intercooler or chargecooler ?
Discussion
stevieturbo said:
Personally, I dont think the heat soak claims about chargecoolers are proven.
If you have cold water circulating through it all the time, when exactly is it going to get hot ?
Yes, it needs sufficient coolant capacity. It's also been said that air/air intercoolers are heat soaks as well, especially when you back off, slow down and the heat goes into the inlet tract ready for when you put your foot down! I'll use chargecoolers or water injection. Intercoolers might be ok for racing applications where you are on the gas all the time?
Boosted.
Intercoolers are light, cheaper and zero maintenance.
And can be very effective, especially if you have the rom in teh front of the car for adequate size.
If both are configured properly, I dont really see one being miles better than the other. Both have packaging constraints, and both have good points or bad.
And for most lowish boost applications, certainly wont make much odds, as long they arent restrictive to flow.
Under about 10psi, then inlet charge shouldnt be that hot anyway. Over 10psi, then things do start to heat up.
And can be very effective, especially if you have the rom in teh front of the car for adequate size.
If both are configured properly, I dont really see one being miles better than the other. Both have packaging constraints, and both have good points or bad.
And for most lowish boost applications, certainly wont make much odds, as long they arent restrictive to flow.
Under about 10psi, then inlet charge shouldnt be that hot anyway. Over 10psi, then things do start to heat up.
I found this interesting:
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gavinp/airwater.htm
show's the lessons learnt and the pumps to use.
Taking it further, i was thinking of using either using a heater matrix or a small radiator instead of using oil cooler's as they are designed for cooling water.
Eliot.
www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gavinp/airwater.htm
show's the lessons learnt and the pumps to use.
Taking it further, i was thinking of using either using a heater matrix or a small radiator instead of using oil cooler's as they are designed for cooling water.
Eliot.
The thing with water is, that given its specific heat absorbtion, it will take a lot more heat before the heat exchanger heat soaks, but when it does it will take ages to cool down again. Best is to go for a pump that is designed for continuous operation. A lot oaf commercially available systems use a cheap pump that would have a short life when being 'on' permanently so they tend to be triggered with a boost pressure or temperature switch. Neither method impresses me.
Personally I'm all for a liquid/air intercooling system because the heat exchanger can be placed where it allows the shortest/straightest possible intake air path. And anyone familiar with turbocharged applications will confirm that in give or take motoring and 'real' track driving, one would gladly sacrifice a modicum of ultimate power for better throttle response.
Apart from that, I'd rather have a couple of kgs of heat exchanger sitting near my engine, than hung out way in front of the front axle line.
Personally I'm all for a liquid/air intercooling system because the heat exchanger can be placed where it allows the shortest/straightest possible intake air path. And anyone familiar with turbocharged applications will confirm that in give or take motoring and 'real' track driving, one would gladly sacrifice a modicum of ultimate power for better throttle response.
Apart from that, I'd rather have a couple of kgs of heat exchanger sitting near my engine, than hung out way in front of the front axle line.
Boosted LS1 said:
Personally, I dont think the heat soak claims about chargecoolers are proven.
If you have cold water circulating through it all the time, when exactly is it going to get hot ?
Yes, it needs sufficient coolant capacity. It's also been said that air/air intercoolers are heat soaks as well, especially when you back off, slow down and the heat goes into the inlet tract ready for when you put your foot down! I'll use chargecoolers or water injection. Intercoolers might be ok for racing applications where you are on the gas all the time?
Boosted.
the best option for boost presures of 10psi or more is a air to air intercooler. they are more efficent than a water to air set up. the problem with air to air coolers is thier size. to get a low temp induction on a high presure turbo set up will requier a large cooler. thus on something like a mid engiens det up you will have difficulties mouting the cooler in a good amout of air flow, though fors did a good job with the RS200. i this situation go for a air to water setup. this will allow you to mount the cooler's rad/s where in a better posision (such as right at the front) and also make for a less complicated engine bay. high power dragsters tend to run air to water coolers (filled with ice/water) coz they offer better cooling over the short run, and less presure drop (another problem with large coolers). but for road use this is useless!
for presures less than 10psi you are better going with a water injection or even an alky injection. this is because at about 10psi (so i was told!) the charge temp really starts to climb.
for the best performance though, i would fit both an air to air cooler (if sapce permitted) and water injection. the WI will let you run higher boost and more ignition (more ignition and higher comp. ratio on a N/A) without det. it will also let yoy lean out the mixture a bit to help make those last few bhp!
hope this helps in your choice. thanks Chris.
for presures less than 10psi you are better going with a water injection or even an alky injection. this is because at about 10psi (so i was told!) the charge temp really starts to climb.
for the best performance though, i would fit both an air to air cooler (if sapce permitted) and water injection. the WI will let you run higher boost and more ignition (more ignition and higher comp. ratio on a N/A) without det. it will also let yoy lean out the mixture a bit to help make those last few bhp!
hope this helps in your choice. thanks Chris.
i think there are a few misconsections about what water injection actualy does. it will provied some cooling capabilites, just because it will be at a lower temp than that of the charge air. but the major advantage is in the cylinders. the water acts as a energy absorber. so when you get dreded det (suddern and vrey high increases in cylinder presure) the water absorbs some of this energy, reducing the chance of the det. exspanding. if you do a search on the net you will cme up with a much better explination.
if you want proper cooling from an addertive then you would have to look at alky injection. this actualy reduces the inlet temp and increase the octane of the mixture.
you are still best to cool the intake with a "cooler" then put water/alky in there to let you run more boost/ignition/comp. ratio and less det.
hope this helps, thanks Chris.
if you want proper cooling from an addertive then you would have to look at alky injection. this actualy reduces the inlet temp and increase the octane of the mixture.
you are still best to cool the intake with a "cooler" then put water/alky in there to let you run more boost/ignition/comp. ratio and less det.
hope this helps, thanks Chris.
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff