N55 vs EA888 vs B58

[Dylanaledhall]

So we all know the capabilities of a mk7 Golf R:

Stage 1 - circa 370bhp
Stage 2 - circa 400bhp
Stage 3 - 450-500+bhp

Now this is a 2.0 4 cyl engine, can someone explain to me why not many M135i owners take their M135i past stage 2 level? It uses the n55 3.0 6cyl but for some reason I've only seen a couple fitted with hybrid turbos.

It's puzzling me because loads of M140i owners take their m lites to stage 3 level which in some instances reach 600-700bhp (with methanol and ethanol of course). I just wanted to know why the N55 isn't as tunable as the B58 ? And why more people push the EA888 in the Golf R rather than the N55?

Thanks

[Earthdweller]

Demographics of buyers ?

[jimPH]

N55 is open deck, b58 is closed. But I think a lot of young chaps got more deals on new M140i's over the production run, so there are more 140's about sporting mods.

However, that 1 series chassis can't take more than a remap anyway, it was plenty in my view.

[Dylanaledhall]

jimPH said:

N55 is open deck, b58 is closed. But I think a lot of young chaps got more deals on new M140i's over the production run, so there are more 140's about sporting mods.

However, that 1 series chassis can't take more than a remap anyway, it was plenty in my view.

Cheers

[Dylanaledhall]

Something else worth mentioning, although I own a Fiesta ST I am in the m135i/m140i groups and something that seems quite prevalent recently is the rising case of engine failures. Apparently it's something to do with the sump leading to oil starvation. Seems to be a recurring theme which is quite worrying for someone like myself that is very interested in the M135i.

[DVandrews]

I have experience of all 3 engines, my 335i was an N55 and while it as a good engine, it isn’t a patch on the B58 in my 440i which is an absolute peach, the bottom end is a lot more solid as the deck is closed and the turbo has a higher capacity then the one installed on the N55 so it responds really well to a first stage map, the N55 always seemed a little breathless when pushed. Both of the wife’s S3s have had EA888 engines (pre and post GPF) and in their characteristics they are similar to the B58 , but IMHO they run out of steam in the higher part of the rev band in the same way as the N55 does. The N55 sometimes suffers with disintegration of the oil filter which can cause bearing failure. I think the N55 has been considered more fragile than the earlier N54 (which was twin turbo) , but with the B58, failures are rarer.

Dave

[TekoTime]

"Stages" are entirely arbitrary and mean absolutely nothing. One tuner's stage 2 could be very different to another tuner's stage 2.

[aka_kerrly]

All this talk of stage this stage that...

In the OP there is talk of 600-700hp M140s, 500hp Golf Rs as if there are tens of thousands of them on the UK roads, clearly not.

Perhaps the reason M135i owners don't seem to feel the need to go too far beyond "stage 2" is that is around 400hp/450lbft which is a fairly bonkers amount of performance for a car!!

[stevieturbo]

TekoTime said:

"Stages" are entirely arbitrary and mean absolutely nothing. One tuner's stage 2 could be very different to another tuner's stage 2.

Very true, and of course Golf's are like Corsas, common as muck so vastly more of them on the roads.

[DVandrews]

TekoTime said:

"Stages" are entirely arbitrary and mean absolutely nothing. One tuner's stage 2 could be very different to another tuner's stage 2.

As an engine builder I agree, but loosely, stage 1 is usually a remap with no hardware mods, stage 2 is a remap with easy bolt-ons (downpipe, air filter, turbo elbow etc), stage 3 would be custom ap hybrid turbo, FMIC , meth et al..

Dave

[jimPH]

DVandrews said:

TekoTime said:

"Stages" are entirely arbitrary and mean absolutely nothing. One tuner's stage 2 could be very different to another tuner's stage 2.

As an engine builder I agree, but loosely, stage 1 is usually a remap with no hardware mods, stage 2 is a remap with easy bolt-ons (downpipe, air filter, turbo elbow etc), stage 3 would be custom ap hybrid turbo, FMIC , meth et al..

Dave

It's a bit better thought out than that.

The stages are specific to each model and each stage requires a remap.

The stages are dependent on the most restrictive component and removing that restriction, so if your air intake is the most restrictive, stage 1 is new intakes and a remap. If the next is the exhaust, then its a new exhaust plus filters plus a remap and so on.

Edited by jimPH on Tuesday 2nd November 08:08

[DVandrews]

jimPH said:

It's a bit better thought out than that.

The stages are specific to each model and each stage requires a remap.

The stages are dependent on the most restrictive component and removing that restriction, so if your air intake is the most restrictive, stage 1 is new intakes and a remap. If the next is the exhaust, then its a new exhaust plus filters plus a remap and so on.

Edited by jimPH on Tuesday 2nd November 08:08

Of course it is engine/installation specific, that is why I used the term ‘loosely’; iit requires some interpretation and some common sense to typify it. As a generic explanation it gives an idea of what may need to be done. Further research would yield the path for each installation.

Dave

Edited by DVandrews on Tuesday 2nd November 08:53

[Gerradi]

stevieturbo said:

Very true, and of course Golf's are like Corsas, common as muck so vastly more of them on the roads.

There, did that make you feel better?...Better out than in...eh...

[liner33]

It’s a cost thing with the n55 , it’s reasonably cheap to get to 410hp but much beyond that requires a lot more money, you start getting into turbos , fuel pumps and injectors. It’s strong enough and many have tuned to over 600hp but it’s cheaper to tune the b58 by far.

Personally I’m not a fan of the b58 I find it unrewarding to rev and prefers just to surf the torque curve , the n55 encourages you to chase the red line, plus it sounds better (subjective I know)

The EA888 is another as I understand , plenty at 400hp reliably but far fewer chasing 500hp plus but they are cheaper again to get there than the n55