205 GTi Starting Problems .....please help!!!
Discussion
I am in desperate need of help!!!
I have a 1990 H-reg 205 GTi 1.9 (is the slightly later style of engine with the ignition coil bolted to the inlet manifold.) I bought the car with the intention of using it as a daily hack and some track day / autotest type events. The was fine when I bought it in Jan of this year, the only fault being it would occasionally not start when the ignition key was turned (i.e. a total not start wouldn't turn over you could just hear the fuel pump pumping and a relay clicking on the fuse panel). I thought initially that this would be something like a sticking starter motor solenoid as the car had only done 200 miles in the last year. When it would do this you would just have to try again and then the starter motor would pick up and go and start the car.
I used the car daily until Feb then was away with work for about 4 weeks therefore car sat unused. When i needed the on the first morning back to work the car would not start. It would turn over the engine (unlike the normal failure mode listed above) but would just not fire. I then managed to flatten the battery by various attempts to get it going. I checked I had fuel in the tank, checked fuel was getting to the fuel rail, checked the spark from the plugs, seemed a little weak so i installed new leads and dizzy cap, but still she would fire but not start!!!
Left her for another week, until I had time to have another fiddle, now when I tried starting her she would still turn over but not fire, but now when I released the ignition switch from the start position the car would continue turning over!! and wouldn't stop until I turn back to accessory position. As I had the problems previously with what I thought was a sticking solenoid thought this was a good time to change the starter motor. I had a spare starter motor from a previous GTi a few years back fitted it and low and behold the same problem was there, this when the starter motor was trying to mesh with the ring gear there was a terrible 'crunching / clattering' type noise as if the start was not quiet engaging with the gear properly when rotating. Checked the condition of the teeth on the ring gear and you could see the some 'damage' to the teeth caused by the incorrect engagement.
When I was trying to start the car you could see a small amount of smoke coming from under the bonnet, I presume this was because the starter motor was being continuously supplied with 12V?
At this point I thought I had best call an auto electrician.
He looked at the car whilst I was at work,his report to me on the phone was that he thought the ignition switch was faulty, and to change this and the starter motor. So I bought a new ignition switch, fitted it, and bought a new starter motor and fitted it.
Guess what.....??? The problem is STILL there.........but now the car nearly starts, i.e. the engine fires but I have to turn it off as the starter motor is still going.
Found another relay that was not located by the other bank of relays. It is under / near the steering column on the same bolt that secures the ECU. This is what I have found when I disconnect it. The engine turns over BUT when you release the ignition switch from start position the starter motor actually stops spinning!!! (unlike when the relay is plugged in) When it is plugged in the starter motor is continuing to be energised when the ignition switch is released from start position. Logically thought this was the cure to all my answers, apparently it is called a tachymetric relay that is involved in the fuel pump, starter motor solenoid feed, injectors, coil the whole nine yards. Replaced it, (peugeot tried to charge £69+VAT) eventually found one for £29+VAT, talking to the supplier i said that this would be the cause of all my problems - great!
Now the unit has arrived....plugged it in and it is doing the same flipping thing!!!....so what the hell is wrong!!! My electrical expertise is not too good, I have however located on a wiring diagram a relay on the fuse board that is also involved in switching to control the starter solenoid. Is there any way I can run a feed directly to the starter solenoid??? Help!
God damn this french f'kin car!!!! I feel like chucking it in the skip......
Any help would seriously be appreciated....sorry its chapter and verse.....
I have a 1990 H-reg 205 GTi 1.9 (is the slightly later style of engine with the ignition coil bolted to the inlet manifold.) I bought the car with the intention of using it as a daily hack and some track day / autotest type events. The was fine when I bought it in Jan of this year, the only fault being it would occasionally not start when the ignition key was turned (i.e. a total not start wouldn't turn over you could just hear the fuel pump pumping and a relay clicking on the fuse panel). I thought initially that this would be something like a sticking starter motor solenoid as the car had only done 200 miles in the last year. When it would do this you would just have to try again and then the starter motor would pick up and go and start the car.
I used the car daily until Feb then was away with work for about 4 weeks therefore car sat unused. When i needed the on the first morning back to work the car would not start. It would turn over the engine (unlike the normal failure mode listed above) but would just not fire. I then managed to flatten the battery by various attempts to get it going. I checked I had fuel in the tank, checked fuel was getting to the fuel rail, checked the spark from the plugs, seemed a little weak so i installed new leads and dizzy cap, but still she would fire but not start!!!
Left her for another week, until I had time to have another fiddle, now when I tried starting her she would still turn over but not fire, but now when I released the ignition switch from the start position the car would continue turning over!! and wouldn't stop until I turn back to accessory position. As I had the problems previously with what I thought was a sticking solenoid thought this was a good time to change the starter motor. I had a spare starter motor from a previous GTi a few years back fitted it and low and behold the same problem was there, this when the starter motor was trying to mesh with the ring gear there was a terrible 'crunching / clattering' type noise as if the start was not quiet engaging with the gear properly when rotating. Checked the condition of the teeth on the ring gear and you could see the some 'damage' to the teeth caused by the incorrect engagement.
When I was trying to start the car you could see a small amount of smoke coming from under the bonnet, I presume this was because the starter motor was being continuously supplied with 12V?
At this point I thought I had best call an auto electrician.
He looked at the car whilst I was at work,his report to me on the phone was that he thought the ignition switch was faulty, and to change this and the starter motor. So I bought a new ignition switch, fitted it, and bought a new starter motor and fitted it.
Guess what.....??? The problem is STILL there.........but now the car nearly starts, i.e. the engine fires but I have to turn it off as the starter motor is still going.
Found another relay that was not located by the other bank of relays. It is under / near the steering column on the same bolt that secures the ECU. This is what I have found when I disconnect it. The engine turns over BUT when you release the ignition switch from start position the starter motor actually stops spinning!!! (unlike when the relay is plugged in) When it is plugged in the starter motor is continuing to be energised when the ignition switch is released from start position. Logically thought this was the cure to all my answers, apparently it is called a tachymetric relay that is involved in the fuel pump, starter motor solenoid feed, injectors, coil the whole nine yards. Replaced it, (peugeot tried to charge £69+VAT) eventually found one for £29+VAT, talking to the supplier i said that this would be the cause of all my problems - great!
Now the unit has arrived....plugged it in and it is doing the same flipping thing!!!....so what the hell is wrong!!! My electrical expertise is not too good, I have however located on a wiring diagram a relay on the fuse board that is also involved in switching to control the starter solenoid. Is there any way I can run a feed directly to the starter solenoid??? Help!
God damn this french f'kin car!!!! I feel like chucking it in the skip......
Any help would seriously be appreciated....sorry its chapter and verse.....
Perhaps during the unending tiraid of trying to start the thing you have burnt out some wiring which has then fused together?
I wouldnt be able to tell unless i was looking at the car sorry, sounds like you have covered all avenues that i would have sugested.
I'm not aware of any relay on the fuse box that controls the starter solenoid either only the Tachymetric you mention which is by the ECU.
Hope you sort it.
Mike
I wouldnt be able to tell unless i was looking at the car sorry, sounds like you have covered all avenues that i would have sugested.
I'm not aware of any relay on the fuse box that controls the starter solenoid either only the Tachymetric you mention which is by the ECU.
Hope you sort it.
Mike
Can't offer much advice here unfortunately, apart from the fact that from experience once the wiring looms on these Pugs start to go then it's nothing but trouble ahead.
Mine (similar age) had teribble starting problems, sometimes you'd turn the key and the starter motor did nothing, other times it started fine.
Eventually I ripped out the immobiliser and that seemed to cure it for a while, but true to form the fault returned a few months later.
Eventually I managed to pursaude someone to give me £50 for the privilege of taking it away on the back of a lorry. I was glad to see the back of it by then.
best
Ex
Mine (similar age) had teribble starting problems, sometimes you'd turn the key and the starter motor did nothing, other times it started fine.
Eventually I ripped out the immobiliser and that seemed to cure it for a while, but true to form the fault returned a few months later.
Eventually I managed to pursaude someone to give me £50 for the privilege of taking it away on the back of a lorry. I was glad to see the back of it by then.
best
Ex
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