BMW 520d F11 - AA says Timing Chain
Discussion
Morning all,
Just looking to share the problem with my motor in hope to spark some positivity with the situation I'm in. My car won't start, it's a BMW 520d M Sport Touring 2012 (F11) auto. Here's a run down of events leading up to where I am today. I've owned the car for 3 years, it's on 104k and serviced annually, I only do around 10,000 miles pa.
Around two weeks ago I came to start the car up but it didn't start immediately, there was a loud clicking coming from somewhere under the bonnet, a couple of attempts later and the engine started up. It was as if the battery wasn't producing enough power. First ever problem with the car. I took the car for a 100 mile trip a few days later.
The battery warning light has come on a few times when the ignition is left on for around 5 minutes over the last two weeks, so i had planned to purchase a new battery, I think it's the original!
Last week I came to start the car up, it'd been sat for around 12 hours, the car wouldn't start, same as previously experienced a loud clicking noise but this time wouldn't start after a few attempts. I put it down to something not engaging but wasn't so sure. I got some jump leads and managed to get the car going. When the engine started it was really rough, it cut out after around 20 seconds then wouldn't start even with jump leads. Now the car is not making the clicking noise, and the battery warning light is on, though it is making noise / all electrics on and seem fine.
I called the AA who came out hoping they'd diagnose the battery/alternator/starter motor. They popped their power pack on but no joy. They plugged their diagnostic tool in, I have popped a copy of the fault codes below.
Does anyone have any thoughts and opinions? The AA man suggested the crank sensor or worse the timing chain had snapped, though I think it's unlikely. When the engine cut out there was no unusual noise, no warning lights on the dash either.However because of this, I was reluctant to get towed to a garage as the costs maybe more than I would be willing to pay or maybe better suited at a specialist garage. Luckily the car is at home on the drive. My thoughts are crank sensor,glow plugs,fuel injectors dirty, fuel pump etc. I'd like to try and get the issue diagnosed possibly by a mobile mechanic.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Just looking to share the problem with my motor in hope to spark some positivity with the situation I'm in. My car won't start, it's a BMW 520d M Sport Touring 2012 (F11) auto. Here's a run down of events leading up to where I am today. I've owned the car for 3 years, it's on 104k and serviced annually, I only do around 10,000 miles pa.
Around two weeks ago I came to start the car up but it didn't start immediately, there was a loud clicking coming from somewhere under the bonnet, a couple of attempts later and the engine started up. It was as if the battery wasn't producing enough power. First ever problem with the car. I took the car for a 100 mile trip a few days later.
The battery warning light has come on a few times when the ignition is left on for around 5 minutes over the last two weeks, so i had planned to purchase a new battery, I think it's the original!
Last week I came to start the car up, it'd been sat for around 12 hours, the car wouldn't start, same as previously experienced a loud clicking noise but this time wouldn't start after a few attempts. I put it down to something not engaging but wasn't so sure. I got some jump leads and managed to get the car going. When the engine started it was really rough, it cut out after around 20 seconds then wouldn't start even with jump leads. Now the car is not making the clicking noise, and the battery warning light is on, though it is making noise / all electrics on and seem fine.
I called the AA who came out hoping they'd diagnose the battery/alternator/starter motor. They popped their power pack on but no joy. They plugged their diagnostic tool in, I have popped a copy of the fault codes below.
Does anyone have any thoughts and opinions? The AA man suggested the crank sensor or worse the timing chain had snapped, though I think it's unlikely. When the engine cut out there was no unusual noise, no warning lights on the dash either.However because of this, I was reluctant to get towed to a garage as the costs maybe more than I would be willing to pay or maybe better suited at a specialist garage. Luckily the car is at home on the drive. My thoughts are crank sensor,glow plugs,fuel injectors dirty, fuel pump etc. I'd like to try and get the issue diagnosed possibly by a mobile mechanic.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Edited by rick-eu7q0 on Thursday 5th May 05:56
It’s the correct age and mileage for the timing chain to fail and from what you describe happens before it failed to start it could very well being a stretched or jumped chain, what really should have happened is when it first started to play up you should have got it looked at.
Had you said it turned over as normal but wouldn’t start I would have thought a sensor but the loud clicking noises make me think it’s most likely the chain. Catch them early and it can be a £1200 job, let them fail and it can be an engine.
Had you said it turned over as normal but wouldn’t start I would have thought a sensor but the loud clicking noises make me think it’s most likely the chain. Catch them early and it can be a £1200 job, let them fail and it can be an engine.
Forgive my ignorance here, is this the engine design with the timing chain at the back of the engine, presumably requiring engine or gearbox removal to replace?
Anyone any clue why they designed it this way.
For the OP, if this were me i'd enlist the help of one of the many BMW specialist indies dotted about the country, maybe he'd visit and diagnose with a view to having the car transported for repair (if feasable), unless anyone knows of a good mobile specialist who could do the job where the car sits.
Anyone any clue why they designed it this way.
For the OP, if this were me i'd enlist the help of one of the many BMW specialist indies dotted about the country, maybe he'd visit and diagnose with a view to having the car transported for repair (if feasable), unless anyone knows of a good mobile specialist who could do the job where the car sits.
Smint said:
Forgive my ignorance here, is this the engine design with the timing chain at the back of the engine, presumably requiring engine or gearbox removal to replace?
Anyone any clue why they designed it this way.
For the OP, if this were me i'd enlist the help of one of the many BMW specialist indies dotted about the country, maybe he'd visit and diagnose with a view to having the car transported for repair (if feasable), unless anyone knows of a good mobile specialist who could do the job where the car sits.
Yes, 3 chains at the back, you can drop the gearbox and then change the chains, if you catch it early enough its relatively simple, if you leave it and let it go then there is a chance its smashes up the top of the engine - the cam carriers.Anyone any clue why they designed it this way.
For the OP, if this were me i'd enlist the help of one of the many BMW specialist indies dotted about the country, maybe he'd visit and diagnose with a view to having the car transported for repair (if feasable), unless anyone knows of a good mobile specialist who could do the job where the car sits.
stevemcs said:
Yes, 3 chains at the back, you can drop the gearbox and then change the chains, if you catch it early enough its relatively simple, if you leave it and let it go then there is a chance its smashes up the top of the engine - the cam carriers.
Much obliged to my learned friend.3 chains? treble the trouble.
I've had loud clicking noises when a battery has been too low to start the car.
Also had plenty of funny codes thrown up on a variety of cars if the battery is too low, especially sensors and so on.
The battery warning light was on too.
Call me optimistic, but personally I'd wang a battery on there just for the sake of it, realistically it's probably shagged anyway so if it doesn't fix it, it's one less thing to pay for whilst you're fixing whatever else has broken.
Sorry I just don't see how all of the above symptoms would point to timing chain snappage, quite why that'd make oil sensors read funny and battery warning lights etc. I don't understand.
Yes they put their power pack on but who knows, if you're looking at £1200 as a minimum, slinging £100 at a battery that you're probably going to need anyway doesn't seem the worst idea in the world just in case
Also had plenty of funny codes thrown up on a variety of cars if the battery is too low, especially sensors and so on.
The battery warning light was on too.
Call me optimistic, but personally I'd wang a battery on there just for the sake of it, realistically it's probably shagged anyway so if it doesn't fix it, it's one less thing to pay for whilst you're fixing whatever else has broken.
Sorry I just don't see how all of the above symptoms would point to timing chain snappage, quite why that'd make oil sensors read funny and battery warning lights etc. I don't understand.
Yes they put their power pack on but who knows, if you're looking at £1200 as a minimum, slinging £100 at a battery that you're probably going to need anyway doesn't seem the worst idea in the world just in case
Evening all, well I’ve been reading the messages coming in and was hoping for “definitely not the timing chain” but it seems I shouldn’t have been so optimistic ?
The timing chain snapping doesn’t explain why the car wouldn’t originally start and why the symptoms were experienced before hand. The stop/start hasn’t worked on the car since winter, so another indicator the battery is goosed, so i’m going to change that and see if it gives us any more hope. A possible quick fix and something that will need doing regardless.
Having looked under the engine and a pole around, it looks like there’s a bit of an oil leak on the engine, coming from the very top of the engine and running down, so maybe the engine is running low on oil also. Never had any warning lights on though and the dipstick is above the minimum mark.
On reflection, the car has sometimes felt a little rough for the first 20 seconds on start up sometimes, but nothing of great concern. Maybe worth me changing the fuel filter too!
Thanks all for the input so far, I will report back!
SturdyHSV said:
Call me optimistic, but personally I'd wang a battery on there just for the sake of it, realistically it's probably shagged anyway so if it doesn't fix it, it's one less thing to pay for whilst you're fixing whatever else has broken.
Sorry I just don't see how all of the above symptoms would point to timing chain snappage, quite why that'd make oil sensors read funny and battery warning lights etc. I don't understand.
Well I must say, I agree with what you’re saying. The only thing that makes me think possibly the timing chain is the crankshaft sensor fault code and the dieing after running rough.Sorry I just don't see how all of the above symptoms would point to timing chain snappage, quite why that'd make oil sensors read funny and battery warning lights etc. I don't understand.
The timing chain snapping doesn’t explain why the car wouldn’t originally start and why the symptoms were experienced before hand. The stop/start hasn’t worked on the car since winter, so another indicator the battery is goosed, so i’m going to change that and see if it gives us any more hope. A possible quick fix and something that will need doing regardless.
Having looked under the engine and a pole around, it looks like there’s a bit of an oil leak on the engine, coming from the very top of the engine and running down, so maybe the engine is running low on oil also. Never had any warning lights on though and the dipstick is above the minimum mark.
On reflection, the car has sometimes felt a little rough for the first 20 seconds on start up sometimes, but nothing of great concern. Maybe worth me changing the fuel filter too!
Thanks all for the input so far, I will report back!
Edited by RickA310190 on Saturday 7th May 19:08
Wasting your time OP. Get a compression check done on it.
Oil pressure is a red herring - its says it's improbable. This could well be related to the timing chain issue (it's outside range for the rpm the ECU thinks the engine is running at for example), or it's just a faulty sensor. Hardly unknown on these engines.
It's not a fuel filter either I'm sorry to say.
Oil pressure is a red herring - its says it's improbable. This could well be related to the timing chain issue (it's outside range for the rpm the ECU thinks the engine is running at for example), or it's just a faulty sensor. Hardly unknown on these engines.
It's not a fuel filter either I'm sorry to say.
I wouldn't be paying much heed to any of those codes. There are just too many and you have no idea when they were logged.
instances of a poor battery can cause all manner of codes too.
First things first, either get a new battery, or ensure your battery is good. If the engine is already f
ked, cranking it over some more will hardly matter.
Although you could wind it over by hand to feel how things are before cranking it. If it feels ok, but still will not start, get a competent garage to scope crank/cam to see if the triggers are all still in alignment, and you could either do a compression test or relative compression test.
Although if something is badly fked, the latter although easier to do, may not be as useful if all cylinder are buggered.
Wasting money buying random parts is just that, wasting money
instances of a poor battery can cause all manner of codes too.
First things first, either get a new battery, or ensure your battery is good. If the engine is already f
ked, cranking it over some more will hardly matter.Although you could wind it over by hand to feel how things are before cranking it. If it feels ok, but still will not start, get a competent garage to scope crank/cam to see if the triggers are all still in alignment, and you could either do a compression test or relative compression test.
Although if something is badly f
ked, the latter although easier to do, may not be as useful if all cylinder are buggered.Wasting money buying random parts is just that, wasting money
stevieturbo said:
I wouldn't be paying much heed to any of those codes. There are just too many and you have no idea when they were logged.
instances of a poor battery can cause all manner of codes too.
First things first, either get a new battery, or ensure your battery is good. If the engine is already fked, cranking it over some more will hardly matter.
Although you could wind it over by hand to feel how things are before cranking it. If it feels ok, but still will not start, get a competent garage to scope crank/cam to see if the triggers are all still in alignment, and you could either do a compression test or relative compression test.
Although if something is badly fked, the latter although easier to do, may not be as useful if all cylinder are buggered.
Wasting money buying random parts is just that, wasting money
This ^ those codes are all indicative of a discharged battery where the ECM just throws out spurious junk/ghost codes due to the low voltage , they need to be cleared a decent battery and cranked like mentioned above , someone who can correctly read/interprit live scanner data would be a bonus if this fails instances of a poor battery can cause all manner of codes too.
First things first, either get a new battery, or ensure your battery is good. If the engine is already f
ked, cranking it over some more will hardly matter.Although you could wind it over by hand to feel how things are before cranking it. If it feels ok, but still will not start, get a competent garage to scope crank/cam to see if the triggers are all still in alignment, and you could either do a compression test or relative compression test.
Although if something is badly f
ked, the latter although easier to do, may not be as useful if all cylinder are buggered.Wasting money buying random parts is just that, wasting money
Zener said:
This ^ those codes are all indicative of a discharged battery where the ECM just throws out spurious junk/ghost codes due to the low voltage , they need to be cleared a decent battery and cranked like mentioned above , someone who can correctly read/interprit live scanner data would be a bonus if this fails
Indeed. Something which can happen on some BMWs is that someone gets the battery replaced at a local garage etc but the battery replacement is not registered through BMW'S diagnostic system or a capable third party tool.The ECU kindly compensates for the age of the battery by increasing the alternators output to increase charge and obviously if the battery is replaced and the ECU doesn't know the results can be disastrous. Don't know how many or what BMW models this applies to though.
In terms of anything surrounding his timing chain I don't know a lot about BMW but on Mercedes there is the camshaft adaptation value which can be used to determine how much the ECU is compensating for the chain working a longer path due to worn guides/tensioners etc. They can sometimes throw an error code as the value approaches an unacceptable value before you stray so far as to the piston and valves colliding
I'm aware it's not much help and MB is different to BMW but I'm just assuming they might use similar principles
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