400bhp wanted, Chevy or Rover V8
Discussion
I can get hold of a crated chevy engine (ie complete, assembled, run in and new) in the 350-400bhp range on pump unleaded for around $4000. That's going to be around £3k after shipping on a slow boat and duty I reckon. The engine will be lightly stressed (70 bhp/litre), ~9:1 compression, future upgrade parts are widely available if required, and I know the chevy lumps fairly well.
Don't know a lot about RV8's, what sort of parts list and budget would I be looking at for that kind of performance? I can assemble the engine myself no problem but I would need to budget for any machine work required if starting from a s/h block for example. I know the RV8 lump will be a fair bit lighter, which = free performance upgrade. Would it be reliable at that level? I want to be able to dirve it hard without worrying about problems, I certainly don't want to be spending loads of money on repairing/refreshing it every other month!
Background on the project, don't want to go into specifics because I am hoping to surprise a few people but the engine will be going in a fairly lightweight early 80's japanese sportscar. I can make either engine fit and I can do all the fabrication work myself so "install time" is not a major factor. The suspension (and brakes, and diff!) will be re-engineered in either case so I can compensate (to some extent)for the weight increase of a chevy but going RV8 would make that job easier I guess! The original engine/gearbox weighs around 200kg from memory. Total car weight *minus engine* should be right around 900-1000kg I hope, I am stripping the interior but adding a substantial rollcage. The car is being built for reliable trackday fun and general hooning around in, fast lap times not critical. I am looking for an excess of power over grip, a diabolical soundtrack, and blistering acceleration up to around 130mph.
Like I say, I don't know a whole lot about what is possible with the RV8 so I figured I would throw it open to discussion by the experts on here!
Don't know a lot about RV8's, what sort of parts list and budget would I be looking at for that kind of performance? I can assemble the engine myself no problem but I would need to budget for any machine work required if starting from a s/h block for example. I know the RV8 lump will be a fair bit lighter, which = free performance upgrade. Would it be reliable at that level? I want to be able to dirve it hard without worrying about problems, I certainly don't want to be spending loads of money on repairing/refreshing it every other month!
Background on the project, don't want to go into specifics because I am hoping to surprise a few people but the engine will be going in a fairly lightweight early 80's japanese sportscar. I can make either engine fit and I can do all the fabrication work myself so "install time" is not a major factor. The suspension (and brakes, and diff!) will be re-engineered in either case so I can compensate (to some extent)for the weight increase of a chevy but going RV8 would make that job easier I guess! The original engine/gearbox weighs around 200kg from memory. Total car weight *minus engine* should be right around 900-1000kg I hope, I am stripping the interior but adding a substantial rollcage. The car is being built for reliable trackday fun and general hooning around in, fast lap times not critical. I am looking for an excess of power over grip, a diabolical soundtrack, and blistering acceleration up to around 130mph.
Like I say, I don't know a whole lot about what is possible with the RV8 so I figured I would throw it open to discussion by the experts on here!
Agree, from what i've read and heard the chevvy is the way to go. I already did fuel injection and high tech in my other "toy" car (supra with a large turbo, full fuel system and aftermarket ECU mapped by myself), a mappable EFI system is a wonderful thing but I want to do an n/a engine with carb this time for a change. As much for the sound effects as for anything else, eg I am basing my cam choice on how cool the idle will sound . . . I know, I know 
Chevy every time - it may be heavier (not too much if it has aluminium heads), but it'll last a lot longer. Shame you don't want EFI, as the LS6 would fit your bill exactly (2nd hand out of a wrecked vette - think they're about $5500 crate) and is actually slightly lighter than the RV8.
Plus the chevy will sound better
Plus the chevy will sound better
Fatboy said:
Chevy every time - it may be heavier (not too much if it has aluminium heads), but it'll last a lot longer. Shame you don't want EFI, as the LS6 would fit your bill exactly (2nd hand out of a wrecked vette - think they're about $5500 crate) and is actually slightly lighter than the RV8.
Plus the chevy will sound better
Carbs (4 barrel) and a carbed intake are available for the ls1 which is an all aluminium engine already. There is also a much simpler ecu to suit the carbed configuration. 400 hp/lbs/ft is relatively straightforward to get.
Boosted.
Got for the Chevy.....but watch the specs if you are looking at upgrading power at a later date. A 400BHP engine will have just about every component 'limited' at around 400BHP. For example, you wont have pistons and rods that will, say, handle 600BHP reliably.
In other words, while you see 'new' Chevys rated at evrything between 300bhp and 700+bhp, don't assume that the difference in purchase price between each power 'hike' (maybe a few £K for each 100BHP) is what you'll have to pay later to hike the power if you want to. If you want a 400BHP engine that you plan one day to take to, say, 500BHP, you will pay lots more in the long run that buying a 500BHP engine now.
Also, why import? There are quite a few small blocks in the UK at reasonable prices. There's a couple on eBay - don't know what they'll end up at, but I'd be surprised if its more that £2.5K.
Or get one built here. I've a 'damaged' engine, but with a decent top-end. Needs a new set of rods, pistons and a liner, but parts required plus rebuild to any spec would surely cost less than an import?
Lots of options.....
WB
In other words, while you see 'new' Chevys rated at evrything between 300bhp and 700+bhp, don't assume that the difference in purchase price between each power 'hike' (maybe a few £K for each 100BHP) is what you'll have to pay later to hike the power if you want to. If you want a 400BHP engine that you plan one day to take to, say, 500BHP, you will pay lots more in the long run that buying a 500BHP engine now.
Also, why import? There are quite a few small blocks in the UK at reasonable prices. There's a couple on eBay - don't know what they'll end up at, but I'd be surprised if its more that £2.5K.
Or get one built here. I've a 'damaged' engine, but with a decent top-end. Needs a new set of rods, pistons and a liner, but parts required plus rebuild to any spec would surely cost less than an import?
Lots of options.....
WB
good ladaww999 said:
The LS1/6 are fabulous, no doubt about that! However, even with a carbed setup I can see it doubling my budget easily. Unless someone wants to tell me different!
Well, according to here it'd increase your budget by about 50% to go for a 330 bhp LS1, or double it for a 400 bhp LS6...
Many crate motors do not include all ancilliaries, so theres extra costs involved, and IMO buying new would be a waste of money, when used cut-out motors are so cheap, and you get everything needed for a conversion.
You dont need to buy the Vette engine to get a good LS1 motor.
$5500 for just the engine is a bit much.
I bought my 01 Camaro LS1 including T56 gearbox for $4500, obviously + shipping and taxes etc.
I guess you could source a used LS1 engine only for around $3500 or maybe less, with very few miles.
That is a bargain.
Or indeed if you want similar for evenb less money, buy the 6.0 LQ9, or LQ4 truck engine. it is essentially the same LS1 engine, but with an iron block. I would guess at these being very cheap.
The carb setup for the LS1 isnt that expensive either, and achieving 400bhp+ is relatively easy, and would be totally reliable.
You dont need to buy the Vette engine to get a good LS1 motor.
$5500 for just the engine is a bit much.
I bought my 01 Camaro LS1 including T56 gearbox for $4500, obviously + shipping and taxes etc.
I guess you could source a used LS1 engine only for around $3500 or maybe less, with very few miles.
That is a bargain.
Or indeed if you want similar for evenb less money, buy the 6.0 LQ9, or LQ4 truck engine. it is essentially the same LS1 engine, but with an iron block. I would guess at these being very cheap.
The carb setup for the LS1 isnt that expensive either, and achieving 400bhp+ is relatively easy, and would be totally reliable.
Stevie's quite correct. People need to research carefully. The ls6 is nearly always offered without an ecu or loom and the pas, alt, air plus various brackets and tensioners are missing. They also don't include the maf meter etc. The ls1's come with a loom and ecu but are lesser specced engines, still missing lots of parts. The stock ecu isn't best suited to retrofitting without mods so is a DTA or similar a better option? Failing that you may have some work to do to get it up and running properly.
I think if budgets an issue it's best to buy a used cut-out but try to get a warranty and use it as it comes for a while. Then in a years time you can take it apart and improve it. You can have ls6 power from an ls1.
Boosted.
I think if budgets an issue it's best to buy a used cut-out but try to get a warranty and use it as it comes for a while. Then in a years time you can take it apart and improve it. You can have ls6 power from an ls1.
Boosted.
I nearly bought an LS1 with a T56 last year from a 00 Camaro in Texas, but I was outbid (on eBay). Luckily, a friend who I know from the TVRCC North America heard of my plans and mentioned that he works for GM in Detroit.
A couple of months and a few dozen emails later, I became the owner of a Chevy ZZ4 crate engine and a brand new T56 box. Found a good deal on a Speed Demon carb, flywheel and clutch off eBay and the Serpentine-driven ancilliaries from Summit. GM claim 350bhp and 405ft/lb. The lot was assembled for me by another pal who runs a speed shop near Detroit and the whole lot was shipped to me. I'm not saying what the total cast was as I got it as 'trade', but it was far cheaper than trying to tune a Rover engine. It's going into a TVR, if you pop into RT Racing in Sheffield, you'll see which one.
With the exchange rate being so much in our favour, compared to 18 months ago, the Chevy route is the only sensible one, in my opinion.
A couple of months and a few dozen emails later, I became the owner of a Chevy ZZ4 crate engine and a brand new T56 box. Found a good deal on a Speed Demon carb, flywheel and clutch off eBay and the Serpentine-driven ancilliaries from Summit. GM claim 350bhp and 405ft/lb. The lot was assembled for me by another pal who runs a speed shop near Detroit and the whole lot was shipped to me. I'm not saying what the total cast was as I got it as 'trade', but it was far cheaper than trying to tune a Rover engine. It's going into a TVR, if you pop into RT Racing in Sheffield, you'll see which one.
With the exchange rate being so much in our favour, compared to 18 months ago, the Chevy route is the only sensible one, in my opinion.
Older chevy's (iron block) are plenty easy to find and well catered for in the after market. Parts are cheap but they are heavy being iron blocks. They are comparable to the rv8 in the bhp/ton department but I always favoured the rover, being a huge number of stones lighter.
Then I found the Gen 3 ls1, I was smitten and sold off all my rover stuff. Only the big end shells from an ls1 are in common with a Gen 1 engine. Everything else is from a brand new sheet and designed for performance. Many new performance bench marks have been established with the ls1, engine block strength, rod strength, roller cam lift etc etc and GM haven't stopped there.
It's now the ls1 for me for many years to come, it's the daddy!
Boosted.
Then I found the Gen 3 ls1, I was smitten and sold off all my rover stuff. Only the big end shells from an ls1 are in common with a Gen 1 engine. Everything else is from a brand new sheet and designed for performance. Many new performance bench marks have been established with the ls1, engine block strength, rod strength, roller cam lift etc etc and GM haven't stopped there.
It's now the ls1 for me for many years to come, it's the daddy!
Boosted.
Boosted LS1 said:
Older chevy's (iron block) are plenty easy to find and well catered for in the after market. Parts are cheap but they are heavy being iron blocks. They are comparable to the rv8 in the bhp/ton department but I always favoured the rover, being a huge number of stones lighter.
Then I found the Gen 3 ls1, I was smitten and sold off all my rover stuff. Only the big end shells from an ls1 are in common with a Gen 1 engine. Everything else is from a brand new sheet and designed for performance. Many new performance bench marks have been established with the ls1, engine block strength, rod strength, roller cam lift etc etc and GM haven't stopped there.
It's now the ls1 for me for many years to come, it's the daddy!
Boosted.
The LS series are the Daddy really, aren't they?
IIRC Lotus had a hand in their development? They also retain the gorgeous SBC sound
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