Lightweight V6's

[Pierscoe1]

thinking (yes, I'm very bored) of a future (yes, way in the future) project here... namely an FD3S RX7, with an engine swap to something more dependable/reliable/economic/nicer noise..

so.. are there any really lightweight and compact modern V6's out there? would need to be at least 3 litres if normally aspirated..

ideally a very small and light 3 litre all alloy quad-cam, with a light pressure turbo, to make 300bhp/300lb.ft

apparently the Renesis is about 170kg.. can you get V6's at this sort of weight? would also need to be very compact to keep the weight well back behind the front wheels..

also like the thought of it sounding something like the modern alfa v6

anyway... thoughts and ideas etc etc...

[Fatboy]

Well given that an LS1 V8 is only 220kg, finding a 170 kg v6 shouldn't be too hard...

[Mikey G]

Is the Ford Duratec 2.5 and 3.0 V6 in the Mondeo all alloy? I used to have one but cant remember looking under the bonnet to see what block it was

Mike

[NST]

Duratec V6 is all alloy. not sure of weight though. supposed to be one of the lightest V6 on the market.. not sure if that is true though.

[Pierscoe1]

hmm.. Duratec sounds good..

I've seen a transplant of one of those into an MX5, and apparently it didn't change the weight distrbution at all...

judging by the power seen from the I4 Duratecs, I ould have thought it's a pretty good unit, and quite tough too....

Do Noble use the Duratec? or is that an earlier engine?
hmm. wonder how much a noble engine is

[timf]

duratec v6 not so good

only one service replacement engine part losted by ford.

a new engine, no pistons,bearings etc.
hence the reason they are so cheap on ebay

[Munter]

Pierscoe1 said:

ideally a very small and light 3 litre all alloy quad-cam, with a light pressure turbo, to make 300bhp/300lb.ft

Dakkon had 300/300 comming out of his MR2 turbo....Stock internals etc just a turbo tweek...

[Incorrigible]

You mention the Alfa V6 what's wrong with that

[Pierscoe1]

timf.. didn't quite understand your post.. care to elaborate?

MR2 turbo engine is very good yes, but it's an I4.. not exactly characterful, and never make such a good noise as V's

nothing wrong with the alfa I guess.. maybe just preconceptions about it's reliability and toughness? what are alfa engines like these days?

edited to ad: and I reckon you'd loose it's nice engine note if you strapped on a tubro...

>> Edited by Pierscoe1 on Friday 24th September 13:29

[timf]

Pierscoe1 said:

timf.. didn't quite understand your post.. care to elaborate?

the only service replacement item from ford that you can buy is a replacement engine.

no bearings,pistons etc.

[NST]

i dont know about replace parts (ie pistons etc), i do not know of any real issues. i have heard off over heating problems on the 2.5 V6 (due to plastic components in water pump breaking down) but these have been fixed on the newer models.
i'd go for a ST220 engine. it doesn't have the expensive head from the Jag or the fancy inlet manifold. its just a regular engine with no variable valve timing or fancy inlet manifolds and still produces good power.

what problems are there with the 3.0 V6? i wouldn't mind knowing..

[zzr1200]

timf said:

Pierscoe1 said: timf.. didn't quite understand your post.. care to elaborate? the only service replacement item from ford that you can buy is a replacement engine. no bearings,pistons etc.

As is the case with most Ford engines and probably others too.

[RazMan]

I would say that the 2.5 or 3.0 Duratec would be the best bet. The Noble versions use twin turbo's ......... which is nice

The 2.5 only gives about 210bhp in standard trim so it might need a bit of tuning to get it to 'sing'.

I would have thought that a set of cams, decent exhaustand an aftermarket ECU would do it though

[Pierscoe1]

as said, I'd want 300 of each.. so the 3l with a single light-pressure turbo sounds about right..

any idea what they cost?

..off to search e-bay

[Munter]

Isn't the Noble a twin turbo because it's a V. One for each bank of cylinders. Would you not run into the same problems with your project?

[ATG]

What about a VW VR6? Don't know its mass, but it pretty compact and the cylinder head arrangement means you get 4 vales per cylinder with only two cams and the port layout is like an in-line engine.

[Pierscoe1]

do you have to use one turbo for each bank?

what about things like the XKR.. V8 with a single (?) supercharger...

[zzr1200]

Pierscoe1 said:

do you have to use one turbo for each bank? what about things like the XKR.. V8 with a single (?) supercharger...

You can do it with one turbo without problems, but it means the turbo may need to be a bigger one giving problems with lag at lower revs, having 2 solves this by allowing smaller turbos that spin up quicker while giving the same if not more boost availability at high revs.

Paul

[annodomini2]

name said:

What about a VW VR6

its 12v, the R32 is 24v.

Plus they've an iron block not alloy.

[chuntington101]

id go with the Alfa V6. nice unit and has bin run upto 550bhp on the road. this engine was put in the back of an ultima GTR and ran VERY well.

Ford V6s are another option. not very strong though. Noble has had a few problems with them i think.

the Nissan V6 is another way to go. these units (found in the 300ZX) have been used in long disstance racing and seam to hold up pretty well. 750bhp is attainable for road use.

also the 6R4s engine is legondary! take it upto 3.5 ltr and run it like a racer and you will be looking at 500bhp. stick 2 turbos on it and get 730bhp (like gollop did).

one quick point, if you are only arfter 300bhp and similer torque, why not opt for a 4pot? Cossy, EVO, Toyota, Zetec to namem but a few. you can pck up a Zetec Long block (i think) cappable of 500bhp for about 4K!!!!!

thanks Chris.