Is clutch judder just a general problem nowadays?

[Bennet]

It seems every modern-ish manual car I drive nowadays exhibits some degree of clutch judder when moving off in 1st gear.

Whether it's appallingly intrusive and frustrating, like on my wife's Z4, sometimes noticeable but not a massive problem, like on my MG ZT-T, or occasional and mild like on my psycho mother in law's Auris.

Have I coincidentally been driving 3 totally different cars, all with knackered DMFs? Or is clutch judder just a normal part of owning a manual car nowadays?

Older stuff never, ever did this in my experience, even at higher mileages (talking 70/80,000 miles in each of the cases of the above.)

[gregpot2000]

The past 3 Audi A4s I have had have all done it after around 1 hour of driving, Even my latest that was on 16k when I got it.

My last car I managed to get them to change the clutch within warranty due to it, but it came back about 20k later. I am very sympathetic to the clutch before anyone says! Always handbrake and neutral at every stop.

I do wonder if there's any link to the electronic handbrake auto release, all cars have had this, I wonder if it's not 100% spot on when releasing and causes the car to fight against the clutch for a split, unnoticeable second. that happening thousands of times may lead to premature wear?

[CrutyRammers]

I wonder the same OP. I've noticed it in the last few years in a number of cars. Not all of them, but some do seem virtually impossible to pull away smoothly, particularly when cold. I can switch from an MGB with an old, long spongey clutch, to my Dax with a very short, firm sports clutch and have zero issues, so I'm convinced it's certain clutches rather than me. I too wondered if it's a delay valve or similar in them.

[geeks]

My B7 A4 used to do it as well, there was nothing wrong with the clutch or the flywheel that we could find when we took the box off, much head scratching later we put it back together and decided "They all do that sir!"

[Rawhide]

My E320 CDI Mercedes is in today having a new torque converter fitted. The car is known to have glycol contamination due to a bad batch of radiators where the coolant is cooled in the same radiator as the transmission fluid.

The indy tells me this is really quite a common issue and not unique to Mercedes. It's just poor design of the radiator.

I'm guessing this issue will only start to happen as the car radiators reach a point where they start to leak inside.

[996TT02]

Rawhide said:

My E320 CDI Mercedes is in today having a new torque converter fitted. The car is known to have glycol contamination due to a bad batch of radiators where the coolant is cooled in the same radiator as the transmission fluid.

The indy tells me this is really quite a common issue and not unique to Mercedes. It's just poor design of the radiator.

I'm guessing this issue will only start to happen as the car radiators reach a point where they start to leak inside.

So, where's the clutch on those, then?

[speedking31]

Hillholder might have an effect as well.

[Olivergt]

Is the Z4 a straight 6? It could be related to poor idling.

When stationary, can you squeeze the accelerator and hold the revs at around 800-900 RPM or do the revs bounce up and down?

If they bounce up and down, then it could be the Idle Control Valve needs cleaning/replacing. There is plenty of information on the web about this.

P.S. I recently drove a 2016 Auris and the clutch on that was atrocious, juddering and quite easy to stall the car.

[JakeT]

BMWs have a habit of it. I've driven both new and old that do it, sometimes dreadfully. It will do it if I seem to catch the clutch wrong, with a few too few revs in both of mine. It's rare though, maybe happens once a month, and when the clutch is hot.

[aquarianone]

On a side note, you can get the CDV removed on the Zed, make's it much much smoother

[Sheepshanks]

I know it's an issue on Honda Jazz. They blame condensation on the flywheel but that seems pretty unlikley to me. You read of cars where they accept it's not right, change everything and the car still does it.

[Bennet]

Sheepshanks said:

I know it's an issue on Honda Jazz. They blame condensation on the flywheel but that seems pretty unlikley to me. You read of cars where they accept it's not right, change everything and the car still does it.

Maybe there are a variety of causes, but the above would explain my experience since it mostly seems to happen when the car is cold (1st 2/3 minutes of driving).

[ChasW]

gregpot2000 said:

The past 3 Audi A4s I have had have all done it after around 1 hour of driving, Even my latest that was on 16k when I got it.

My last car I managed to get them to change the clutch within warranty due to it, but it came back about 20k later. I am very sympathetic to the clutch before anyone says! Always handbrake and neutral at every stop.

I do wonder if there's any link to the electronic handbrake auto release, all cars have had this, I wonder if it's not 100% spot on when releasing and causes the car to fight against the clutch for a split, unnoticeable second. that happening thousands of times may lead to premature wear?

Ditto but only two in succession. Only ever occurred when the engine was really warm, particularly after a long run. On the first car (manual handbrake) I had the clutch replaced under warranty. On the second A4 it only started after the warranty expired.

[Bennet]

Olivergt said:

Is the Z4 a straight 6? It could be related to poor idling.

Nope, it's the 2.0 4 cyllnder.

I could try having the clutch delay valve removed, as suggested. Maybe it will help.

It will be one of those conversations where the bloke from the garage is looking at me like I'm a moron whilst I try to explain what I'm on about and why I want it done.

[ExPat2B]

This is weird.

I drive a lot of hire cars and it is almost never an issue unless it is clearly a very, very abused car, usually with other issues as well like vibration at speed.

Not driven anything recent that has it as standard.

[milu]

I think it’s quite common. My Renault trafic does it a fair bit. It’s on 40k miles now but has done it for ages
Very annoying

[Olivergt]

Bennet said:

Olivergt said:

Is the Z4 a straight 6? It could be related to poor idling.

Nope, it's the 2.0 4 cyllnder.

I could try having the clutch delay valve removed, as suggested. Maybe it will help.

It will be one of those conversation where the bloke from the garage is looking at me like I'm a moron whilst I try to explain what I'm on about and why I want it done.

The Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) removal is supposed to be quite easy, but not sure it would cure the juddering.

I have a 3 series (6 cylinder) and the clutch judders on occasions, but I do have a dodgy idle which needs to be fixed! I find the smoothest take off without judder can be done with about 1500 RPM.

[Limpet]

We had loads of issues with clutches on our fleet of 320ds at a previous company. My early F30 320d company car had a slight clutch judder from new, but only from stone cold, and for the first couple of clutch engagements. It used to judder pulling off the drive, and again at the T-junction at the end of the road (about 100yds), but was absolutely fine after that. Dealer could never find anything wrong with it when they looked at it, so I gave up trying, although I'd probably have been more persistent if it were my own car.

My brother-in-law had a nightmare with clutch judder on an Approved Used, 4,000 mile E90 320d that he bought in 2011, which suffered from a faint, but definitely noticeable clutch judder from the day he picked it up. The dealer fitted a new clutch and DMF (reluctantly) under warranty, which made no difference at all. They replaced propshaft couplings, engine and transmission mounts and various other parts which made no difference at all. The last resort was even to put a new gearbox in it, but that didn't sort it either. After 2 months of going back and forth, with most of the driveline being replaced, or inspected and passed as fit by that point, he managed to successfully reject the car and get his money back.

[DailyHack]

Ride the clutch a little, moisture builds up on the plates, all is good for a while - particularly a issue on 4 Cylinder diesel BMW's...or increase revs before you move off. DMF's do not like low revs.

[Rich Boy Spanner]

CrutyRammers said:

I wonder the same OP. I've noticed it in the last few years in a number of cars. Not all of them, but some do seem virtually impossible to pull away smoothly, particularly when cold. I can switch from an MGB with an old, long spongey clutch, to my Dax with a very short, firm sports clutch and have zero issues, so I'm convinced it's certain clutches rather than me. I too wondered if it's a delay valve or similar in them.

Have noticed this too, especially in modern small capacity petrol turbo engines. Let the clutch out, all fine and smooth, and then it bogs down and jerks. Can get around it pulling away cleanly with a bit of throttle, but when in a car park or other slow environment it's kangaroo or slip/dump clutch and coast. Never got it with a diesel.