Engine Injection - A Query

[vlc]

Here's my list of what aids engine performance when injected into it, based upon previous comments here.

methanol, ethanol, pure oxygen, nitrous oxide, water, [any more?]

however, my querys -

[1a] could all of the above injectants be put into the same [tho empty] cylinder, an then be injected without any adjustment to the plumbing an valves etc, or would a computer or device be needed to reset things for each chemical type?
[1b] I assume that any gas is under pressure it would flow automatically inward, but a liquid would flow-in ok as via gravity if the cylinder were higher than the combustion chamber - true/untrue?
[1c] Or possibly could a release [output] valve self-adjust to what its regulating thru it?

[2a] as ive been told here that making nitro-oxide gas at home is too much hassle, i wonder if any of the above injection alternatives could be home made, or...
[2b]...be produced from basic materials as an offshoot of the engine running, in like the way the car battery is charged from excess engine power?

[edc]

Not much good without extra fuel to burn. Use some sort of pump to inject.

[vlc]

edc said:

Not much good without extra fuel to burn. Use some sort of pump to inject.

does this mean that any injection-based engine needs an above average sized fuel tank to work best?
also, surely only a pump is needed if the cylinder contains a liquid?
but if it were compress-filed then you wouldnt need it maybe?
but if the setup did require a pump, then how would it adjust if a gas was used to fill the injection-cylinder?
????

[edc]

Depends what you are putting in, how much and for how long. For water injetion look at sites such as Aquamist and for NOS try NOS wizard/Wizards of NOS.

[kevinday]

From the little I know methanol and ethanol are two alternative fuels to petrol, not additives. The burn temperature and speed is different when compared with petrol. Pure oxygen? never heard of this as an additive, pure oxygen is somewhat dangerous! NOS and water? yep, both act as a booster by increasing the oxygen content. You would need to pump the stuff, controlled by some sort of metering system, otherwise your fuel/oxygen mix would not be 'correct'.

[annodomini2]

Water is used on turbo cars to reduce temperature of the air/fuel mixture entering the chamber as they can pink when it gets too hot from running high boost. But under the temperatures involved, water will not break down for oxygen.

[chuntington101]

Please before you look into doing anything with involing the above then do alot of reserch on them. dont get me wrong, i thing many of the above are graet ways to increase performance, especialy on turboed engines, but you need to be VERY careful.

any questions on the above then please ask and i will do my best to help. tried to look at all the above, but it would have taken me 3 days to write all the stuff.

thanks Chris.

[vlc]

kevinday said:

From the little I know methanol and ethanol are two alternative fuels to petrol, not additives.

really, i thought they were additives as well, is that wrong or right then, anybody?

re the fuel/oxygen mix, i wondered if the engine could produce its own oxygen from an air inlet, store it in a cylinder, then mix it in when full.
possible?

an how do ya make menthnol/ethanol anyway?

[cyberface]

What you're basically trying to do with any chemical combustion engine is take a bunch of chemicals that have a high 'energy' (i.e. bond energies in the molecules), and react them to make a bunch of chemicals with lower energy bonds. The surplus energy (in the form of heat) is used to do work (like making your car go).

Trying to take the low-energy chemicals (such as water) and split them up to get high-energy chemicals (such as molecular hydrogen and oxygen) can be done, but requires a load of energy to be put in. Where's it going to come from??

Your best bet is to start off with high energy fuels, and ensure that they combust down to the lowest energy products. I can't think of any cases in which having the car generate its own fuel adds efficiency - surely it's more efficient to let the sun, etc. create your high energy fuel (e.g. biodiesel) and then burn it yourself.

WRT alcohol / methanol - both of these can be produced from easily grown crops, thus are an alternative to oil-based fuels... but they both have lower 'energy' than your average petrol, therefore you need more in the tank to deliver the same power output...

Oxygen-containing additives like nitrous oxide are used to increase the oxygen content of the air you burn your fuel in - more oxygen means more fuel can be reacted fully, therefore more energy released. Pumping in pure oxygen rather than air will also work, but firstly you need to purify the oxygen outside the car, which will take energy from somewhere else, and secondly tanks of pure oxygen are hazardous.

For monster specific power outputs, you need to start with high-energy fuels.... rocket fuels are an example of this, and in the automotive arena, the Top Fuel dragsters use stuff like nitromethane that gives a much bigger bang when combusted.

Putting this sort of stuff into a normal car engine is likely to end in large explosions, unfortunately

To the engineers out there - I don't know the real jargon surrounding this, please correct me if I'm talking shite...

[chuntington101]

methanol and ethanll work great as "addertives" to turbo petrol power engines, esspecialy turbo engines. they will help reduce inlet temp, reduce det., and keep exhaust gas temps down. this will let you run more boost and thus make more power. as for problems, they are very cerosive and need special systems as a normal injection system, such as a water injection set up, will not be made of alcohol resistant materials.

as for using it as a fuel, the biggest thing is it will eat away and rubber and corrode many metals. you will need a custome fuel set up and also flus the lines regualy. this does not mean it cant be done. as for gains, well you will have an engine that will run very cold compared to normal fuel. this means there is much reduced thermal stress on the engine, enabling you to push the engine harder and get more power!

thanks Chris.

[John_S4x4]

Excellent previous posts - Welldone guys

One other form of injection on turbo cars is air injectors. These help control boost. A bit old hat now, though. I also believe that Toulerene (spelling?) is used, in part, on some turbo cars ?

Regards John S

[HarryW]

Might be wrong here, but AFAIK water injection not only gives charge cooling for blower cars. It also allows the fuel vapour to form a skin over it as it atomises. This then gives a better and more efficient burn as normally the centre of fuel vapour/droplets are unburnt which pass straight out of the exhuast as emmissions. As I said, I think and obviously IMHO .
Anyone that actually knows care to post .

Harry

[Fatboy]

John_S4x4 said:

Excellent previous posts - Welldone guys One other form of injection on turbo cars is air injectors. These help control boost. A bit old hat now, though. I also believe that Toulerene (spelling?) is used, in part, on some turbo cars ? Regards John S

Toluene is basically an octane booster when added to regular petrol - 9:1 toluene and regular unleaded give 100 octane petrol....