Re-metalling bearing shells?

[tapkaJohnD]

A friend (really!) has a Mk2 Land Rover which he is restoring
He tell me that big end bearings are unobtainable, and intends to rebuild using the original bearings.
"Sub-optimal" as they say in Parliament.
Is it possible to re-metal bearing shells? Use the old ones and put new bearing metal onto them?

JOhn

[Mignon]

Sure.

https://www.chaseengines.co.uk/services/white-meta...

[TooMany2cvs]

tapkaJohnD said:

A friend (really!) has a Mk2 Land Rover which he is restoring
He tell me that big end bearings are unobtainable

They're easily available...
https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/rtc-1729-beari...
https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/rtc-1730-beari...

I'm assuming "Mk2" means a s2 or 2a, and I'm guessing it's the original 2.25 3-bearing petrol - Turner do diesel and other engines, too.

takpaJohnD said:

Is it possible to re-metal bearing shells? Use the old ones and put new bearing metal onto them?

They aren't pre-war-style white metal - they're normal "modern-style" shell bearings.

[foxy99]

Was this ever resolved?

I have same issue with camshaft bearings for my Imp.

I've used the 'contact us' thing for Chase Engines Ltd and will post if they reply but there doesn't seem to be any clear route to having this done. Does it cost £80 or £800?



https://i.imgur.com/ZOUhCyJ.mp4

[stevieturbo]

So is your problem the bearings are the wrong size ? something is worn ? other ?

That's a pretty horrendous amount of movement.

Bound to be some new bearings that can fit ?

[foxy99]

Hi stevieturbo

They shells are just worn.

I have a few of these Imp camshaft/carrier assemblies and checked the others today posting.

None of them have any play in them. Well one (Sport version) has a tiny amount. barely perceptible.

I got a reply from Chase Engineering and he asked me to send him pics etc. I've done that and hope to get a reply soon.

Might be worth adding that all this came about as I found one of the shells on my original assy was 'melted' and I couldn't find new ones. Then I turned to the first of the spare assy's and found the wear shown above.

To be double sure about the wear in the one above I guess I could stick that cam in one of the other carriers and see if there is play but I very much doubt the cam is worn. You can see the shells are worn in the pics and the good ones I found today look different


melted camshaft bearing shell



another assy dug-out to be cleaned/examined



shells are not perfect in latest assy but can't feel any play in them

[bucksmanuk]

Can it be done? Yes

A decent engineering shop should be capable of creating a jig, white metalling them and then boring them out. A Land Rover engine isn’t the latest tech. I think for one engine set, it could prove rather expensive. Maybe have some made for others?

Or

Buy some bearings very close to what’s required and then machine down to size. Although it does require access to the full-on trade catalogue as to what all the various sizes are, and which would be the closest. I’ve had some Golf bearings modified this way.

I would want to know what white metal they were going to use - as they are most definitely not all the same. But I’ve designed rotating plant bearings for 20 years, and maybe that’s just sad case me…

Contact these guys.
https://vandervell.co.uk/
They used to sit upstairs where I used to work, but I suspect all the names I knew have left/retired.

It’s amazing what bearing will fit in another engine with only the slightest of tweaks, like grinding the crank down to a metric size instead of an imperial one, or vice versa.
A famous racing engine company had their Formula 1 engines running on Mondeo shells. They didn’t know it as they were supplied shells without the Ford part number on….!

[stevieturbo]

surely can't be that hard to find bearings the same size ?

What diameter is the shaft ?

And what OD for the housing ?

Bearing manufacturers usually let you search by size, eg.

http://www.king-catalog.com/

[foxy99]

stevieturbo said:

surely can't be that hard to find bearings the same size ?

What diameter is the shaft ?

And what OD for the housing ?

Bearing manufacturers usually let you search by size, eg.

http://www.king-catalog.com/

I've not looked for bearing the same size. I've looked for Hillman Imp bearings. If it was that easy am sure the Imp specialists would find them the way you have suggested.

I know you can find ball bearings easily using numbers stamped on them but I didn't realise you could do that with bearing shells

[stevieturbo]

If you can find a bearing to suit your shaft, and either close or over on the OD, it shouldn't be hard to have the head line bored to suit the new bearing.

As long as clearances etc are correct, it certainly wouldn't need to be the full width as the original.

Or I guess you could go all nuts and have some sort of brass bush made up ?

Is this something Imp specialists cannot resolve ? They have no solutions ?

Any reason these don't work ?

https://www.classicengineparts.co.uk/products/cep-...

bound to be others ?

Edited by stevieturbo on Wednesday 19th July 22:10

[foxy99]

bucksmanuk said:

Can it be done? Yes

A decent engineering shop should be capable of creating a jig, white metalling them and then boring them out. A Land Rover engine isn’t the latest tech. I think for one engine set, it could prove rather expensive. Maybe have some made for others?

Or

Buy some bearings very close to what’s required and then machine down to size. Although it does require access to the full-on trade catalogue as to what all the various sizes are, and which would be the closest. I’ve had some Golf bearings modified this way.

I would want to know what white metal they were going to use - as they are most definitely not all the same. But I’ve designed rotating plant bearings for 20 years, and maybe that’s just sad case me…

Contact these guys.
https://vandervell.co.uk/
They used to sit upstairs where I used to work, but I suspect all the names I knew have left/retired.

It’s amazing what bearing will fit in another engine with only the slightest of tweaks, like grinding the crank down to a metric size instead of an imperial one, or vice versa.
A famous racing engine company had their Formula 1 engines running on Mondeo shells. They didn’t know it as they were supplied shells without the Ford part number on….!

Thanks for the reply bucksmanuk

It's interesting you should mention Vandervell as the shells I have in another cam-carrier are marked VP which I believe is Vandervell.

They have what is probably a part number on them but I can't find any by Googling. The shells also have a Rootes engineering/drawing number on them.


Imp cam bearing shell with VP part number on one side


and Rootes number on the other side

Anyway I got a reply from the engineering company. He just said "I’ve been thinking about your job and unfortunately I didn’t think we can help you with this one"

From what you've explained above it's probably not worth the hassle for them which is at odds with the blurb on their site which suggests it's a service they can offer for any vehicle

[i]'White metalling service for customers with older vehicles. We offer a complete white metalling service for all types and size of bearing. We are able to both cast and line bore big end, mains , shells, bushes and housings including “backing-in” and “setting the nip”.
As part of our white metal service, we pay particular attention to the final finishing of the bearings, including the radii, oil galleries and scrolls.'[/i]

[hidetheelephants]

Hillman imp cam bearings

[stevieturbo]

I still don't get what the problem is with just buying new bearings ?

[foxy99]

stevieturbo said:

I still don't get what the problem is with just buying new bearings ?

There isn't one. I've been trying to buy them for months. The problem is no-one has them. It's not complicated

[foxy99]

hidetheelephants said:

Hillman imp cam bearings

Thanks for that hidetheelephants

I actually found that link recently and the cam-bearings were greyed-out.

Seems to be live now so will give it a try.

[stevieturbo]

foxy99 said:

Thanks for that hidetheelephants

I actually found that link recently and the cam-bearings were greyed-out.

Seems to be live now so will give it a try.

Have you actually called any suppliers and spoke to them ?

Have you measured and searched by the diameters needed ?

[99hjhm]

Whats the IMP journal size? They look like Lotus TC or Jaguar XK.

Even if white metal is possible on those cam bearings (I don't believe it would be) it would be very expensive. Cheaper to find another engine to rob.

Edited by 99hjhm on Sunday 23 July 20:44

[Lotobear]

99hjhm said:

Whats the IMP journal size? They look like Lotus TC or Jaguar XK.

Even if white metal is possible on those cam bearings (I don't believe it would be) it would be very expensive. Cheaper to find another engine to rob.

Edited by 99hjhm on Sunday 23 July 20:44

Was just about to say the same WRT Lotus TC cam bearings

[foxy99]

stevieturbo said:

Have you actually called any suppliers and spoke to them ?

Have you measured and searched by the diameters needed ?

I just emailed the suppliers and they said they had none.

No, I didn't take any measurements as even if you did manage to measure the ID of the journal accurately there's still the size and position of the notch to consider. I prefer to go on part-numbers, trusting that the engineers before me have checked out compatibility.

Anyway, thanks to the link you gave me, I ordered a set and they arrived today and aren't even the aftermarket ones listed. I got a set of NOS Vanderville ones. Exact same as the one in pics above


NOS box


aftermarket number on top of VP data


same as ones I have

Also got a more detailed response from the company who offer a re-metalling service.

He said

[i]"Hi graham
Firstly it is the size of the bearing, our metalling formers won’t go that small and the only possibility would be to make new formers.
Secondly our line boring machine doesn’t machine that small, would have to make a jig and machine a pair at a time, it would all be experimental and would be charged by the hour and I couldn’t even guess how many hours it would take.
Thirdly we are very busy and wouldn’t be able to look at it until October.
If you are help with this I’m willing to book it in for October "[/i]

So the theme of this thread is still unanswered. Is there anyone who can rejuvenate your old hard-to-find bearing-shells? or is the only option to find ones from other vehicles which may fit

[Krikkit]

Based on that response I assume they do crank bearings as their most common work, hence not going small enough