Discussion
does anyone have experience of solid lifters?
my griff 500 is tapping AGAIN after the following.
new...
lifters (x2 sets)
rods
rocker assemblies (x2)
oil pump pressure check & strip
oil pressure valve
oil change (several) now 15/50 from 0/40.
oil pressure test - ok.
blown out oilways and clean sump pick up.
about to take it to bits again and am considering solid lifters with adjustable rods.
will check for cam end float, but the sound is definately lifter. tapping from centre/front of block.
ps its definately NOT exhaust gasket
steve heath are you there?... anyone!
my griff 500 is tapping AGAIN after the following.
new...
lifters (x2 sets)
rods
rocker assemblies (x2)
oil pump pressure check & strip
oil pressure valve
oil change (several) now 15/50 from 0/40.
oil pressure test - ok.
blown out oilways and clean sump pick up.
about to take it to bits again and am considering solid lifters with adjustable rods.
will check for cam end float, but the sound is definately lifter. tapping from centre/front of block.
ps its definately NOT exhaust gasket
steve heath are you there?... anyone!
You sure you haven't lost a cam lobe? The lifters can only compensate for so much...
Also, was the preload properly set up after each new set of lifters? Otherwise you'd have a problem from the word go.
Despite rebuilding my V8 earlier this year with its original cam, lifters and rocker gear, I still had to fit different preload shims to get the clearances correct.
Ian
Also, was the preload properly set up after each new set of lifters? Otherwise you'd have a problem from the word go.
Despite rebuilding my V8 earlier this year with its original cam, lifters and rocker gear, I still had to fit different preload shims to get the clearances correct.
Ian
yes, pre loads were set each time
yes, cam was checked.
may take the cam out totally this time to ENSURE its ok but was checked insitu and no real wear was seen.
wierd (and expensive) huh!
i should say that all work has been carried out at penninsula and they've gone out of their way to be friendly/helpfull.
just looking for fresh ideas
is it worth fitting solid lifters?
yes, cam was checked.
may take the cam out totally this time to ENSURE its ok but was checked insitu and no real wear was seen.
wierd (and expensive) huh!
i should say that all work has been carried out at penninsula and they've gone out of their way to be friendly/helpfull.
just looking for fresh ideas
is it worth fitting solid lifters?
Noise could be timing gear/ chain ? as you seem to have eliminated all the obvious things.
On solid lifters there is a very good cam available that runs with solid lifters Kent M404 i fitted one in my 5.0L tuscan 2 yrs ago, fantastic cam, stacks better than the regular 218 etc. I was talking to Richard @ Peninsula yesterday about them, i know he is more than impressed. need adjustment every 8-12,000 with road use.
Good luck, Tim
On solid lifters there is a very good cam available that runs with solid lifters Kent M404 i fitted one in my 5.0L tuscan 2 yrs ago, fantastic cam, stacks better than the regular 218 etc. I was talking to Richard @ Peninsula yesterday about them, i know he is more than impressed. need adjustment every 8-12,000 with road use.
Good luck, Tim
2sheds
was it used in a race or road car?
where were improvements?
idle?
mid range?
acceleration?
overall?
richard and i will be doing the work next week and i like the sound of this (he did mention it)so if its not too expensive...
adjustment every 6-10k is ok as it would fit in with normal servicing/use
firstly i just want it quiet, as its fine otherwise.
cheers
andy
>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 25th August 22:19
was it used in a race or road car?
where were improvements?
idle?
mid range?
acceleration?
overall?
richard and i will be doing the work next week and i like the sound of this (he did mention it)so if its not too expensive...
adjustment every 6-10k is ok as it would fit in with normal servicing/use
firstly i just want it quiet, as its fine otherwise.
cheers
andy
>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 25th August 22:19
Going back to the original problem, surely you should try and find the cause as something is obviously wrong. Just fitting solid lifters may help, but maybe you will go through all that hassle/expense and still be no further forward.
I am sure these have been already checked but are your oil ways clean (I would try running up the oil pump while it is bits and making sure you are getting plenty of oil in the required places), are you 100% sue there isn't a damage/roughness where the lifters fit?
Also one other point, you say you have changed the lifters twice - I thought you weren't supposed to change them without changing the camshaft?
Danny
I am sure these have been already checked but are your oil ways clean (I would try running up the oil pump while it is bits and making sure you are getting plenty of oil in the required places), are you 100% sue there isn't a damage/roughness where the lifters fit?
Also one other point, you say you have changed the lifters twice - I thought you weren't supposed to change them without changing the camshaft?
Danny
jmorgan.
yeah, solid lifters are just that. no hydraulic mechanism - back to the old system of adjusting the tappets manually (adjustment in new rods so rockers remain)
danny,
yeah, i'd agree with you. i'd rather sort the problem, but its getting expensive and not a little annoying!
i'd like to go in and be sure the problem will be sorted this time. hence the solids.
atleast if i go that route the problem will be sorted! and if i end up with a better cam/performance, then i'll get something back for the money as well!!
here's hoping! don't know how much the cam is yet!
andy
>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 25th August 16:16
yeah, solid lifters are just that. no hydraulic mechanism - back to the old system of adjusting the tappets manually (adjustment in new rods so rockers remain)
danny,
yeah, i'd agree with you. i'd rather sort the problem, but its getting expensive and not a little annoying!
i'd like to go in and be sure the problem will be sorted this time. hence the solids.
atleast if i go that route the problem will be sorted! and if i end up with a better cam/performance, then i'll get something back for the money as well!!
here's hoping! don't know how much the cam is yet!
andy
>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 25th August 16:16
Had the happen twice on my 500 Chim, fortunately covered by extended warranty. The tapping sounds pretty terminal. First set of lifters went, car went in, had another set fitted. It lasted a day and the new set went. The car went back to TVR Power in Coventry for diagnosis, and it turned out the oil pickup pipe in the sump was loose. Under acceleration it was sucking air and losing pressure, but at a steady speed it was fine. Like when you were checking the oil pressure guage for example! Obviously the fault didn't appear when the engine was run up in the workshop.
If you've had the pickup cleaned I'd be surprised if this was the problem - in my case the pipe had probably not been torqued up during original assembly. I had wondered if the cam should have been replaced, but was assured at the time that it was OK. Since it sounded like the lifters had about an inch of clearance from the racket it made (it was almost as rattly as the original Cerberas
) I was doubtful, but four years later it's still running.
If you've had the pickup cleaned I'd be surprised if this was the problem - in my case the pipe had probably not been torqued up during original assembly. I had wondered if the cam should have been replaced, but was assured at the time that it was OK. Since it sounded like the lifters had about an inch of clearance from the racket it made (it was almost as rattly as the original Cerberas
) I was doubtful, but four years later it's still running.phil,
oil pickup has been checked and no drop in pressure has been seen at any time
glad you got yours sorted!
other info in the saga.
the noise appears to have moved this time.
previously it was difficult to pinpoint just where the tapping was coming from ie top rattle or lower rattle.
hence the changing of upper assemblies (both sides)
this time,however, the noise seems quite clearly from the lifters and definately from the front.
so maybe a duff one went in this time.
on new lifters, rods, tappets the car sounded lovely.
drove to nurberg... 6 laps... back home and sounds like a diesel!!!!!
by the way, the cars is a 500hc pre serp '94 with 40k on it
cheers
oil pickup has been checked and no drop in pressure has been seen at any time
glad you got yours sorted!
other info in the saga.
the noise appears to have moved this time.
previously it was difficult to pinpoint just where the tapping was coming from ie top rattle or lower rattle.
hence the changing of upper assemblies (both sides)
this time,however, the noise seems quite clearly from the lifters and definately from the front.
so maybe a duff one went in this time.
on new lifters, rods, tappets the car sounded lovely.
drove to nurberg... 6 laps... back home and sounds like a diesel!!!!!
by the way, the cars is a 500hc pre serp '94 with 40k on it
cheers
quote:
Solid Lifters? I take it to mean non hydrolic? What are the benefits of this then? Not thinking of having it done though, just curious.
(just tall washers?
Basically you can rev the engine higher. Waste of time if the power and torque is low down so usually reserved for competition engines and others where thepower is high up the band.
Steve
Regarding the preload setting on std hydraulics, you need two different Ø's of wire which you bend into a probe / small 'L' so that when the rocker gear, pushrod, lifter assembly is all assembled and torqued down (with lifter empty of oil) you can fit the wire between the underside of the retaining circlip in the lifter and the top of the lifter piston. I forget the size of this gap (its in the haynes manual/ preload shim kit) but the cam must be fully closed / on the heel and the you have an upper and lower limit for this gap. So you get wire Ø of these two limits and as long as you can get the small one in and not the big one, the preload is set correctly.
I used a shim kit from 'Real Steel' about 5 quid and had to swap a few pushrods around to get mine right.
Matt
I used a shim kit from 'Real Steel' about 5 quid and had to swap a few pushrods around to get mine right.
Matt
quote:
2sheds
was it used in a race or road car?
where were improvements?
idle?
mid range?
acceleration?
overall?
richard and i will be doing the work next week and i like the sound of this (he did mention it)so if its not too expensive...
adjustment every 6-10k is ok as it would fit in with normal servicing/use
firstly i just want it quiet, as its fine otherwise.
cheers
andy
>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 25th August 22:19
Guillotine, I,ve been in Devon for the week so hence slow reply, The solid lifters were fitted to a road engine, The benefits with the 404 are everywhere from idle to top end, the lift is very high with an asymmetric profile, you cant use hydaulic with this cam , solid set ups offer more response and possibility for higher reving (if required)
You will be supprised !!!
Cheers Tim
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