Oil change intervals - race engine
Discussion
A quick question around oil change intervals for a 'road based' race engine.
Specifically my engine is a 100k Peugeot 1600 16v engine from a 106.
I run it with a 10w50 oil from Total, and in the past I'd change the oil every couple of race meetings. But I am starting to wonder why I do this? can someone provide either the reason or the theory as to why I should change oil more regularly for an engine used for racing? Especially an old smoker like mine? The standard oil change intervals are 12 months, 9k miles ( the latter would take many, many seasons to achieve) but surely once a year based on 14 x 15 min races is frequent enough ( not withstanding any top ups required)? Or is there something I am missing?
Specifically my engine is a 100k Peugeot 1600 16v engine from a 106.
I run it with a 10w50 oil from Total, and in the past I'd change the oil every couple of race meetings. But I am starting to wonder why I do this? can someone provide either the reason or the theory as to why I should change oil more regularly for an engine used for racing? Especially an old smoker like mine? The standard oil change intervals are 12 months, 9k miles ( the latter would take many, many seasons to achieve) but surely once a year based on 14 x 15 min races is frequent enough ( not withstanding any top ups required)? Or is there something I am missing?
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
A quick question around oil change intervals for a 'road based' race engine.
Specifically my engine is a 100k Peugeot 1600 16v engine from a 106.
I run it with a 10w50 oil from Total, and in the past I'd change the oil every couple of race meetings. But I am starting to wonder why I do this? can someone provide either the reason or the theory as to why I should change oil more regularly for an engine used for racing? Especially an old smoker like mine? The standard oil change intervals are 12 months, 9k miles ( the latter would take many, many seasons to achieve) but surely once a year based on 14 x 15 min races is frequent enough ( not withstanding any top ups required)? Or is there something I am missing?
The only real answer would be to take a sample and send it off for analysis.Specifically my engine is a 100k Peugeot 1600 16v engine from a 106.
I run it with a 10w50 oil from Total, and in the past I'd change the oil every couple of race meetings. But I am starting to wonder why I do this? can someone provide either the reason or the theory as to why I should change oil more regularly for an engine used for racing? Especially an old smoker like mine? The standard oil change intervals are 12 months, 9k miles ( the latter would take many, many seasons to achieve) but surely once a year based on 14 x 15 min races is frequent enough ( not withstanding any top ups required)? Or is there something I am missing?
I would guess:
Higher revs will "chop" up the strands in the oil that make it work quicker, thinning it out and reducing it's effectiveness faster.
Consistently higher pressures from high revs and full throttle probably introduce more "soot" and other contaminants.
It will be down to temperature and fuel dilution.
The oil's life will degrade much faster above ~125degC
Then again you may not be near that anyway.
As you're (likely) flat out everywhere it's probably dumping the fuel in and this gets into the oil and lowers the viscosity. 3% will drop the viscosity grade one SAE ranking.
Send off a fresh sample and a used sample and get them measured. Won't cost a lot but will give you an idea for future intervals.
The oil's life will degrade much faster above ~125degC
Then again you may not be near that anyway.
As you're (likely) flat out everywhere it's probably dumping the fuel in and this gets into the oil and lowers the viscosity. 3% will drop the viscosity grade one SAE ranking.
Send off a fresh sample and a used sample and get them measured. Won't cost a lot but will give you an idea for future intervals.
stevieturbo said:
it states it's a 100k miles 1.6 engine.
He might use it for some racing, but in no way is that a "race" engine.
correct. It is a road engine, essentially unmodified from standard apart from some mapping. It is used solely for racing however. So the map has few compromises. I.e increases to fuelling, changes to timing etc.He might use it for some racing, but in no way is that a "race" engine.
It's an old lump, I have had it apart and replaced things like seals, head gaskets etc. However piston rings and crank/rod bearings are original AFAIAW.
The bearings were inspected and were ok.
Oil is Total Quartz 10w50. I will get the oil inspected, but I am struggling to see the advantage of more than 1x per year oil change based on maybe 3-5 hours of running ( albeit at high revs). Surely the oil will take that?
from me Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
correct. It is a road engine, essentially unmodified from standard apart from some mapping. It is used solely for racing however. So the map has few compromises. I.e increases to fuelling, changes to timing etc.
It's an old lump, I have had it apart and replaced things like seals, head gaskets etc. However piston rings and crank/rod bearings are original AFAIAW.
The bearings were inspected and were ok.
Oil is Total Quartz 10w50. I will get the oil inspected, but I am struggling to see the advantage of more than 1x per year oil change based on maybe 3-5 hours of running ( albeit at high revs). Surely the oil will take that?
I've already said once a year would be quite fine.It's an old lump, I have had it apart and replaced things like seals, head gaskets etc. However piston rings and crank/rod bearings are original AFAIAW.
The bearings were inspected and were ok.
Oil is Total Quartz 10w50. I will get the oil inspected, but I am struggling to see the advantage of more than 1x per year oil change based on maybe 3-5 hours of running ( albeit at high revs). Surely the oil will take that?
But again, it does depend on whether you manage to cook the oil or not. I would suspect it is rather unlikely, but get an oil temp gauge and keep an eye on it.
As well as the general condition of the oil on the dipstick
Update:
Oil report as per below.
Oil lab state that the oil is within tolerances and the engine oil is satisfactory for further use. For reference the oil had been in the engine for 1x test and 4x races.
Of the scores below the only ones that are higher are Boron, which might be a legacy of the head gasket failure ( the oil has been changed since) o and silicon which could be due to a high flow air flter or the silicon sealant
PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
Viscosity @ 40°C cSt 93.49
Water Content %wt 0.0
Total InsolubleMatter % 0.1
Total Base No mgKOH/g n/a
Fuel Detected % 0
Fuel Dilution >135c 0
SPECTROCHEMICAL ANALYSIS
Iron ppm 26
Chromium ppm 0
Aluminium ppm 8
Molybdenum ppm 1
Copper ppm 3
Lead ppm 0
Tin ppm 8
Nickel ppm 0
Silicon ppm 30
Sodium ppm 14
Boron ppm 75
Vanadium ppm 0
Calcium ppm 2810
Phosphorus ppm 871
Zinc ppm 1010
Magnesium ppm 21
Oil report as per below.
Oil lab state that the oil is within tolerances and the engine oil is satisfactory for further use. For reference the oil had been in the engine for 1x test and 4x races.
Of the scores below the only ones that are higher are Boron, which might be a legacy of the head gasket failure ( the oil has been changed since) o and silicon which could be due to a high flow air flter or the silicon sealant
PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
Viscosity @ 40°C cSt 93.49
Water Content %wt 0.0
Total InsolubleMatter % 0.1
Total Base No mgKOH/g n/a
Fuel Detected % 0
Fuel Dilution >135c 0
SPECTROCHEMICAL ANALYSIS
Iron ppm 26
Chromium ppm 0
Aluminium ppm 8
Molybdenum ppm 1
Copper ppm 3
Lead ppm 0
Tin ppm 8
Nickel ppm 0
Silicon ppm 30
Sodium ppm 14
Boron ppm 75
Vanadium ppm 0
Calcium ppm 2810
Phosphorus ppm 871
Zinc ppm 1010
Magnesium ppm 21
Krikkit said:
Interesting stuff, did you send a sample of the unused oil with it?
Did they test viscosity at a higher temperature?
No and No.Did they test viscosity at a higher temperature?
I just took a small sample from the sump, the oil had been used in a race meeting and a test. So I think fairly representative. BORON could be a problem but suspect that this is a legacy of head gasket failure. I did change the oil before the test and race, but suspect there would still be a bit of residue left over.
My main concern was the health of the engine and it seems ok considering its high mileage. I will probably change the oil before the end of the season.
How does Boron, https://www.britannica.com/science/boron-chemical-... relate to anything head gasket related ?
Hell....why is it even anywhere in your engine ? lol
Hell....why is it even anywhere in your engine ? lol
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