Was red diesel, now gas conversions
Discussion
Interesting discourse on red diesel! I was having a chat with someone doen the pub, as you do, and he runs his car on a gas tank in the boot. Now what would happen if he were to decant calor gas from a home central heating gas tank into his cars tank? Would it run OK, filling / pressure technicalities apart, and would there be a cost saving? IE, is heating gas taxed differently to rad fuel gas, are the products intechangeable, and are the differences detectable?
It can be pumped, and Im sure many do.
IF you pay the duty on it, it is also perfectly legal.
I did have links ages ago with a manual pump, and an electric pump.
A websearch should reveal the info.
If you dont use the LPG cylinder at teh house, then the big red Propane cylinders can be used. Bit more awkward though.
Any supplier of Automotive LPG equipment should also be able to supply you with the bits required.
IF you pay the duty on it, it is also perfectly legal.
I did have links ages ago with a manual pump, and an electric pump.
A websearch should reveal the info.
If you dont use the LPG cylinder at teh house, then the big red Propane cylinders can be used. Bit more awkward though.
Any supplier of Automotive LPG equipment should also be able to supply you with the bits required.
Right, the hillbillies where I used to work used an "orange cylinder" on one of their forklifts. It always struck me that gas conversions were over priced and that nice Mr Blairs gov't would see that they hooked enough people and then jack the duty up.
I like the idea of running orange cylinders. The problem is this. If you get caught running an orange cylinder, it is a parallel to running red diesel. I suppose you could pay the duty on a 47Kg cylinder and then just swapping a cylinder. You could have more than one on board, if it wasn't connected, they could not prove that you were going to use it as fuel.
If petrol gets totally silly in price, I will be looking at running industrial solvents. (Currently about 70p/L). LPG is muck as far as my performance car is concerned. My non-performance car will be mostly not running on diesel though!
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 11:50
I like the idea of running orange cylinders. The problem is this. If you get caught running an orange cylinder, it is a parallel to running red diesel. I suppose you could pay the duty on a 47Kg cylinder and then just swapping a cylinder. You could have more than one on board, if it wasn't connected, they could not prove that you were going to use it as fuel.
If petrol gets totally silly in price, I will be looking at running industrial solvents. (Currently about 70p/L). LPG is muck as far as my performance car is concerned. My non-performance car will be mostly not running on diesel though!
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 11:50
When I mentioned the red propane cylinders, I meant pump from them into the cars LPG tank.
I'd like to see them dipping a gas tank to see whats in it.
Doing a quick websearch...No idea on costs for these, but as you can see transfer pumps are available.
www.altenergy.com/accesori.htm#LPG%20Transfer%20Pumps
No doubt this place would know of pumps too, or indeed most gas conversion people.
www.wtv-uk.co.uk/index.htm
I'd like to see them dipping a gas tank to see whats in it.
Doing a quick websearch...No idea on costs for these, but as you can see transfer pumps are available.
www.altenergy.com/accesori.htm#LPG%20Transfer%20Pumps
No doubt this place would know of pumps too, or indeed most gas conversion people.
www.wtv-uk.co.uk/index.htm
No idea how difficult or otherwise this is to do, but isn't there a performance benefit from using a propane injection on turbocharged engines ( both petrol and derv) as the propane cools the air entering the engine and therefore generates a more dense inlet charge and thereby more power.
Perhaps a chat with Hank Hill is in order !!
Cheers,
Tony
Perhaps a chat with Hank Hill is in order !!
Cheers,
Tony
love machine said:
Right, the hillbillies where I used to work used an "orange cylinder" on one of their forklifts. It always struck me that gas conversions were over priced and that nice Mr Blairs gov't would see that they hooked enough people and then jack the duty up.
I like the idea of running orange cylinders. The problem is this. If you get caught running an orange cylinder, it is a parallel to running red diesel. I suppose you could pay the duty on a 47Kg cylinder and then just swapping a cylinder. You could have more than one on board, if it wasn't connected, they could not prove that you were going to use it as fuel.
If petrol gets totally silly in price, I will be looking at running industrial solvents. (Currently about 70p/L). LPG is muck as far as my performance car is concerned. My non-performance car will be mostly not running on diesel though!
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 11:50
You can actually run a higher CR on LPG, due to its higher octane rating
Generally, a turbo engine built with LPG in mind probably would perform better. The higher octane would probably outweight any downsides as to fuel engergy.
I think propane has a higher octane than LPG, which is a propane brew.
The added cooling effect would also be a bonus. But If I was doing it, I would want a modern style gas injection system, hopefully injecting gas at a high pressure, as that would help the cooling even more, esp if you could inject it as a liquid still.
I think propane has a higher octane than LPG, which is a propane brew.
The added cooling effect would also be a bonus. But If I was doing it, I would want a modern style gas injection system, hopefully injecting gas at a high pressure, as that would help the cooling even more, esp if you could inject it as a liquid still.
I believe some people test a fuel injection system (when locating a fueling problem) by just hooking the rail up to a domestic gas cylinder, and run the engine on that.
How do you convert a car with a carb to gas? Maybe you disconnect the fuel (petrol) and use the carb just to regulate the air flow, whilst having some kind of custom engine management to run "gas" injectors stuffed in the inlet manifold?
Also (off topic) can you run a car on the road on race spec (high octane) fuel? ... obviously you can, but I mean, legally? How is it taxed?
>> Edited by British_Mini on Tuesday 11th January 23:38
How do you convert a car with a carb to gas? Maybe you disconnect the fuel (petrol) and use the carb just to regulate the air flow, whilst having some kind of custom engine management to run "gas" injectors stuffed in the inlet manifold?
Also (off topic) can you run a car on the road on race spec (high octane) fuel? ... obviously you can, but I mean, legally? How is it taxed?
>> Edited by British_Mini on Tuesday 11th January 23:38
Carb gas setups basically use a carb for gas, and have a solenoid to shut off the fuel supply to the carb.
By carb for gas, I mean there is a venturi placed in the airstream that lets the gas in via a suitably sized orifice, which is fed from a suitably sized regulator.
It is very simple and basic stuff, similar in principal to a carb.
By carb for gas, I mean there is a venturi placed in the airstream that lets the gas in via a suitably sized orifice, which is fed from a suitably sized regulator.
It is very simple and basic stuff, similar in principal to a carb.
Domestic propane for central heating etc can be had for around 20p/litre if you buy 500 litres at a time.
If you trnsfer it to a car by hand pump and use it on the highway you would be liable for around 10p/litre duty.
Saab found that they could get around 10% more bhp from their standard turbo engine on LPG than Unleaded, because the APC system allows more boost due to the higher octane.
My LPG powered 2.3L VOLVO 740 estate does between 18.5 and 21 mpg on gas, A little more on petrol. My compression is about 20% higher than standard. It cruises happily at 100mph on the autobahn.
I'm going to attempt a turbo and lpg conversion on my TVR350i this spring...
If you trnsfer it to a car by hand pump and use it on the highway you would be liable for around 10p/litre duty.
Saab found that they could get around 10% more bhp from their standard turbo engine on LPG than Unleaded, because the APC system allows more boost due to the higher octane.
My LPG powered 2.3L VOLVO 740 estate does between 18.5 and 21 mpg on gas, A little more on petrol. My compression is about 20% higher than standard. It cruises happily at 100mph on the autobahn.
I'm going to attempt a turbo and lpg conversion on my TVR350i this spring...
The DJ 27 said:
Right, the hillbillies where I used to work used an "orange cylinder" on one of their forklifts. It always struck me that gas conversions were over priced and that nice Mr Blairs gov't would see that they hooked enough people and then jack the duty up.
I like the idea of running orange cylinders. The problem is this. If you get caught running an orange cylinder, it is a parallel to running red diesel. I suppose you could pay the duty on a 47Kg cylinder and then just swapping a cylinder. You could have more than one on board, if it wasn't connected, they could not prove that you were going to use it as fuel.
Got that the wrong way around. Calorific value/octane.
My mistake.
If petrol gets totally silly in price, I will be looking at running industrial solvents. (Currently about 70p/L). LPG is muck as far as my performance car is concerned. My non-performance car will be mostly not running on diesel though!
>> Edited by love machine on Monday 10th January 11:50
You can actually run a higher CR on LPG, due to its higher octane rating
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