De Tomaso - Ford Cleveland advice
Discussion
Over on the ‘yesterdays hero’s’ forum some of you may already have been bored to death with my current project of importing a De Tomaso from Australia.
The car is fitted with a Ford 351 Cleveland which has covered about 70,000 since new (1982) with the paperwork suggesting the car has been reasonably maintained, however….
There are a couple of marque specific options such as the former De Tomaso concessionaires and another specialist owned by the owners club chairman but bearing in mind the basic nature of the lump and making the assumption that the engine is now past its best a bit of help on the following points would be much appreciated ahead of the cars arrival from down under.
What could you expect to pay for a new Cleveland or Windsor?
What could you expect to pay for a full engine rebuild?
Is there any notable specialist I should be contacting?
Anybody have any similar experiences?
Many thanks.
The car is fitted with a Ford 351 Cleveland which has covered about 70,000 since new (1982) with the paperwork suggesting the car has been reasonably maintained, however….
There are a couple of marque specific options such as the former De Tomaso concessionaires and another specialist owned by the owners club chairman but bearing in mind the basic nature of the lump and making the assumption that the engine is now past its best a bit of help on the following points would be much appreciated ahead of the cars arrival from down under.
What could you expect to pay for a new Cleveland or Windsor?
What could you expect to pay for a full engine rebuild?
Is there any notable specialist I should be contacting?
Anybody have any similar experiences?
Many thanks.
Try Mike Johnson (boosted ls1 on PH) his homepage is:
www.chevroletls1.com/
As he is a Chevy specialist he may not be able to help personally, but may be able to recommend someone.
www.chevroletls1.com/
As he is a Chevy specialist he may not be able to help personally, but may be able to recommend someone.
Hi Rob!
I can't believe that I missed the question, as I am usually on the lookout for DeTomaso content since it is usually pretty rare.
Anyhow, now we've "met" each other on the PI board and here, feel free to e-mail me offline if you should need more advice.
When I bought my GT5-S, the 351C literally broke down on me while driving it home. It was only a broken valve spring, but it was enough to delay its arrival a couple of months while I sorted it out.
I drove it happily for exactly two months before I broke another valve spring. Detecting a trend, I decided to not only change all the valve springs, but to change all the valves, the heads, the intake, the carb, the camshaft, the distributor... well, what the heck, let's just to a complete rebuild.
I was living in Spain at the time but spoke little spanish since I had just arrived. I spoke (speak) French, since I had been living in France for a few years prior to coming here. So I began looking for US-friendly garages in France.
It is a VERY long story that I won't bore you with (unless you want all the gory details) but I had the car towed to a garage in Toulouse that specializes in US motors. They rebuilt it to my specifications. HP was boosted to an estimated 480. The car was now literally scary-fast, but my problems were not yet over. I bent pushrods and trashed roller rockers every 500-1000 kilometers. Very long story made short, the car had to be towed back to Toulouse.
Turns out that the heads that I purchased from an outfit in California, the famous Australian closed-chamber heads, had been very poorly prepared. All kinds of bad things there. So the shop in Toulouse had to disassemble and rebuild the heads, as well as replace many of my brand new parts which had sufferered during this adventure.
Since then I've probably put on 20.000 kilometers of trouble-free adventures.
In my particular case, I would have been WAY ahead financially to have bought a crate engine from a US supplier instead of rebuilding my engine. Each rebuild cost me roughly 8000 euros.
In the US, I had the engine in my former '72 Pantera rebuilt, and I think the total cost was closer to $4000. That is about what I would expect it to cost for a basic rebuild to stock configuration. The higher cost in france was partly due to 19.6% tax, partly due to an awful lot of upgrades and extras.
Anyway, feel free to ask questions about my rebuild or about Clevelands in general.
I'd also highly recommend that you check out
http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
It is the DeTomaso e-mail forum, and is much more active than the PI bulletin board. There are some highly knowlegeable people on that list, and you will be able to get many opinions.
Finally, if you need parts from the US, please let me know. Most of the UK DeTomaso club and the Swedish club has a "special friend" who gets them a huge discount on shipping...
I can't believe that I missed the question, as I am usually on the lookout for DeTomaso content since it is usually pretty rare.
Anyhow, now we've "met" each other on the PI board and here, feel free to e-mail me offline if you should need more advice.
When I bought my GT5-S, the 351C literally broke down on me while driving it home. It was only a broken valve spring, but it was enough to delay its arrival a couple of months while I sorted it out.
I drove it happily for exactly two months before I broke another valve spring. Detecting a trend, I decided to not only change all the valve springs, but to change all the valves, the heads, the intake, the carb, the camshaft, the distributor... well, what the heck, let's just to a complete rebuild.
I was living in Spain at the time but spoke little spanish since I had just arrived. I spoke (speak) French, since I had been living in France for a few years prior to coming here. So I began looking for US-friendly garages in France.
It is a VERY long story that I won't bore you with (unless you want all the gory details) but I had the car towed to a garage in Toulouse that specializes in US motors. They rebuilt it to my specifications. HP was boosted to an estimated 480. The car was now literally scary-fast, but my problems were not yet over. I bent pushrods and trashed roller rockers every 500-1000 kilometers. Very long story made short, the car had to be towed back to Toulouse.
Turns out that the heads that I purchased from an outfit in California, the famous Australian closed-chamber heads, had been very poorly prepared. All kinds of bad things there. So the shop in Toulouse had to disassemble and rebuild the heads, as well as replace many of my brand new parts which had sufferered during this adventure.
Since then I've probably put on 20.000 kilometers of trouble-free adventures.
In my particular case, I would have been WAY ahead financially to have bought a crate engine from a US supplier instead of rebuilding my engine. Each rebuild cost me roughly 8000 euros.
In the US, I had the engine in my former '72 Pantera rebuilt, and I think the total cost was closer to $4000. That is about what I would expect it to cost for a basic rebuild to stock configuration. The higher cost in france was partly due to 19.6% tax, partly due to an awful lot of upgrades and extras.
Anyway, feel free to ask questions about my rebuild or about Clevelands in general.
I'd also highly recommend that you check out
http://ftl.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
It is the DeTomaso e-mail forum, and is much more active than the PI bulletin board. There are some highly knowlegeable people on that list, and you will be able to get many opinions.
Finally, if you need parts from the US, please let me know. Most of the UK DeTomaso club and the Swedish club has a "special friend" who gets them a huge discount on shipping...
Many thanks Charlie,
I had a long and very helpful chat with Roger Brotton (DDC) today for the first time and am starting to feel a load happier with the imminent arrival.
For what its worth the new purchase is in fact the car which was featured in Auto-Italia in October of last year, I have a copy being sent so am looking forward to seeing her in print.
Over the last few days I’ve been having a good dig about for some information and seemingly you can indeed get yourself a basic specification Cleveland or Windsor for about £2500 out of crate. Mindful that the Deauville is never really going to be the car for mega power you would want in a Pant I would imagine the worse case scenario is to buy a crate engine and then upgrade the Carb. Etc to De T spec. Compared to some this really isn’t a mega expensive operation.
What Roger has pointed out to me is the number of Deauville specific parts such as disks which are really hard to find. With there now being a mighty 10 cars known of it is worth getting some new ones machined. Fortunately my fears that the car was not on Campagnolo’s is ill founded so at least that is one thing less to worry about.
Presently the car looks as though it is riding quite high so I discussed about putting coil overs on and lowering her a bit.
Clearly and contacts across the pond will be very useful and certainly one to call upon if possible. One thing I am trying to establish is how easy it might be to get things back from Canada. The wife to be is Canadian and with a visit in the near future the thought of bringing a Cleveland through customs with the luggage is playing on my mind.
“Anything to declare”
“No nothing at all”
I’ve joined the list you posted the link for, bleeding hell, the old in box is now awash with info……………..good stuff
I also spoke with Roger about Le Mans and I gather that most of the DDC stay in Neufchatel sp. North of Alencon which incidentally is where I will be staying. We’ve gone to the same place for many years and like so many of us over that weekend we are reluctant to change. I think you mentioned the idea of you staying the Bleu? You are clearly a much hardier sole than I!
As for meeting up at the race, definitely. I was discussing with Roger how the Pant was a bigger draw than the F40 parked up just along from you at Arnage on the Friday
Many thanks
RB
I had a long and very helpful chat with Roger Brotton (DDC) today for the first time and am starting to feel a load happier with the imminent arrival.
For what its worth the new purchase is in fact the car which was featured in Auto-Italia in October of last year, I have a copy being sent so am looking forward to seeing her in print.
Over the last few days I’ve been having a good dig about for some information and seemingly you can indeed get yourself a basic specification Cleveland or Windsor for about £2500 out of crate. Mindful that the Deauville is never really going to be the car for mega power you would want in a Pant I would imagine the worse case scenario is to buy a crate engine and then upgrade the Carb. Etc to De T spec. Compared to some this really isn’t a mega expensive operation.
What Roger has pointed out to me is the number of Deauville specific parts such as disks which are really hard to find. With there now being a mighty 10 cars known of it is worth getting some new ones machined. Fortunately my fears that the car was not on Campagnolo’s is ill founded so at least that is one thing less to worry about.
Presently the car looks as though it is riding quite high so I discussed about putting coil overs on and lowering her a bit.
Clearly and contacts across the pond will be very useful and certainly one to call upon if possible. One thing I am trying to establish is how easy it might be to get things back from Canada. The wife to be is Canadian and with a visit in the near future the thought of bringing a Cleveland through customs with the luggage is playing on my mind.
“Anything to declare”
“No nothing at all”
I’ve joined the list you posted the link for, bleeding hell, the old in box is now awash with info……………..good stuff
I also spoke with Roger about Le Mans and I gather that most of the DDC stay in Neufchatel sp. North of Alencon which incidentally is where I will be staying. We’ve gone to the same place for many years and like so many of us over that weekend we are reluctant to change. I think you mentioned the idea of you staying the Bleu? You are clearly a much hardier sole than I!
As for meeting up at the race, definitely. I was discussing with Roger how the Pant was a bigger draw than the F40 parked up just along from you at Arnage on the Friday
Many thanks
RB
Hi, Folks!
Don´t know if it still actual, but.:::
We have build some Clevlands and Windsors. Also some Clevors ( Windsor with Cleveland Heads)
What you get is what you looking for and pay for.
Wit a Set of nice KB-Pistins an great Cam and a nice Head Job you will have nearly 350 HP. Get a new Induction, Roller Cam and some specs and you hit the 420. Get some tricks and and a Stroker and you hit the 470 to 500 HP.....
And that with the Cleveland and the Windsor. The Cleveland is more for rpm´s and the Windsor is a torker. We have stroker Kits to make a 427 from a 351 W....
Just to give an Idea
Best Regards
The Cowboy
Engines, Parts, Tips and tricks an www.fastengineparts.de
>> Edited by Fastengineparts on Sunday 29th May 19:45
Don´t know if it still actual, but.:::
We have build some Clevlands and Windsors. Also some Clevors ( Windsor with Cleveland Heads)
What you get is what you looking for and pay for.
Wit a Set of nice KB-Pistins an great Cam and a nice Head Job you will have nearly 350 HP. Get a new Induction, Roller Cam and some specs and you hit the 420. Get some tricks and and a Stroker and you hit the 470 to 500 HP.....
And that with the Cleveland and the Windsor. The Cleveland is more for rpm´s and the Windsor is a torker. We have stroker Kits to make a 427 from a 351 W....
Just to give an Idea
Best Regards
The Cowboy
Engines, Parts, Tips and tricks an www.fastengineparts.de
>> Edited by Fastengineparts on Sunday 29th May 19:45
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