Discussion
vrooom said:
hmm. Im after some T2 turbo. know which car has it. or is there a listing of which car has which turbo?
im building turbo A-Series engine with smaller turbo and shorter exhaust manifold so it go between bulkhead and engine.
jay
Interesting project - are you starting with an MG metro turbo block or totally from scratch?
But as I said, a T2 is not just one turbo, in the same way a T3 isnt.
Some "T3's" may be fitted to a small 1600cc car, and be capable of supplying around 180bhp, while other T3's are on 2000+, capable of over 300bhp.
They still carry the name T3, but there is a huge variety of turbine housings, and compressors that fall within the name.
Same applies for the T2.
The Metro is actually listed as a T25.
Some "T3's" may be fitted to a small 1600cc car, and be capable of supplying around 180bhp, while other T3's are on 2000+, capable of over 300bhp.
They still carry the name T3, but there is a huge variety of turbine housings, and compressors that fall within the name.
Same applies for the T2.
The Metro is actually listed as a T25.
T2's that will do for you are any with a 0.35 or 0.48 turbine (exhaust) A/R. The T2 on the Silvia/Bluebird, and (i think) the Volvo 440 are a 0.63 A/R. The A-Series has no chance of spinning these up effectivly.
If you aren't to concerned with having water cooling, then the T2 on the LDV 200 turbo engine is ideal, as is the unit on the Montego TD.
I understand some Uno Turbos had the T2, but I've never seen one myself, i thought they were all IHI units.
The Fiesta unit is very difficult to mate to the Metro manifold - mush better bet is to stick with the 'rectangular' bolt pattern as found on the renaults...
If you aren't to concerned with having water cooling, then the T2 on the LDV 200 turbo engine is ideal, as is the unit on the Montego TD.
I understand some Uno Turbos had the T2, but I've never seen one myself, i thought they were all IHI units.
The Fiesta unit is very difficult to mate to the Metro manifold - mush better bet is to stick with the 'rectangular' bolt pattern as found on the renaults...
Probably a good idea to get all your calculations done and learn how to study compressor maps etc.
There's lots of info on the 'net plus Corky Bell's Maximum Boost book is very good.
I'm currently on the research/scavenge stage of my turbo V8 project.
Rough rule of thumb is to select a car with a displacement the same as yours. In my case i'm trying to find a pair of 2.5l turbo' to fit my 5.7L, You could look at getting a single turbo from a 3L car (300zx etc)
A few links to get you started:
www.cs.du.edu/~ljanssen/turbo_overview.html
www.dune-buggy.com/turbo/turbo.htm
www.forcedinductions.com/help.htm
Good calculator tools:
www.turbofast.com.au/javacalc.html
There's lots of info on the 'net plus Corky Bell's Maximum Boost book is very good.
I'm currently on the research/scavenge stage of my turbo V8 project.
Rough rule of thumb is to select a car with a displacement the same as yours. In my case i'm trying to find a pair of 2.5l turbo' to fit my 5.7L, You could look at getting a single turbo from a 3L car (300zx etc)
A few links to get you started:
www.cs.du.edu/~ljanssen/turbo_overview.html
www.dune-buggy.com/turbo/turbo.htm
www.forcedinductions.com/help.htm
Good calculator tools:
www.turbofast.com.au/javacalc.html
Its not as simple, as a T2 that will do has........
Consider the std Metro T2, or T25 as I think its supposed to be called.
In actual fact, it uses a T3 turbine shaft, but a very small compressor.
On mine, it uses the same T3 shaft, 0.36 turbine housing, but with a Cossie sized compressor.
This creates full boost by about 3500rpm on my 1293, holding 1.5bar to 7500rpm.
Basically this is the same Turbine housing spec as the RS Turbo, which is called a T3.
The cossie also uses the T3 shaft, but on a 0.48 housing, and with a larger compressor than the RS Turbo, but again, a T3.
So T2, T25, T3......its not as easy as it should be identifying how suitable each one is, from a part number that means so little.
Im not saying many of the ones available second hand wont work, as Im sure they will, but choose wisely.
I'd be very cautious about choosing a turbo sized for a diesel engine, for use with a petrol car. Diesels make no power, but may shift large amounts of air, so sizing, may be strange, also because a diesel effectively has no throttle, sizing will be different.
Consider the std Metro T2, or T25 as I think its supposed to be called.
In actual fact, it uses a T3 turbine shaft, but a very small compressor.
On mine, it uses the same T3 shaft, 0.36 turbine housing, but with a Cossie sized compressor.
This creates full boost by about 3500rpm on my 1293, holding 1.5bar to 7500rpm.
Basically this is the same Turbine housing spec as the RS Turbo, which is called a T3.
The cossie also uses the T3 shaft, but on a 0.48 housing, and with a larger compressor than the RS Turbo, but again, a T3.
So T2, T25, T3......its not as easy as it should be identifying how suitable each one is, from a part number that means so little.
Im not saying many of the ones available second hand wont work, as Im sure they will, but choose wisely.
I'd be very cautious about choosing a turbo sized for a diesel engine, for use with a petrol car. Diesels make no power, but may shift large amounts of air, so sizing, may be strange, also because a diesel effectively has no throttle, sizing will be different.
Stevie, sorry dude, but you have to be corrected here. The metro never had a T2, it had a T3, with a 0.25 turbine housing - one that i understand was developed specially for the tiny 1275 engine. The T2 range of turbo's first appeared in '85 - three years after the first metro came off the line. The same T3 remained on the metro till it stopped in ‘89
The compressor on the stock metro T3 is a 40 trim - the smallest available, but still listed as a stock item, unlike the 0.25 turbine.
The 'cossie' compressor you say you’ve got… so that’s a T35 compressor – I wouldn’t have thought you’d be able to machine a Metro T3 compressor housing to take this size compressor. I suspect you have a 50 trim compressor, maybe a 60 trim, but I doubt the sierra Cosworth compressor will not be at all right for a tiny 1300cc motor
The 0.36 turbine is a normal upgrade for the metro turbos, the 0.25 is really limiting at high RPM, but again, as the 0.25 is NLA, you don’t have a lot of choice but to have one..
The LDV 200 turbo has a 50 trim compressor and a 0.35 Exhaust, same as the R5GT – except it isn’t water-cooled. The 50 trim compressor with the 0.35 exhaust is perfectly matched to a 1293 in pretty good trim. I’m sure the Montego TD unit is the same compressor and trim spec also – again the main difference being these are not water-cooled (although the early R5GT units were also not water cooled). I used to reckon that TD’s wouldn’t do the job, only when I got the maps did I realise there is little different in a diesel turbo than a petrol one, other than the water-cooled core.
The stock R5GT unit in my mini regularly pulled low 14’s at Avon and York, and this year has been dipping into the 13’s on a regular basis following some detail changes to the induction and exhaust system. Trust me, they are about as perfect a turbo as you could want for a turbo A-Series.
www.manchester-minis.cwc.net/members/turbodave.htm
>> Edited by turbodave on Thursday 30th September 19:35
The compressor on the stock metro T3 is a 40 trim - the smallest available, but still listed as a stock item, unlike the 0.25 turbine.
The 'cossie' compressor you say you’ve got… so that’s a T35 compressor – I wouldn’t have thought you’d be able to machine a Metro T3 compressor housing to take this size compressor. I suspect you have a 50 trim compressor, maybe a 60 trim, but I doubt the sierra Cosworth compressor will not be at all right for a tiny 1300cc motor
The 0.36 turbine is a normal upgrade for the metro turbos, the 0.25 is really limiting at high RPM, but again, as the 0.25 is NLA, you don’t have a lot of choice but to have one..
The LDV 200 turbo has a 50 trim compressor and a 0.35 Exhaust, same as the R5GT – except it isn’t water-cooled. The 50 trim compressor with the 0.35 exhaust is perfectly matched to a 1293 in pretty good trim. I’m sure the Montego TD unit is the same compressor and trim spec also – again the main difference being these are not water-cooled (although the early R5GT units were also not water cooled). I used to reckon that TD’s wouldn’t do the job, only when I got the maps did I realise there is little different in a diesel turbo than a petrol one, other than the water-cooled core.
The stock R5GT unit in my mini regularly pulled low 14’s at Avon and York, and this year has been dipping into the 13’s on a regular basis following some detail changes to the induction and exhaust system. Trust me, they are about as perfect a turbo as you could want for a turbo A-Series.
www.manchester-minis.cwc.net/members/turbodave.htm
>> Edited by turbodave on Thursday 30th September 19:35
I dont know the compressor spec, but the metro housing was machined to accept it, and it is exactly the same as a 2wd cossie compressor wheel. Turbo Dynamics did this for me back in 94 when I put the engine together. It has beed rebuilt a few times since then, but spec is the same.
I did have the 2 apart at one stage to compare them.
Personally, I thought my setup worked very well, a bit laggy, but not too bad, and certainly has much more potential. I havent done anything with the car for about 8 years, as I moved on to other cars, and it was a tad dangerous to drive on the road.
If I ever get some spare time and money, I may have a go at it again and develop it a bit further, and build in some safety too.
I hear what you are saying with reference to the T2/T3 naming, but I was under the impression, the metro was referred to as a T25, but as I also said, it never really was a T2 at all, but in fact a small T3.
Interesting about the diesel turbos though, I wouldnt have thought them suitable at all.
Water cooling wont make much difference. its supposedly a reliability thing, on shutdown, to stop caking the oil. It certainly wouldn concern me if a turbo did, or didnt have it.
You will find a lot of rally cars turbos do have the connections, but arent used. I guess, it is a potential water leak, that serves no gains.
>> Edited by stevieturbo on Friday 1st October 01:21
I did have the 2 apart at one stage to compare them.
Personally, I thought my setup worked very well, a bit laggy, but not too bad, and certainly has much more potential. I havent done anything with the car for about 8 years, as I moved on to other cars, and it was a tad dangerous to drive on the road.
If I ever get some spare time and money, I may have a go at it again and develop it a bit further, and build in some safety too.
I hear what you are saying with reference to the T2/T3 naming, but I was under the impression, the metro was referred to as a T25, but as I also said, it never really was a T2 at all, but in fact a small T3.
Interesting about the diesel turbos though, I wouldnt have thought them suitable at all.
Water cooling wont make much difference. its supposedly a reliability thing, on shutdown, to stop caking the oil. It certainly wouldn concern me if a turbo did, or didnt have it.
You will find a lot of rally cars turbos do have the connections, but arent used. I guess, it is a potential water leak, that serves no gains.
>> Edited by stevieturbo on Friday 1st October 01:21
t2(?) on ebay - £2.70!
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21654&item=2491841876&rd=1"><a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21654&item=2491841876&rd=1">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21654&item=2491841876&rd=1</a></a>
or this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43122&item=2492223990&rd=1
e.
>> Edited by eliot on Friday 1st October 22:07
>> Edited by eliot on Friday 1st October 23:03
>> Edited by eliot on Saturday 2nd October 09:50
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21654&item=2491841876&rd=1"><a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21654&item=2491841876&rd=1">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21654&item=2491841876&rd=1</a></a>
or this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43122&item=2492223990&rd=1
e.
>> Edited by eliot on Friday 1st October 22:07
>> Edited by eliot on Friday 1st October 23:03
>> Edited by eliot on Saturday 2nd October 09:50
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