New Honda V6 engine ditches V-TEC

[rodericb]

Over the past year or so, some posters on PH have aggressively assured us that no manufacturer is developing internal combustion engines and haven't for a while. Honda must have not read that particular memo as they've just unveiled a V6 engine which would appear to have had a reasonable amount of development as it's the first V6 since the C30 (in the NSX) to not be equipped with V-TEC. However, the variable cam timing hasn't disappeared - it's the method of doing it which has changed.

V-TEC used oil pressure to engage another camshaft or two but this new donk uses cam phasers to do the same job with one set of camshafts. Like most other manufacturers. This method increases efficiency as there's less rotating of things going on. That, and some improvements to the direct injection system promise a reduction of up to 50% in particulates and nitrous oxides.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42673021/hondas...

[sixor8]

Honda sell a LOT of cars in the USA still, and they aren't being quite as zealous about incoming EVs. By that I mean it's a 'target,' not a legal requirement, to have half of all new cars be EV by 2030.

[Dingu]

The article does note the improved efficiency helps Honda whilst their Electrification catches up. So as much as the posters you refer to appear to have been wrong based on this evidence, pointing to this as evidence that car manufacturers are committed to ICE may also be wide of the mark -the truth likely somewhere down the middle.

[AmyRichardson]

Odd to be doing a new N/A engine.

Stelantis introduced a new I6 last year but that was a 400+hp turbocharged affair to replace older V8s in the US market- which makes more obvious sense.

Likewise Toyota retain a foothold in markets that can't handle the complexity of F/I engines (and don't have meaningful emissions regs) so big, new N/A engines make sense for them - but Honda can't say the same.

[stevieturbo]

sixor8 said:

Honda sell a LOT of cars in the USA still, and they aren't being quite as zealous about incoming EVs. By that I mean it's a 'target,' not a legal requirement, to have half of all new cars be EV by 2030.

Forcing it, like the EU/UK are currently proposing, will have massive and very negative consequences for the automotive industry around that time. Unless there is some genuine miracle in battery tech long before that time
And that miracle would need to in volve batteries 4-5x better than what is currently available, and cost next to nothing. Which is never going to be a reality.

They are going to crucify the industry with their insane hypocritical crusade. Whether there can be any comeback from this will remain a mystery. But the future is not bright especially for those industries

[Dingu]

stevieturbo said:

Forcing it, like the EU/UK are currently proposing, will have massive and very negative consequences for the automotive industry around that time. Unless there is some genuine miracle in battery tech long before that time
And that miracle would need to in volve batteries 4-5x better than what is currently available, and cost next to nothing. Which is never going to be a reality.

They are going to crucify the industry with their insane hypocritical crusade. Whether there can be any comeback from this will remain a mystery. But the future is not bright especially for those industries

Scaremongering a touch!

[Evoluzione]

Dingu said:

stevieturbo said:

Forcing it, like the EU/UK are currently proposing, will have massive and very negative consequences for the automotive industry around that time. Unless there is some genuine miracle in battery tech long before that time
And that miracle would need to in volve batteries 4-5x better than what is currently available, and cost next to nothing. Which is never going to be a reality.

They are going to crucify the industry with their insane hypocritical crusade. Whether there can be any comeback from this will remain a mystery. But the future is not bright especially for those industries

Scaremongering a touch!

When you consider how out of touch (and that's putting it lightly) our governments are with the car industry you do wonder. Which one of the goons put this forward anyhow?
I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a climb down or postponement.

[samoht]

rodericb said:

Over the past year or so, some posters on PH have aggressively assured us that no manufacturer is developing internal combustion engines and haven't for a while. Honda must have not read that particular memo as they've just unveiled a V6 engine which would appear to have had a reasonable amount of development as it's the first V6 since the C30 (in the NSX) to not be equipped with V-TEC. However, the variable cam timing hasn't disappeared - it's the method of doing it which has changed.

V-TEC used oil pressure to engage another camshaft or two but this new donk uses cam phasers to do the same job with one set of camshafts. Like most other manufacturers. This method increases efficiency as there's less rotating of things going on. That, and some improvements to the direct injection system promise a reduction of up to 50% in particulates and nitrous oxides.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42673021/hondas...

This description isnt quite accurate in the details.

The new engine has variable cam timing, whereas VTEC gives not only variable timing but variable lift as well.

It does this not with an extra camshaft, but with two sets of cam lobes, and the rocker can lock to pick up the higher lift lobes.

To your point, the new engine has the same bore and stroke as the previous one. It swaps a VTEC SOHC head for a non-VTEC SOHC one, which is taken from a pre existing turbo V6.

So in that sense it's more a combination of existing parts than a new engine. However the direct injection system has been improved significantly, reducing emissions and perhaps increasing efficiency, which does represent meaningful ICE investment. So not as much as perhaps suggested, but not nothing.

The really significant all new engine is Mazda's new inline six. That really is brand new, in diesel and petrol. Did you know Mazda has a contract with an AI firm in Cambridge to use their software to optimise design of new engine?

[300bhp/ton]

sixor8 said:

Honda sell a LOT of cars in the USA still, and they aren't being quite as zealous about incoming EVs. By that I mean it's a 'target,' not a legal requirement, to have half of all new cars be EV by 2030.

Not too mention the World is actually rather larger and there are a lot of countries that also aren't in Europe or even the USA, but most PH'ers seem to be in need of a globe to actually realise this.