Ford Puma 1.7 tuning options
Discussion
This follows on from my Ka project question - it appears the easiest starting point for a Ka with reasonable poke is to drop in the 1.7 engine from the Puma. This appears to be a cheap straight swap, judging by specialist prices to do the job.
The standard output of the 1.7 isn't enough for me. I used to own a Racing Puma which had IIRC 155 bhp, and I know it's possible to fit the FRP parts to the 1.7 to get this power reliably.
Anyone here with experience of tuning this engine further? Ideally I'd like 180+ bhp, but don't want a grenade. High revs is fine if the engine can take it... I thought this motor had nikasil liners and was built by Toyota? or something - and perhaps already has a forged crank? If so, would it be OK to raise power by going for a 8k rev limit on this car?
If I can't have FI torque then I'd like a really high revving screamer in the Ka, it'd be cool in an incongrous way.
Due to packaging, I don't think carbs or individual TBs are an option though.
All ideas welcomed!!!
:)
The standard output of the 1.7 isn't enough for me. I used to own a Racing Puma which had IIRC 155 bhp, and I know it's possible to fit the FRP parts to the 1.7 to get this power reliably.
Anyone here with experience of tuning this engine further? Ideally I'd like 180+ bhp, but don't want a grenade. High revs is fine if the engine can take it... I thought this motor had nikasil liners and was built by Toyota? or something - and perhaps already has a forged crank? If so, would it be OK to raise power by going for a 8k rev limit on this car?
If I can't have FI torque then I'd like a really high revving screamer in the Ka, it'd be cool in an incongrous way.
Due to packaging, I don't think carbs or individual TBs are an option though.
All ideas welcomed!!!
:)
Will the 1.6 Zetec/sigma fit? It should as it is the 1.6 puma engine. This is a beut of a motor apparently and more of a close relation to the Duratecs than the Zetec range.
Check out Mountune and Shawspeed.
www.shawspeed.com/fsigma.htm
Check out Mountune and Shawspeed.
www.shawspeed.com/fsigma.htm
xm5er said:
Will the 1.6 Zetec/sigma fit? It should as it is the 1.6 puma engine. This is a beut of a motor apparently and more of a close relation to the Duratecs than the Zetec range.
Check out Mountune and Shawspeed.
www.shawspeed.com/fsigma.htm
Wowser. 220 bhp, sounds just the job
Unfortunately all their kits from 150 bhp up use either twin Webers or Jenvey TBs - neither of which will fit under the bonnet of the Ka.
Pumaspeed claim to have a modified head for the FRP-spec 1.7 that gives 174 bhp, I guess this *may* just be quick enough...
i think i saw an artilce in some mag about a 2.0ltr zetec turbo being used in a KA!
also seen coosy engines used (through Mitsi EVO box's to creat a 4wd in 1 case)! so i geuse its down to the buget you have!
i peronaly would look into the 2.0Zetec route! this things are as comon as S**T and dirt cheap these days! also as they have been used in all sort of motorsop, and the new Duratec is out, tuning goodies should have come down in price! i recon a couple of grand should get you an easy 180bhp! and the 2.0ltrs have better torque!
thanks CHris.
also seen coosy engines used (through Mitsi EVO box's to creat a 4wd in 1 case)! so i geuse its down to the buget you have!
i peronaly would look into the 2.0Zetec route! this things are as comon as S**T and dirt cheap these days! also as they have been used in all sort of motorsop, and the new Duratec is out, tuning goodies should have come down in price! i recon a couple of grand should get you an easy 180bhp! and the 2.0ltrs have better torque!
thanks CHris.
cyberface said:
Wowser. 220 bhp, sounds just the job
Unfortunately all their kits from 150 bhp up use either twin Webers or Jenvey TBs - neither of which will fit under the bonnet of the Ka.
Pumaspeed claim to have a modified head for the FRP-spec 1.7 that gives 174 bhp, I guess this *may* just be quick enough...
Bummer!
What have Mountune done to the 1.6 class Puma rally car? May be worth a chat with them.
I would check out Pumabuild (www.pumabuild.co.uk). They charge about £1300 to get the standard Puma engine up to about 150 BHP (cams, exhaust, manifold, ECU). 170 BHP is possible with some head work, but this is going to cost around £1K more.
However, a couple words of warning: Puma engines aren't that cheap unless you find a second-hand one from a write-off and secondly, Ford don't make many of the parts available, so if something major goes wrong you are looking at a new block/head (expensive).
I am pretty sure that the 1.6 Zetec is not the engine used in the Super 1600 rally cars; this was actually the 1.7 sleeved down to 1.6 and with the VVT blocked off. From what I've heard from engine builders, the 1.6 has quite small valves and would require a fair amount of work to get to decent power ratings. However, you can pick them up much more cheaply than the 1.7 engine.
I would suggest that you also try www.pumapeople.com; there are a few people on there who have done the same conversion as you and may be able to help.
JP
However, a couple words of warning: Puma engines aren't that cheap unless you find a second-hand one from a write-off and secondly, Ford don't make many of the parts available, so if something major goes wrong you are looking at a new block/head (expensive).
I am pretty sure that the 1.6 Zetec is not the engine used in the Super 1600 rally cars; this was actually the 1.7 sleeved down to 1.6 and with the VVT blocked off. From what I've heard from engine builders, the 1.6 has quite small valves and would require a fair amount of work to get to decent power ratings. However, you can pick them up much more cheaply than the 1.7 engine.
I would suggest that you also try www.pumapeople.com; there are a few people on there who have done the same conversion as you and may be able to help.
JP
The Puma 1.7 taken to full FRP spec is certainly possible and is a proven drop-in conversion from the likes of Pumaspeed etc. That's certainly one possibility, though taking the engine past 155 bhp looks pricey and potentially unreliable. Thanks for the info re: Ford not supplying the engines any more!!
I'm thinking the 2 litre Duratec motor, which is now being tuned and used in specialist cars anyway (Caterham) may be a better bet, given that it's ubiquitous and must be cheap to source.
I presume this engine is all alloy? Not sure if it'll fit in the Ka though, will have to keep researching...
I'm thinking the 2 litre Duratec motor, which is now being tuned and used in specialist cars anyway (Caterham) may be a better bet, given that it's ubiquitous and must be cheap to source.
I presume this engine is all alloy? Not sure if it'll fit in the Ka though, will have to keep researching...
ccharlie6 said:
i'd be surprised if the duratec is lighter than the K-Series engine, as the K is a super lightweight. the duratec has shown to make good power with westies driving about with up to 260bhp
the duratec 2.0 is about 97kgs how ever i've also seen the the quoted weight at 105kgs (with 'bits'). iirc K series weighs 89ks?
Sorry to drag this one up again.
Looks like the easy (i.e. == cheap) option is the Puma engine transplant. The bigger Duratecs (2.0, 2.3) are going to be tricky to get in with gearbox, and for power anyway I'd be needing to use TBs which won't get under the truncated front of the Ka.
Assuming I can get hold of a Racing Puma engine (155 bhp) which should be cheaper than building a standard Puma (125 bhp) engine up to FRP spec, we're effectively talking about a 880 kg car with 155 bhp, so in the region of 174 bhp/tonne.
Is this going to be enough for me? One snag I've thought of is engine weight: if the Puma lump is much heavier than the original Ka lump then the 880 kg target goes out the window.
So - anyone know? The Endura-E lump in the Ka is an iron block, but physically smaller. The Puma lump is all alloy. Would it even be lighter, by some chance?
Looks like the easy (i.e. == cheap) option is the Puma engine transplant. The bigger Duratecs (2.0, 2.3) are going to be tricky to get in with gearbox, and for power anyway I'd be needing to use TBs which won't get under the truncated front of the Ka.
Assuming I can get hold of a Racing Puma engine (155 bhp) which should be cheaper than building a standard Puma (125 bhp) engine up to FRP spec, we're effectively talking about a 880 kg car with 155 bhp, so in the region of 174 bhp/tonne.
Is this going to be enough for me? One snag I've thought of is engine weight: if the Puma lump is much heavier than the original Ka lump then the 880 kg target goes out the window.
So - anyone know? The Endura-E lump in the Ka is an iron block, but physically smaller. The Puma lump is all alloy. Would it even be lighter, by some chance?
Talk to Severn Valley Motorsport
www.severnvalleymotorsport.com/
There isnt anything up on their website at the moment, but they put a Cossie engine in the Ford Ka, with Penske shocks all round and NOS!
650bhp
I always wanted to make mine 4wd!
www.severnvalleymotorsport.com/
There isnt anything up on their website at the moment, but they put a Cossie engine in the Ford Ka, with Penske shocks all round and NOS!
650bhp
I always wanted to make mine 4wd!
canam-tt said:
Talk to Severn Valley Motorsport
www.severnvalleymotorsport.com/
There isnt anything up on their website at the moment, but they put a Cossie engine in the Ford Ka, with Penske shocks all round and NOS!
650bhp
I always wanted to make mine 4wd!
!
It appears there are people on the Pumapeople forum very unhappy with Severn Valley's work. After my experience with LAD and an Mi16 205, I will regrettably be avoiding any place with horror stories, learnt that from bitter experience
As to cosworth turbos and NOS, well it's meant to be a dual purpose project and must be insurable on the road (and drivable by my girlfriend, though that's a lesser concern as she has no trouble with other fast cars I've owned).... isn't NOS a complete impossibility to insure for road use?
Equally I'd rather have a proven performance screamer engine in such a light FWD car, than +60 lb ft at the push of a button, and instant wheelspin!! NOS sounds like a laugh and a bit of a gas (hey slap my thigh ho ho) but not really my cup of tea.
Shame really that my budget isn't unlimited and TBs aren't really an option, since the Puma 1.7 seems to be happy with 200+ bhp at 8250 rpm with the VCT cam gear junked and running on TBs with custom management. Assuming the build is reliable, that would be my favourite option.
Pumabuild seem to have the best rep so far, so I will speak to them and see how much we're talking - I'll also be wanting proper brakes, suspension and fat sticky A048Rs
they worked a treat on the 205 
juts looking at this from a difrent view, with a lot less restraints, why not just buy a second car?!?!?!
when i mena a second car im tlaking about a Kit car! something cheap thats already built. as long as you stay senciable on the power level you want then you could get a very nice locost or something (with about 150bhp) for a few grand! and then you have the best of both worlds!!!!
just another daft thought of mine!
Chris.
when i mena a second car im tlaking about a Kit car! something cheap thats already built. as long as you stay senciable on the power level you want then you could get a very nice locost or something (with about 150bhp) for a few grand! and then you have the best of both worlds!!!!
just another daft thought of mine!
Chris.
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