BMW N54/N55 in an older cars?
Discussion
Hi all, I'm mulling over a potential restomod project, I'd love to do and trying to get a better understanding of how to decide whether to keep the original power unit and gearbox or go to something significantly more modern to gain both greater performance, more easily and also things such as better mpg.
I can see that clearly the likes of Rocketeer do a kit to fit a Jag V6 into an MX5, are there other options out there such as aftermarket engine management systems that allow more modern engines to be fitted into an older car?
Has anyone seen, or done a retrofit of the BMW straight 6 turbo (and potentially it's ZF autobox) into an older car, and if so, how did they do it?
I can see that clearly the likes of Rocketeer do a kit to fit a Jag V6 into an MX5, are there other options out there such as aftermarket engine management systems that allow more modern engines to be fitted into an older car?
Has anyone seen, or done a retrofit of the BMW straight 6 turbo (and potentially it's ZF autobox) into an older car, and if so, how did they do it?
Mechanically it will be "easy"....well as easy as any other swap.
Electrically...it will not. And even more so retaining it's auto box.
You may need a substantial part or all of the cars OEM wiring loom, and potentially quite a few or all of the cars CAN based modules in order for the control units to be happy.
If it's just the engine....there are standalone ecu's that can run that no problem as a swap
Electrically...it will not. And even more so retaining it's auto box.
You may need a substantial part or all of the cars OEM wiring loom, and potentially quite a few or all of the cars CAN based modules in order for the control units to be happy.
If it's just the engine....there are standalone ecu's that can run that no problem as a swap
Ok thanks Stevie, I was wondering if the Auto complicated things significantly and from what you've said yes.
If just a standalone engine, would you suggest an aftermarket management system or using the stock one from the donor vehicle (assuming I was getting it from by breaking one)?
If just a standalone engine, would you suggest an aftermarket management system or using the stock one from the donor vehicle (assuming I was getting it from by breaking one)?
It isnt so much the transmission that will make it difficult.
It's retaining the factory ecu. But as that will also run or talk to any transmission controller....retaining the auto will add further complication.
But trying to use the factory ecu, that normally talks to and expects responses from other modules in the car will be the main challenge. Some cars are fussier than others, but most modern stuff is a bit of a nightmare.
With just the engine and a standalone ecu.....none of those problems exist. With the right ecu and development, it could probably control the trans too....but it's unlikely anyone has already done that. And it's not really a DIY task
That said....BMW DCT swaps have been done, there are options for that. Some better than others.
So it is perfectly feasible to run the engine with a standalone ecu, and another control box for a DCT transmission.
Automatics are a different story though
It's retaining the factory ecu. But as that will also run or talk to any transmission controller....retaining the auto will add further complication.
But trying to use the factory ecu, that normally talks to and expects responses from other modules in the car will be the main challenge. Some cars are fussier than others, but most modern stuff is a bit of a nightmare.
With just the engine and a standalone ecu.....none of those problems exist. With the right ecu and development, it could probably control the trans too....but it's unlikely anyone has already done that. And it's not really a DIY task
That said....BMW DCT swaps have been done, there are options for that. Some better than others.
So it is perfectly feasible to run the engine with a standalone ecu, and another control box for a DCT transmission.
Automatics are a different story though
e21jason said:
Syvecs do an ecu that will run the engine and dcd box but it the cheapest
It is only the earlier DCT box it can run, and not 100% sure if it is doing that with or without additional control boxes.The later box will require an external controller.
But yes it is expensive....but it is one of the best ecu's available
RicoOS said:
Hi all, I'm mulling over a potential restomod project, I'd love to do and trying to get a better understanding of how to decide whether to keep the original power unit and gearbox or go to something significantly more modern to gain both greater performance, more easily and also things such as better mpg.
I can see that clearly the likes of Rocketeer do a kit to fit a Jag V6 into an MX5, are there other options out there such as aftermarket engine management systems that allow more modern engines to be fitted into an older car?
Has anyone seen, or done a retrofit of the BMW straight 6 turbo (and potentially it's ZF autobox) into an older car, and if so, how did they do it?
whats the current powerplant?I can see that clearly the likes of Rocketeer do a kit to fit a Jag V6 into an MX5, are there other options out there such as aftermarket engine management systems that allow more modern engines to be fitted into an older car?
Has anyone seen, or done a retrofit of the BMW straight 6 turbo (and potentially it's ZF autobox) into an older car, and if so, how did they do it?
The car I'm thinking of is the E24 6 series, so the M30 in it's various guises, I'm well aware you can extract more juice from the M30 with a low pressure turbo set up and that may be the option I end up going down, but fundamentally I want to keep the character style and all around loveliness of the shark, whilst making some high quality updates, but unlike many, what I want to do is keep it as pure GT character.
It's very much of a project to see if I can map out a way to create something special, a re-imagining of the E24 for the 21st century, that's completely recognisable, but subtle, not too bling, not so fast it needs massive wheels and tyres that will ruin the style or ride handling balance, but has a style I love oozing from every surface.
I know it's not going to be a cheap job and I sure as hell don't want to create something like all the "restomods" of E24's i've seen that lose the soul of what the E24 is. The only thing I know for sure is that it has to remain a straight 6, so either what I've asked about here, possibly a low pressure turbo on the old M30, or maybe (if i could find one at a reasonable price) a switch to the S38, I did consider the 3.2 from an E46 but I feel it's too revvy to suit the character of the big 6 and doesn't have the torque to suit the car, so I'm trying to work out whats reasonably possible and what's not.
Also ideally I want the lovely creamy 6 pot howl that comes with the older BMW inline 6's, but the only way I know for sure to keep that, would be to stick with the M30 and spend a lot on a rebuild with all the N/A tuning bells and whistles and I guess that is another potential option and again maybe that's an option. All I know is I want to build the best E24 restomod anyone has ever seen and if adding another year and another £10,000 or more to the budget is what's required to achieve that, then it would be money well spent, it's not a car once done I would ever look to sell.
Although if it attracted enough interest and the cost was reasonable I might consider starting a business creating them.
It's very much of a project to see if I can map out a way to create something special, a re-imagining of the E24 for the 21st century, that's completely recognisable, but subtle, not too bling, not so fast it needs massive wheels and tyres that will ruin the style or ride handling balance, but has a style I love oozing from every surface.
I know it's not going to be a cheap job and I sure as hell don't want to create something like all the "restomods" of E24's i've seen that lose the soul of what the E24 is. The only thing I know for sure is that it has to remain a straight 6, so either what I've asked about here, possibly a low pressure turbo on the old M30, or maybe (if i could find one at a reasonable price) a switch to the S38, I did consider the 3.2 from an E46 but I feel it's too revvy to suit the character of the big 6 and doesn't have the torque to suit the car, so I'm trying to work out whats reasonably possible and what's not.
Also ideally I want the lovely creamy 6 pot howl that comes with the older BMW inline 6's, but the only way I know for sure to keep that, would be to stick with the M30 and spend a lot on a rebuild with all the N/A tuning bells and whistles and I guess that is another potential option and again maybe that's an option. All I know is I want to build the best E24 restomod anyone has ever seen and if adding another year and another £10,000 or more to the budget is what's required to achieve that, then it would be money well spent, it's not a car once done I would ever look to sell.
Although if it attracted enough interest and the cost was reasonable I might consider starting a business creating them.
RicoOS said:
Has anyone seen, or done a retrofit of the BMW straight 6 turbo (and potentially it's ZF autobox) into an older car, and if so, how did they do it?
Syvecs or MoTeC for the engine (because of the DI) and a TurboLamik TCU controller for the ZF 8HP. I would use the 8HP70 as it's plentiful from VAGs, BMWs, Jags etc and has enough torque capacity.You really don't want to mess with integrating stock ECUs into older cars unless you really want/need that ecosystem. It gets real messy, real fast, and bricking stock ECUs is incredibly easy if using cheap programmers. You really need someone who knows them inside and out to stop it looking for and fault coding missing modules.
The Aussie youtuber 'Zero to 60' has loads of videos about retrofitting 8HPs to all sorts of cars and a ton of N55 info.
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