort of long life technology? Are the consequences of a cam belt breaking worse with the Golf? Or is it just that VW want to extract more cash through maintenance than Ford ?

Any thoughts?

Save yourself money and never change it.

Or tyres, or brakes, or oil...or any consumable parts.

[dhutch]

Smoke and mirrors and fear.

[stevemcs]

Given VWs don’t seem to be able to make the 5 years I’d be changing it sooner rather than later. The water pumps being a weak spot.




That was a caddy that was 4 years old and less than 80k

[jgrewal]

Thanks for the advice there and looks like get done sooner than later based on that pic. VW quoted me £800 on theist service definitely going independent!

[Smint]

Much depends on what the belt drives and the route it has to take.

Our two Japanese cars couldn't be more different.
Prado has a heavy duty but short belt, it only drives the one camshaft sprocket and the one idler/tensioner, nothing else, these don't have any reputation of failing but then it only takes an hour to swap the belt and its a cheap kit so few are daft enough to leave it.

Subaru's ridiculously long belt drives everything, twice, all 4 camshafts water pump and umpteen idlers/tensioner, how it lasts as long as it does is amazing, they are known to fail if left....after commenting about the belt run i was told by a Subaru tuner that race/rally versions run two separate belts, makes sense.

I would not buy a car with a belt that runs in oil, ever, it would be no more difficult to change a timing chain and no matter what oil someone put in it would still lube the chain without damage, and you tend to hear timing chains rattling long before a failureis likely.