What caused this Mini block damage?

[geeman237]

Check out this video of a US car channel disassembling a classic Mini A series engine. When they remove the head they find 2 serious gouges on the block to head surface. What do our engine experts think caused them, and can the block be saved? I’m curious, but serious ham fisted efforts were probably involved.

https://youtu.be/M4DHcDrTHuQ

Fast fwd to 5.30min in

Edited by geeman237 on Monday 6th December 18:06

[stevieturbo]

There is no way "erosion" has caused that, without totally decimating a few dozen head gaskets.

And even then, there is no way cast iron is getting eroded like that...on one cylinder, let alone more than one.

And why did it look like there were 2 head gaskets ?

And there seems no suggestion of head damage either.

Someone has gouged those out, for whatever reason. Cast iron simply does not go like that, the HG will always go first.

As for repair, I'm sure someone could weld it or fill it with something,

[tapkaJohnD]

Someone had difficulty getting the head off, and hammered in a screwdriver.

Nothing else, especially not "erosion"!!!

[HJG]

tapkaJohnD said:

Someone had difficulty getting the head off, and hammered in a screwdriver.

Nothing else, especially not "erosion"!!!

I shudder at the thought of it, but I agree.

[E-bmw]

Definitely not erosion, that it mechanical abuse of some description.

[Smint]

One time i'd have had to do worse than that to get the head off an 1850 (non Sprint)Triumph Dolomite, so bad was the corrosion between the steel studs and the alloy cyl head that is was a case of get another engine from the scrap yard and start again.

[Zener]

Nothing to add to the above comments thats man made damage simple as that whats worse is someone built that put it together like that

[stevieturbo]

It does also seem odd, that someone who appears to operate a garage, and do rebuilds etc etc....would even think that could possibly be erosion.

[LimSlip]

tapkaJohnD said:

Someone had difficulty getting the head off, and hammered in a screwdriver.

Nothing else, especially not "erosion"!!!

That could explain one of the gouges that goes all the way from the outside to a cylinder, but how could the damage start from the cylinder and only go halfway out? Looks more like someone took an angle grinder to it whilst the head was off.

[oakdale]

I think it's a piss take, it wouldn't run for five minutes before the gasket blew with grooves in the block like that, most likely done after the head was removed to create a mystery and get more you tube views.

[Boosted LS1]

LimSlip said:

tapkaJohnD said:

Someone had difficulty getting the head off, and hammered in a screwdriver.

Nothing else, especially not "erosion"!!!

That could explain one of the gouges that goes all the way from the outside to a cylinder, but how could the damage start from the cylinder and only go halfway out? .

I was thinking that if the head's located on studs then it jammed after it had been raised a short distance. Then somebody was able to slide a lever right under the head. It would also explain why the gouges seem wider/deeper inboard the block.

ETA. on one bore the gouge is are notched into the cylinder so there's no way the gasket would have held. Oddly we don't see the underside of the gasket when it's removed.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Thursday 9th December 09:03

[tapkaJohnD]

Watching the video further in, there's a close up of one groove at 13:05. The surface appearance inside the groove does look odd, rather like a channel in beach sand as water flows through it! Smooth and rippled, not sharp edged. So maybe the guy making the video has a case. But I'd insist that the grooves were man (or spanner monkey) made, even if they were worsened and shaped by 'erosion'.

John

[stevieturbo]

Boosted LS1 said:

ETA. on one bore the gouge is are notched into the cylinder so there's no way the gasket would have held. Oddly we don't see the underside of the gasket when it's removed.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Thursday 9th December 09:03

Don't really need to. I'd guess the engine was in a poor state when it arrived with him for teardown.

It isn't implied anywhere it was a good or even bad running engine at that point. So potentially someone has thrown it together to get shot of it, and it has then ended up there. Perhaps sold as a non runner etc.

So HG condition....probably irrelevant. A copper ( or composite ) gasket would have got blasted away in short time if it had been running though. That gasket looked largely ok.
Although I do still think it looked like 2 gaskets ? one still stuck to the head.

[Boosted LS1]

^ I wondered if the underside of the head gasket had a similar witness mark. We never got to see it.

[Zener]

stevieturbo said:

Boosted LS1 said:

ETA. on one bore the gouge is are notched into the cylinder so there's no way the gasket would have held. Oddly we don't see the underside of the gasket when it's removed.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Thursday 9th December 09:03

Don't really need to. I'd guess the engine was in a poor state when it arrived with him for teardown.

It isn't implied anywhere it was a good or even bad running engine at that point. So potentially someone has thrown it together to get shot of it, and it has then ended up there. Perhaps sold as a non runner etc.

So HG condition....probably irrelevant. A copper ( or composite ) gasket would have got blasted away in short time if it had been running though. That gasket looked largely ok.
Although I do still think it looked like 2 gaskets ? one still stuck to the head.

Stevie I think that may be Permatex copper remains on the head seen that reisidue before and it looks just like that , its good stuff but it was never going to fill those voids as you know

[stevieturbo]

Boosted LS1 said:

^ I wondered if the underside of the head gasket had a similar witness mark. We never got to see it.

Yes, but there is no guarantee the engine had actually ran with that head gasket. It may have been thrown together for purposes of selling or getting rid of the engine "complete".

I always despised those copper gaskets anyway. Just rubbish.

[geeman237]

Here's a follow up video on the Hagerty YouTube channel of the machining of the block and head work.

https://youtu.be/OpJYdmsHkUE