Sealed for life auto transmissions
Discussion
Hi,
Got a Volvo XC90 with a 'sealed for life' transmission. In common with many, I don't buy the 'sealed for life' thing, so I want to change the fluid/filters in it. Took the car to my local garage who said that it's not just a case of letting old out and putting new in - there's a specialist machine that's required to do this task.
So, can anyone recommend a place near to Tonbridge in Kent that would be able to service the gearbox?
Failing that, I'm guessing a search on Google for 'Automatic Transmission Specialists' would be a good bet?
Cheers & happy new year
Got a Volvo XC90 with a 'sealed for life' transmission. In common with many, I don't buy the 'sealed for life' thing, so I want to change the fluid/filters in it. Took the car to my local garage who said that it's not just a case of letting old out and putting new in - there's a specialist machine that's required to do this task.
So, can anyone recommend a place near to Tonbridge in Kent that would be able to service the gearbox?
Failing that, I'm guessing a search on Google for 'Automatic Transmission Specialists' would be a good bet?
Cheers & happy new year
If you don't mind driving up to Dartford talk to Martin Hind at Dartford Transmissions. He has all the kit for flushing it properly.
https://www.dartfordtransmissions.co.uk/
No affiliation just had really good service when he did the gearbox in my e39.
https://www.dartfordtransmissions.co.uk/
No affiliation just had really good service when he did the gearbox in my e39.
Blanchimont said:
What gearbox is in it?
5 Speed Auto - this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisin_AF33_transmiss...lufbramatt said:
If you don't mind driving up to Dartford talk to Martin Hind at Dartford Transmissions. He has all the kit for flushing it properly.
https://www.dartfordtransmissions.co.uk/
No affiliation just had really good service when he did the gearbox in my e39.
I can also vouch for Dartford Transmissions, when i had my e39. A bit tucked away behind some houses, but a top service.https://www.dartfordtransmissions.co.uk/
No affiliation just had really good service when he did the gearbox in my e39.
There is a method of doing the fluid change yourself (google "Gibbons Method"), which doesn't involve any dismantling of the transmission, but it uses loads of (expensive) fluid, and can be messy.
Essentially you open the drain screw in the transmission oil pan, measure what comes out, replace the drain screw and add the same volume of clean fluid via the filler hole. Pop the return hose off the transmission oil cooler, and run a piece of hose from the cooler outlet into a container. Start the engine, and fluid will be ejected from the cooler via your hose into the container. It will be filthy and brown.
After a couple of litres have pumped out, you will start to see bubbles. Switch off the engine, measure the volume of oil that came out, and add the equivalent in clean oil as before. Repeat the above, and you'll see the ejected fluid become a little cleaner each time as the old stuff is ejected, and the new stuff is pumped through. There is some mixing using this method, so you will waste a bit of oil unfortunately.
Once you're happy with the colour (should be a mid-red and you should be able to see through it), then run everything up to temperature, and top off to the correct level.
Make sure you use the correct AWS3309 spec transmission oil.
Unlike many auto transmissions that have the oil filter accessible behind the oil pan, the filter in these Aisin transmissions is deep inside the unit, and needs quite a lot of dismantling to get to it.
Essentially you open the drain screw in the transmission oil pan, measure what comes out, replace the drain screw and add the same volume of clean fluid via the filler hole. Pop the return hose off the transmission oil cooler, and run a piece of hose from the cooler outlet into a container. Start the engine, and fluid will be ejected from the cooler via your hose into the container. It will be filthy and brown.
After a couple of litres have pumped out, you will start to see bubbles. Switch off the engine, measure the volume of oil that came out, and add the equivalent in clean oil as before. Repeat the above, and you'll see the ejected fluid become a little cleaner each time as the old stuff is ejected, and the new stuff is pumped through. There is some mixing using this method, so you will waste a bit of oil unfortunately.
Once you're happy with the colour (should be a mid-red and you should be able to see through it), then run everything up to temperature, and top off to the correct level.
Make sure you use the correct AWS3309 spec transmission oil.
Unlike many auto transmissions that have the oil filter accessible behind the oil pan, the filter in these Aisin transmissions is deep inside the unit, and needs quite a lot of dismantling to get to it.
I can't help with this particular transmission but this "sealed" thing pisses me off. Mercedes has been inconsistent in their advice for their 7G-Tronic gearbox. In my family we've had 7 or 8 cars with this same gearbox to date and between us we've heard advice that the fluid 1) never needs changing, 2) needs changing only at the first 35K mile service (and never again), and 3) every 35K miles. I choose to have it changed every 35K miles.
In fact while booking my recent service, I was asked why I would want the fluid changing by the slightly incredulous call-centre lady.
The fluid change process is not simple as it involves draining the torque converter too and replacing a fairly large filter which sits in the bottom of the gearbox housing. Total cost is £400+ but I think it's worthwhile.
In fact while booking my recent service, I was asked why I would want the fluid changing by the slightly incredulous call-centre lady.
The fluid change process is not simple as it involves draining the torque converter too and replacing a fairly large filter which sits in the bottom of the gearbox housing. Total cost is £400+ but I think it's worthwhile.
Not sure about this. Quite a few people (self included?) never, ever replace or top up manual transmission oil, ever, unless it is leaking. Or till it starts to leak from either front or rear oil seals, which might mean not before 120,000 miles. Never really been an issue. Not exposed to searing temperatures, or contaminants and dilutants like engine oil is, (and any metal is caught by the magnetic plugs) the oil seems to be just as effective "forever". Now I know nothing about dual clutch boxes etc so that may be a different kettle.
996TT02 said:
Not sure about this. Quite a few people (self included?) never, ever replace or top up manual transmission oil, ever, unless it is leaking. Or till it starts to leak from either front or rear oil seals, which might mean not before 120,000 miles. Never really been an issue. Not exposed to searing temperatures, or contaminants and dilutants like engine oil is, (and any metal is caught by the magnetic plugs) the oil seems to be just as effective "forever". Now I know nothing about dual clutch boxes etc so that may be a different kettle.
Dont agree 
the oil degrades over time with heat cycles adding to the mix wearing down the additives etc, clutches shed material inc steel that the filter/strainer will not/cant stop all of , which is often proven by the grey silt in the valve body/mechatronic assy & torque converter housing etc , so getting back to the original thread title "Sealed For Life" is b
ks , here is one I did a few years ago and you can see see in the channels , I dont build auto trans for my occupation 
Edited by Unweder on Wednesday 4th January 13:07
Unweder said:
996TT02 said:
Not sure about this. Quite a few people (self included?) never, ever replace or top up manual transmission oil, ever, unless it is leaking. Or till it starts to leak from either front or rear oil seals, which might mean not before 120,000 miles. Never really been an issue. Not exposed to searing temperatures, or contaminants and dilutants like engine oil is, (and any metal is caught by the magnetic plugs) the oil seems to be just as effective "forever". Now I know nothing about dual clutch boxes etc so that may be a different kettle.
Dont agree the oil degrades over time with heat cycles adding to the mix wearing down the additives etc, clutches shed material inc steel that the filter/strainer will not/cant stop all of , which is often proven by the grey silt in the valve body/mechatronic assy & torque converter housing etc , so getting back to the original thread title "Sealed For Life" is bks , here is one I did a few years ago and you can see see in the channels , I dont build auto trans for my occupation Edited by Unweder on Wednesday 4th January 13:07
One of the issues on these Aisin boxes (I also have an XC90, albeit with the later 6 speed TF80 box) is wear to the pistons and bores in the valve body that generate this hydraulic pressure. The pistons then become a sloppy fit in the bores and either "leak" pressure causing slow shifting, missed shifts or slipping gears, or sometimes get cocked in the bores and stick, meaning the box won't select the gear at all. Occasionally they free off suddenly, and the gear engages with a bang, which does further damage.
Regular fluid changes are known to significantly reduce the chance of this issue occurring. Unfortunately, it also means that by the time the transmission starts playing up, the damage is done, and it's too late.
A pal of mine (not in the trade) bagged a couple of D5 Volvo models with Aisin/Warner trans no D gear selection and one with no reverse operation by doing a fluid change then a further one a couple of weeks later , he had both cars for a while after with no return of either problem 
I did however remind him that he was a jammy bd 
however he didnt try a third example 
I did however remind him that he was a jammy bd however he didnt try a third example Unweder said:
A pal of mine (not in the trade) bagged a couple of D5 Volvo models with Aisin/Warner trans no D gear selection and one with no reverse operation by doing a fluid change then a further one a couple of weeks later , he had both cars for a while after with no return of either problem I did however remind him that he was a jammy bd however he didnt try a third example
I take it he does the lottery! I did however remind him that he was a jammy bd however he didnt try a third example Limpet said:
Unweder said:
996TT02 said:
Not sure about this. Quite a few people (self included?) never, ever replace or top up manual transmission oil, ever, unless it is leaking. Or till it starts to leak from either front or rear oil seals, which might mean not before 120,000 miles. Never really been an issue. Not exposed to searing temperatures, or contaminants and dilutants like engine oil is, (and any metal is caught by the magnetic plugs) the oil seems to be just as effective "forever". Now I know nothing about dual clutch boxes etc so that may be a different kettle.
Dont agree the oil degrades over time with heat cycles adding to the mix wearing down the additives etc, clutches shed material inc steel that the filter/strainer will not/cant stop all of , which is often proven by the grey silt in the valve body/mechatronic assy & torque converter housing etc , so getting back to the original thread title "Sealed For Life" is bks , here is one I did a few years ago and you can see see in the channels , I dont build auto trans for my occupation Edited by Unweder on Wednesday 4th January 13:07
One of the issues on these Aisin boxes (I also have an XC90, albeit with the later 6 speed TF80 box) is wear to the pistons and bores in the valve body that generate this hydraulic pressure. The pistons then become a sloppy fit in the bores and either "leak" pressure causing slow shifting, missed shifts or slipping gears, or sometimes get cocked in the bores and stick, meaning the box won't select the gear at all. Occasionally they free off suddenly, and the gear engages with a bang, which does further damage.
Regular fluid changes are known to significantly reduce the chance of this issue occurring. Unfortunately, it also means that by the time the transmission starts playing up, the damage is done, and it's too late.
Of course, I didn't have the luxury of the knowledge on the internet as we have now. I would definitely treat the oil as a necessary service item, which needs replacing.
Limpet said:
Unweder said:
A pal of mine (not in the trade) bagged a couple of D5 Volvo models with Aisin/Warner trans no D gear selection and one with no reverse operation by doing a fluid change then a further one a couple of weeks later , he had both cars for a while after with no return of either problem I did however remind him that he was a jammy bd however he didnt try a third example
I take it he does the lottery! I did however remind him that he was a jammy bd however he didnt try a third example 
I would not have believed it only that it came from him direct 
Limpet said:
Unlike many auto transmissions that have the oil filter accessible behind the oil pan, the filter in these Aisin transmissions is deep inside the unit, and needs quite a lot of dismantling to get to it.
I've heard that there is benefit in changing the oil, however, there's almost no benefit in changing the filter. The idea being that if the filter has collected enough material to block, then the box is toast anyway and needs a rebuild.If you're dropping the pan you may as well change the filter, however, assuming your box has a drain, you can save a lot of faff by just changing some of the oil, on a regular basis and leave the filter and pan in place.
thoughts?
montyjohn said:
thoughts?
Many boxes no longer have a drain plug so you need to drop the pan to drain the box. Doing so is useful because you get to see what's in there. For instance, bits of metal would be bad news. Also you get to see how much stuff is stuck to the magnet.The filter is not necessarily all that expensive in the context of labour costs and new fluid cost so you might as well stick a new one on, unless you know the one removed is quite new.
A single fluid change will only change about two thirds of the fluid, the rest remaining trapped inside the torque converter. Always use exactly the right fluid.
There is an argument for saying "if the fluid's knackered the box is knackered" but that's not always the case.
In my book a precautionary fluid and filter change around 10 years or 100,000 miles is unlikely to be wrong. It's cheaper than a rebuild so has an element of "insurance" about it.
...and if you're worried about your transmission fluid, what about that diff oil? Especially if you've got some fancy LSD.
montyjohn said:
assuming your box has a drain, you can save a lot of faff by just changing some of the oil, on a regular basis and leave the filter and pan in place.
Very true. Whether or not the pan is dropped it's essential to get the fluid level exactly right on refill. Car precisely level, temperature appropriate, correct procedure followed. It's not as simple as an engine oil change.
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