Stripped thread in the block - Help!

Stripped thread in the block - Help!

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rustybin

Original Poster:

1,769 posts

245 months

Monday 11th October 2004
quotequote all
Putting a cylinder head back on (BMW 523i) and didn't even get two of the bolts up to the jointing torque (40Nm) before it became apparent that they werent going in any further. Undoing them; same effect. Managed to remove the bolt and the thread has come with it. Any ideas how this could have happened? And probably more importantly: What the hell do I do now?

Apache

39,731 posts

291 months

Monday 11th October 2004
quotequote all
rustybin said:
Putting a cylinder head back on (BMW 523i) and didn't even get two of the bolts up to the jointing torque (40Nm) before it became apparent that they werent going in any further. Undoing them; same effect. Managed to remove the bolt and the thread has come with it. Any ideas how this could have happened? And probably more importantly: What the hell do I do now?



Sounds like these were buggered previously and have been helicoiled, which means putting in a new thread insert.

Don't sweat it, someone will be along soon totell you how to sort it out

nighthawk

1,757 posts

251 months

Monday 11th October 2004
quotequote all
Did you make sure that the threads were cleaned out?

i'm wondering if you've had oil or water down there which has caused a hydraulic lock causing the overload on the threads?

if it'd really fubar, i'd suggest getting it re tapped by an engineering firm, maybe a helicoil could be used as mentioned already.

deltaf

6,806 posts

260 months

Monday 11th October 2004
quotequote all
Either Helicoil or Re-coil (my fave).
Either way youll end up drilling out the old hole to slightly oversize and then tapping in a new thread before the insert goes in.
Not a problem, happens all the time especially on alloy.

rustybin

Original Poster:

1,769 posts

245 months

Monday 11th October 2004
quotequote all
Thanks guys, I don't feel quite such a moron now. I had cleaned the threads out very carefully as the head gasket blow had resulted in water and oil spread liberally around and into the threads so I don't think hydraulics was a problem. There doean't appear to be a helicoil in as the existing thread came out beautifully attached to the bolt (which looked like a rod when it came out.

To helicoil (or equivalent) the block, I assume I will need to drill slightly oversize. How can this be done accurately without taking the block out and to a machine shop. Or can't it.

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.

wedg1e

26,892 posts

272 months

Monday 11th October 2004
quotequote all
One cause is using a bolt that's too long (or forgetting a washer - unlikely on a head bolt). You bottom the bolt, then it only takes about half a turn before the bolt rips the entire length of thread away, which then stays in the bolt helix as you describe.
You COULD repair it in situ, but you'd have to be bloody square with your drilling.

rustybin

Original Poster:

1,769 posts

245 months

Tuesday 12th October 2004
quotequote all
Pretty sure the bolt is OK as the others are fine and they are OEM suuplied. My thinking so far with the drilling was to make (or more likely have made)a template out of 1/2" thick steel with three holes, two to accept bolts to locate the template on adjacent head bolt holes and one to act as a guide for the drill. A similar template could then be used to ensure that the tapping is straight.

Alfa Mad

219 posts

250 months

Tuesday 12th October 2004
quotequote all
Check first that you are able to get a repair kit of the correct size. If so, I think that if you were to use drillsof very slightly larger sizes, and increase the bore size in a few steps, then the drill should guide itself fairly well.

However, I have never drilled more than about M12 for recoil, and certainly not for any significant depth. I suggest you take advice from your local Auto Machinist. I have also been told that a mobile service is offered by some specialists (though not Auto Machinists), but I have never found any. If so, paying £50 or so for a mobile service is possibly your best bet.

steve_D

13,796 posts

265 months

Thursday 14th October 2004
quotequote all
Get the repair kit.
It should come with a tap for the oversize thread, a number of coil inserts and the tool for fitting them. It should also tell you the size to drill. This is important so you would do well to buy the drill at the same time.

The size of hole you will drill is about the same size as the outside diameter of the existing bolt so the easiest way to make sure you drill the hole square is to drop the head back on and use that as you drill guide.

Fitting the insert is simple and should present no problems.

Don't beat yourself up over this as it is all to common. (Ask me how I know).

Steve

rustybin

Original Poster:

1,769 posts

245 months

Friday 15th October 2004
quotequote all
I have tried finding one of the wandering thread repair guys but they seem somewhat thin on the ground and not too interested in private work. So I am taking the plunge and DIYing. An M10 recoil kit and additional longer inserts are on order. Fortunately I have a freind who is a tool maker so I will get him to make up a jig to get the drill and tap running straight.

Thanks again.

steve_D

13,796 posts

265 months

Friday 15th October 2004
quotequote all
Another thought.
It may pay you to put the head back on minus the gasket and pull all the other bolts down to full torque. The last thing you want is to coil the ones that have failed only to have more go when you have your second new gasket in place.

Again, ask me how I know.

Steve

rustybin

Original Poster:

1,769 posts

245 months

Friday 15th October 2004
quotequote all
Steve-D. I had been thinking somewhere along those lines as well but using the (now scrap) gasket as I don't want to risk the bolts bottoming out. Go on then... ...what did you do?

>> Edited by rustybin on Friday 15th October 17:07

rustybin

Original Poster:

1,769 posts

245 months

Wednesday 24th November 2004
quotequote all
Thanks to all who offered advice on this. The head is now back on with fourteen drilled and re-coiled threads in the block. One of the most stressful things I have done in a long time. All seems to be running fine.

Thanks again.