why is my car so cold?
Discussion
surely this isnt right? when i drive it i get a whisper of tepid air into the cabin and the engine itself never actually gets anything even remotely close to warm. The needle sits right at the bottom of the scale and, well, its just cold!
I changed the stat for a new 88 deg one with all the gaskets etc and it seems ok, opens, shuts etc, but still the temp never gets above luke warm. maybe my engine has some sort of magic super cooling system? maybe i should sell it to TVR?
Anyway - anything i can try before i get hypothermia? oh yeah - its a 2.0 capri, modified and a little overchoked, surely that cant make THAT much difference, no?
I changed the stat for a new 88 deg one with all the gaskets etc and it seems ok, opens, shuts etc, but still the temp never gets above luke warm. maybe my engine has some sort of magic super cooling system? maybe i should sell it to TVR?
Anyway - anything i can try before i get hypothermia? oh yeah - its a 2.0 capri, modified and a little overchoked, surely that cant make THAT much difference, no?
Short of the oldtimer thing with a sheet of cardboard behind the radiator grille to stop too much cold air coming into the engine bay, the only answer has to be the 'stat. You're sure the new one is a)the right one for the engine, b) working OK? You can test it in a saucepan of water with a thermometer to monitor opening temperature.
Assuming the thermostat is in good order, and there is plenty of water in the system, you could try draining the system, by reverse flushing it with a hosepipe through the bottom radiator hose, you will be amazed what crap comes out.....
Then when the water is running clear, connect up again and refill..(Don't forget the antifreeze)
Possibly the heater matrix is faulty???
Try blocking 50% of the radiator off with cardboard, see if that helps.......
Then when the water is running clear, connect up again and refill..(Don't forget the antifreeze)
Possibly the heater matrix is faulty???
Try blocking 50% of the radiator off with cardboard, see if that helps.......
Cheers for the replies everyone, the new stat makes the engine run marginally warmer than the old one (not perceptibly, but the guage is a couple of mil higher.) im pretty sure it works ok and is correcly oriented. - at least it doesnt stick open like the old one...
Whats interestig is that i have the same engine WITHOUT a thermostat at all in my kit and still suffer chronic overheating. wierd. - but thats another problem.
What i think ill do is to do the cardboard (covered with foil to stop it getting wet and soggy) and see if i can get the temp up then. at least then ill see if i have got a airlock/blockage/knackered matrix if the heater stays rubbish.
I think that part of the problem is the viscous fan which is nicking, not only some of my power, but also providing far too much cold air for the engine/radiator.
Short term then, cardboard and a few tests with blockage clearance if necessary.
Long term, bin the viscous fan, get a kenlowe and probably flush it all and bleed it properly anyway...
sound ok?
Whats interestig is that i have the same engine WITHOUT a thermostat at all in my kit and still suffer chronic overheating. wierd. - but thats another problem.
What i think ill do is to do the cardboard (covered with foil to stop it getting wet and soggy) and see if i can get the temp up then. at least then ill see if i have got a airlock/blockage/knackered matrix if the heater stays rubbish.
I think that part of the problem is the viscous fan which is nicking, not only some of my power, but also providing far too much cold air for the engine/radiator.
Short term then, cardboard and a few tests with blockage clearance if necessary.
Long term, bin the viscous fan, get a kenlowe and probably flush it all and bleed it properly anyway...
sound ok?
Sounds to me like the stat is faulty or leaking. You could confirm this by checking the top hose temperature as the car warms up. If it starts to warm up straight away, that's the problem. If it stays fairly cold until the engine gets close to the normal operating temperature, the stat is OK and there is something very strange going on.
Heater matrix (heat exchanger) may have failed. Alternatively you may just have a fooked radiator (and that means all sorts of potential problems). Sometimes small engined cars struggle, but I wouldn't expect it from a 2.0
I remember a friend of mine had a mini 998cc. We used to go out in the winter and had to wear our jackets and gloves in the car as the heater put out such a patehtic amount of heat. I think the engine was a bit weedy in that case, and nothing made it through to the cabin.
Another observation. You know sometimes you see London taxis with pieces of card covering up their part of their front radiator grilles. I'm assuming this is the same problem. As the taxis are designed for sitting in stationary traffic in hot weather, when they're in cold weather the radiator cools the engine down so much that they need to restrict the airflow over the radiator to get any heat inside the cab. Just a guess.
I remember a friend of mine had a mini 998cc. We used to go out in the winter and had to wear our jackets and gloves in the car as the heater put out such a patehtic amount of heat. I think the engine was a bit weedy in that case, and nothing made it through to the cabin.
Another observation. You know sometimes you see London taxis with pieces of card covering up their part of their front radiator grilles. I'm assuming this is the same problem. As the taxis are designed for sitting in stationary traffic in hot weather, when they're in cold weather the radiator cools the engine down so much that they need to restrict the airflow over the radiator to get any heat inside the cab. Just a guess.
Thanks for the continued help everyone, and there is an update! With reference to the top rad hose, even though it is a new stat, it does leak very slightly which im sure doesnt help. however, as ive just changed it ill explore other avenues first - a slight dribble cant be leaking all THAT much coolant can it?
ALSO - importantly, ive managed to solve my percieved huge fuel consumption issue. The fuel guage has gone loco and perhaps the temp guage too? even wierder, when i put my lights on i get a higher reading than when theyre off. very poss a voltage rectifier issue then.
SO - we have the facts. the temp guage is poss unreliable due to the VR. the stat leaks slightly but opens and closes as it should. The engine still takes forever to warm up (or get warmish) - but then - its coolant capacity is huge. Im sure the waterpump does work as well.
SO - given this info, a reasoned course of action would be a hotter stat - 92 deg rather than 88 deg (and better quality thatn the halfords one that dribbles). As well as a good old backflush of the matrix with a hose. an that should do it? in the interim though, a bit of card till the weekend! I still fancy binning the fan entirely though. its pointless 99% of the time and doesnt help matters when the weather is like this.
Have i responded to everyone in this reply? if not let me know and give me a rap on my knuckles!
Thanks again for the hints and tips guys
Paolo
ALSO - importantly, ive managed to solve my percieved huge fuel consumption issue. The fuel guage has gone loco and perhaps the temp guage too? even wierder, when i put my lights on i get a higher reading than when theyre off. very poss a voltage rectifier issue then.
SO - we have the facts. the temp guage is poss unreliable due to the VR. the stat leaks slightly but opens and closes as it should. The engine still takes forever to warm up (or get warmish) - but then - its coolant capacity is huge. Im sure the waterpump does work as well.
SO - given this info, a reasoned course of action would be a hotter stat - 92 deg rather than 88 deg (and better quality thatn the halfords one that dribbles). As well as a good old backflush of the matrix with a hose. an that should do it? in the interim though, a bit of card till the weekend! I still fancy binning the fan entirely though. its pointless 99% of the time and doesnt help matters when the weather is like this.
Have i responded to everyone in this reply? if not let me know and give me a rap on my knuckles!
Thanks again for the hints and tips guys
Paolo
If the voltage regulator is shagged it may turn out that the current stat is maintaining the engine at the right (Ford recommended) temperature. In this case don't run her hotter with a new stat - just sort out the heater matrix or heating circuit on/off valve and Fanny should be your aunt.
*** update! ***
ok. ive been a busy old paolo and we have an update on the situation, though, somewhat disappointingly, no more real progress.
I have:
1) replaced the voltage rectifier on the back of the dash to ensure reliable readings.
2) fitted a new stat as mentioned above
3) backflushed the whole system - all i got was bright blue coolant - no rust at all? from a ford? wierd!
4) checked for leaks, airlocks etc - or anything else obvious that i might have missed.
the result? the damn thing STILL doesnt warm up! the fanbelt is tight on the waterpump so i think that works ok. i do have a couple of grains of evidence tho.
the top hose gets warm long before it should. a leaky stat? but i just changed it and i boil tested the old one and that worked just fine! ive got a feeling if i tested this one in the kettle (sorry mum) that it would work just fine too. the seal on the outside of the stat is flawless, perhaps it just dribbles a bit? would that rob my car of all its heat? this is just crazy!
the funny thing is that the engine is really cold, even when running! you can put your hand on a lot of parts that you shouldnt be able to.
i had a rational think and know that a) and engine produces heat and b) said heat can only really be shifted through the radiator.
but, given that the old stat worked fine and so, more than likely, does the new one, how on earth can the water be sneaking past and leaving me in a cold car?
im not joking, i get more heat by breathing on my hand than i do sticking it in front of the heater!
advice? tips? im baffled!
ok. ive been a busy old paolo and we have an update on the situation, though, somewhat disappointingly, no more real progress.
I have:
1) replaced the voltage rectifier on the back of the dash to ensure reliable readings.
2) fitted a new stat as mentioned above
3) backflushed the whole system - all i got was bright blue coolant - no rust at all? from a ford? wierd!
4) checked for leaks, airlocks etc - or anything else obvious that i might have missed.
the result? the damn thing STILL doesnt warm up! the fanbelt is tight on the waterpump so i think that works ok. i do have a couple of grains of evidence tho.
the top hose gets warm long before it should. a leaky stat? but i just changed it and i boil tested the old one and that worked just fine! ive got a feeling if i tested this one in the kettle (sorry mum) that it would work just fine too. the seal on the outside of the stat is flawless, perhaps it just dribbles a bit? would that rob my car of all its heat? this is just crazy!
the funny thing is that the engine is really cold, even when running! you can put your hand on a lot of parts that you shouldnt be able to.
i had a rational think and know that a) and engine produces heat and b) said heat can only really be shifted through the radiator.
but, given that the old stat worked fine and so, more than likely, does the new one, how on earth can the water be sneaking past and leaving me in a cold car?
im not joking, i get more heat by breathing on my hand than i do sticking it in front of the heater!
advice? tips? im baffled!
hi guys,
the problem is, or, seems to be a total lack of heat from the engine. the hoses going to the heater matrix are only tepid even straight from the block. clearly the coolant is getting to the rad somehow and wasting my heat. this is my second stat now tho, and when removed, the first one was found to be working just fine. how can the coolant be sneaking past?
the problem is, or, seems to be a total lack of heat from the engine. the hoses going to the heater matrix are only tepid even straight from the block. clearly the coolant is getting to the rad somehow and wasting my heat. this is my second stat now tho, and when removed, the first one was found to be working just fine. how can the coolant be sneaking past?
If the heater core (matrix) is completely (or nearly so) blocked, no water will flow through the hoses leading to and from it, therefore they will not warm up.
Can you take the heater hose from the matrix to the rad/block off and confirm that water is being pumped through it?
Are the upper and lower rad hoses getting hot to the touch?
Does your temp gauge read differently since you have replaced the VR?
Your kit is likely overheating because you DON'T have a thermostat. A cooling system requires one to work properly.
Gary
Can you take the heater hose from the matrix to the rad/block off and confirm that water is being pumped through it?
Are the upper and lower rad hoses getting hot to the touch?
Does your temp gauge read differently since you have replaced the VR?
Your kit is likely overheating because you DON'T have a thermostat. A cooling system requires one to work properly.
Gary
ok,
ive done further testing and it looks like water IS getting past the stat but its weird. the whole engine is cool (top hose, block etc - ie the guage is correct) but interestingly i get spits of boiling water out of the rad when the cap is off. could localised boiling near the stat be opening it and confusing it? i dont think the problem is really related to the heater matrix anymore as the hoses going to/from are only lukewarm anyway. the issue seems to be that the heat is getting to the rad which is doing its thing as its designed to!
ive tried the cardboard in front of the rad trick and it works but its not a solution im happy with. im tempted to undo my fan blades to stop the rad robbing me of my heat, but id be bugggered if i got stuck in traffic!
ive done further testing and it looks like water IS getting past the stat but its weird. the whole engine is cool (top hose, block etc - ie the guage is correct) but interestingly i get spits of boiling water out of the rad when the cap is off. could localised boiling near the stat be opening it and confusing it? i dont think the problem is really related to the heater matrix anymore as the hoses going to/from are only lukewarm anyway. the issue seems to be that the heat is getting to the rad which is doing its thing as its designed to!
ive tried the cardboard in front of the rad trick and it works but its not a solution im happy with. im tempted to undo my fan blades to stop the rad robbing me of my heat, but id be bugggered if i got stuck in traffic!
I'd say that sounds like an air lock in the engine somewhere.
What happens if you remove the cap and leave it run long enough to warm up?
If it is an airlock it will look normal til the stat opens, then you will get a lot of bubbles, possibly even causing the rad to momentarily overflow, then go down quite a bit. Top up and try again.
Doesn't sound like a cracked head/bad head gasket to me. Since the rad hoses aren't getting warm, the water isn't flowing properly. Either there is air in the system, or the pump isn't moving enough water.
Not sure how to confirm the pump is working properly though.
Gary
What happens if you remove the cap and leave it run long enough to warm up?
If it is an airlock it will look normal til the stat opens, then you will get a lot of bubbles, possibly even causing the rad to momentarily overflow, then go down quite a bit. Top up and try again.
Doesn't sound like a cracked head/bad head gasket to me. Since the rad hoses aren't getting warm, the water isn't flowing properly. Either there is air in the system, or the pump isn't moving enough water.
Not sure how to confirm the pump is working properly though.
Gary
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