Checking engine power is as it should be…
Discussion
….without a rolling road?
I have a rear wheel drive V8 that everyone says can be a handful due to the power, yet I’ve barely got it out of line even on a track day, other than booting it on some wet leaves.
Maybe I’m too cautious in the wet and not aggressive enough in the dry, so my thought was is the engine producing the power it should be?
So how can I check without resorting to a rolling road?
I could compare the cars 30-70mph time to road tests of the time? 0-60mph road test times were apparently obtained in a manner I’m not keen to replicate….
Is there an app that can convert acceleration into torque, hence into power?
Any other methods?
I have a rear wheel drive V8 that everyone says can be a handful due to the power, yet I’ve barely got it out of line even on a track day, other than booting it on some wet leaves.
Maybe I’m too cautious in the wet and not aggressive enough in the dry, so my thought was is the engine producing the power it should be?
So how can I check without resorting to a rolling road?
I could compare the cars 30-70mph time to road tests of the time? 0-60mph road test times were apparently obtained in a manner I’m not keen to replicate….
Is there an app that can convert acceleration into torque, hence into power?
Any other methods?
Easiest option is to find another owner of the same car locally so you can compare the performance of the 2 cars side by side.
Looking at your garage I can see the car I think you are talking about, and it just happens I have one too.
I've never found it a handful even when driving quite spiritedly.
The only exception is driving in snow, which it struggled with until I invested in a set of winter tyres
Looking at your garage I can see the car I think you are talking about, and it just happens I have one too.
I've never found it a handful even when driving quite spiritedly.
The only exception is driving in snow, which it struggled with until I invested in a set of winter tyres
Unless there is a mechanical fault such as the timing being wrong, low compression, etc then if there are no fault codes it should be ok.
Even then, if the timing is out it will probably throw a code.
I assume this is the V8 listed in your garage, in which case I would have not expected any modern 260bhp rear wheel to be a 'handful'.
Even then, if the timing is out it will probably throw a code.
I assume this is the V8 listed in your garage, in which case I would have not expected any modern 260bhp rear wheel to be a 'handful'.
Baldchap said:
Dragy will measure stuff and then allow you to compare against the same make/model.
Or just get it dynod. You get the answer you need with no bulls
t and you know it's accurate.
How "accurate" ? considering the plethora of variables ? They all read different, operators will have different views as to how runs should be done, how data should be manipulated etc etc.Or just get it dynod. You get the answer you need with no bulls
t and you know it's accurate. Some read fairy dust numbers to keep customers happy, others read low numbers which makes customers sad. Somewhere between might be "accurate" whatever that term means.
Comparing short road accel stats can be of some use, but again subject to variables, be it weather, road conditions, driver etc And you'd need stats from others under the same test conditions to compare to. If you do not have such data, single tests would again become a little meaningless
What exactly is the vehicle, and why should it be a handful ? Is it like 6 ,7, 800hp ? more ? less ?
A rolling road etc can be useful, but if you've nothing to compare before/after to, numbers can get a bit lost. Although if it was a mile off where you think they should be, maybe there is an issue.
If you are tuning before and after where you can see changes, this is exactly what dynos are for, seeing changes whilst you are there making tuning changes.
Trying to compare numbers to different machines, in different countries, different environments....is always going to yield different results be they right, wrong, middle....or "accurate"
stevieturbo said:
What exactly is the vehicle, and why should it be a handful ? Is it like 6 ,7, 800hp ? more ? less ?
Nothing so extravagant! 
, it’s a MG ZT 260, so only 260 PS, or 256 bhp in old bhp. I didn’t think it was that relevant what car it was (nor is that it’s a V8 I guess), but it’s in the ‘garage’ as people have found.‘Handful’ because it seems to have the reputation or myth of being tail happy, but I don’t find it quite like that!
Tail happy can also be down to suspension design and tyres. Tyres have improved markedly since the MG was new, so perhaps that alone has sorted its reputation?
As for the health of the engine, wouldn’t it be an idea to, if possible, attach a laptop to the OBD plug and measure real time oxygen flow, grammes per second or whatever? That’s something that is pretty definitive, and as long as the closed loop of cat and O2 sensors are all as they should be, you’ll have your answer.
I’ve driven a few cars with certain reputations that I’ve had to be almost violent with to achieve the undesired effect. Maybe you have mechanical sympathy too?
As for the health of the engine, wouldn’t it be an idea to, if possible, attach a laptop to the OBD plug and measure real time oxygen flow, grammes per second or whatever? That’s something that is pretty definitive, and as long as the closed loop of cat and O2 sensors are all as they should be, you’ll have your answer.
I’ve driven a few cars with certain reputations that I’ve had to be almost violent with to achieve the undesired effect. Maybe you have mechanical sympathy too?
Dashnine said:
Nothing so extravagant! , it’s a MG ZT 260, so only 260 PS, or 256 bhp in old bhp. I didn’t think it was that relevant what car it was (nor is that it’s a V8 I guess), but it’s in the ‘garage’ as people have found.
‘Handful’ because it seems to have the reputation or myth of being tail happy, but I don’t find it quite like that!
I had one of these years ago. I found it very lazy, couldn't call it fast at all., it’s a MG ZT 260, so only 260 PS, or 256 bhp in old bhp. I didn’t think it was that relevant what car it was (nor is that it’s a V8 I guess), but it’s in the ‘garage’ as people have found.‘Handful’ because it seems to have the reputation or myth of being tail happy, but I don’t find it quite like that!
Had to be provoked to miss behave, turning its TC off and booting it hard it first or second when turning.
Sounded lovely though with the Xpower back boxes.
I'd be temped to book it in for a RR session, once you're happy the basic servicing is tip top.
Tony1963 said:
Tail happy can also be down to suspension design and tyres. Tyres have improved markedly since the MG was new, so perhaps that alone has sorted its reputation?
Yes, and it’s reckoned to have a pretty good suspension setup, Prodrive originally before MGR took it back in house. The tyres are Chinese ditchfinders ( I bought the car with them on) but do seem good and I thought I’d have worn them out a bit by now but they seem to be hanging on. So you’d have thought not particularly grippy tyres might bolster the reputation as well.Tony1963 said:
As for the health of the engine, wouldn’t it be an idea to, if possible, attach a laptop to the OBD plug and measure real time oxygen flow, grammes per second or whatever? That’s something that is pretty definitive, and as long as the closed loop of cat and O2 sensors are all as they should be, you’ll have your answer.
I have a ODB scanner and app, but wasn’t really quite sure what to measure and compare against!Tony1963 said:
I’ve driven a few cars with certain reputations that I’ve had to be almost violent with to achieve the undesired effect. Maybe you have mechanical sympathy too?
This too, I think I do drive with an element of self and car preservation in mind. On the trackday I did (at Donington) the back did step out a couple of times at the Melbourne Hairpin but that was about as much as I’ve been able to provoke in the dry!Lester H said:
No need for rolling road.Drive a similar car.The late Laurence Pomeroy of Daimler, Vauxhall and aircraft engineering famously said " If you have to measure an improvement, you haven't got one. "
The cars (MG ZT 260) are a bit few and far between, a lot have been fiddled with, up to and including superchargers, and most owners are a bit precious of their cars! Not looking to check an improvement, I want to make sure most of the horses are still present.
Dashnine said:
Lester H said:
No need for rolling road.Drive a similar car.The late Laurence Pomeroy of Daimler, Vauxhall and aircraft engineering famously said " If you have to measure an improvement, you haven't got one. "
The cars (MG ZT 260) are a bit few and far between, a lot have been fiddled with, up to and including superchargers, and most owners are a bit precious of their cars! Not looking to check an improvement, I want to make sure most of the horses are still present.
Dashnine said:
I have a rear wheel drive V8 that everyone says can be a handful due to the power, yet I’ve barely got it out of line even on a track day, other than booting it on some wet leaves.
At the power levels you're drealing with and under dry grippy conditions you'd need considerable lateral acceleration to take you near eough to the limit of grip to experience power induced oversteer. If you're driving smoothly and staying a tenth or so away from the ragged edge of grip it's quite possible you will be able to use full throttle routinely without any problem.What's more likely to be a problem is poor driving technique causing body motion transients, and simply over estimating the available grip in poor conditions. Drivers who assume you can just throw the car into any corner and bury the loud pedal could be caught by surprise when they do eventually reach the limit of available grip. That's the sort of thing that gets a mass produced car a reputation for bad handling, because so many modern cars are designed to be idiot proof.
Dashnine said:
Nothing so extravagant! , it’s a MG ZT 260, so only 260 PS, or 256 bhp in old bhp. I didn’t think it was that relevant what car it was (nor is that it’s a V8 I guess), but it’s in the ‘garage’ as people have found.
‘Handful’ because it seems to have the reputation or myth of being tail happy, but I don’t find it quite like that!
It's a pretty low powered car, with a downtuned V8 which was already also lowish power. I can't see any reason why it would be considered a handful., it’s a MG ZT 260, so only 260 PS, or 256 bhp in old bhp. I didn’t think it was that relevant what car it was (nor is that it’s a V8 I guess), but it’s in the ‘garage’ as people have found.‘Handful’ because it seems to have the reputation or myth of being tail happy, but I don’t find it quite like that!
The power was deliberately kept low on them to try and preserve the transmission used I believe.
If you want more power, I'm sure there are plenty of relatively easy tuning options for it though.
stevieturbo said:
It's a pretty low powered car, with a downtuned V8 which was already also lowish power. I can't see any reason why it would be considered a handful.
The power was deliberately kept low on them to try and preserve the transmission used I believe.
If you want more power, I'm sure there are plenty of relatively easy tuning options for it though.
Agreed, but the power being low was because what it was out of the Mustang donor. The higher powered supercharged version that was planned as the next level never made the light of day (bar one for a director) also used the same gearbox so I don’t think that was the reason for it only having 260bhp.The power was deliberately kept low on them to try and preserve the transmission used I believe.
If you want more power, I'm sure there are plenty of relatively easy tuning options for it though.
The most popular tuning option (other than minor upgrades like a bigger throttle body) is the supercharger with a number of different installations available.
Dashnine said:
Agreed, but the power being low was because what it was out of the Mustang donor. The higher powered supercharged version that was planned as the next level never made the light of day (bar one for a director) also used the same gearbox so I don’t think that was the reason for it only having 260bhp.
The most popular tuning option (other than minor upgrades like a bigger throttle body) is the supercharger with a number of different installations available.
even n/a there should be scope for very easy power upgrades. Although I'm sure some re-tuning of existing ecu would yield more before even touching heads, cam, exhaust etcThe most popular tuning option (other than minor upgrades like a bigger throttle body) is the supercharger with a number of different installations available.
Although they'd be obvious choices for upgrades.
various tests from RH
https://www.youtube.com/@richardholdener1727/searc...
Edited by stevieturbo on Saturday 26th November 20:56
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