NOS info?

[RazMan]

Just looking around for some NOS info in the UK. I have decided that the turbo route is not as roadworthy (too much power in too small rev range) so maybe NOS will be the best bet for those 'spirited' moments

Has anyone got any views? I am looking to install a setup to a Rover K series 1.8 straight 4 or 2.5 V6.

[iainb]

www.bespoken20.com/
www.twistedsanity.com/

Should give you a start

[edc]

I think you should have a rethink but for info www.noswizard.com/

Turbo too small a power range? You'll find a properly set-up NOS system will be an even smaller power range and will cost you more in the longterm

[RazMan]

edc said:

I think you should have a rethink but for info www.noswizard.com/ Turbo too small a power range? You'll find a properly set-up NOS system will be an even smaller power range and will cost you more in the longterm

I have been running a 300bhp Nissan turbo for the last 5 years and all the 'grin factor' is up near the redline in turbo engines. There is very little torque where you really need it most of the time and you need to keep the revs up to be able to make good progress.

My theory is that a normally aspirated engine will have a better spread of torque accross the rev range and the NOS will only kick in when required - when the throttle is fully open. The result should be maximum fuel economy during normal road driving (whatever that is ) while still having the 'grin factor' when you need it. After all, I only rarely used all 300 bhp of the turbo power and stayed 'off boost' for perhaps 90% of road use, but the engine power curve made it very unexciting at low revs (quite a kick when the boost came in though)

A basic NOS setup can, I am told, cost less than £200 and give you up to 100bhp more power. Surely that is a cost effective solution isn't it?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[edc]

You just need the right turbo and right mapping and you can have the power low down - look at the VAG turbo'd cars they are the opposite of your Nissan power delivery. Furthermore, why not have an adj boost controller.

[flooritforever]

For a Rover 1.8 K-Series I wouldn't want to fit more than a 50 shot system. Even then you'll probabaly need to get a better head gasket fitted, otherwise it'll go pop very quickly. Probably need stronger head bolts too.

However, if your looking for power across the range, you don't want a K-series. Both the 1.8 and the KV6 need pushing to get the power. You'll find that they don't really start to pull until you get above 4000 rpm. Then you've a power band 2800 rpm wide for the 1.8, or 2500 for the KV6, to play with. NO2 would help of course, but I think fitting it to the 1.8 is a bad move without strengthening the engine first.

[eliot]

Also think about insurance. Ive got a 5.7Ltr engine, when insuring i asked how much extra for turbo or supercharger - "No Increase, You can do anything you want except Nitrous" was the answer.

E.

[ccharlie6]

i know you are keen upon a NOS system but turbo technics make a very interesting supercharger system for the K series which uses the body of a turbo i believe its called a geotec and very good it is apparently up to 230bhp. not sure about prices but it is an option


>> Edited by ccharlie6 on Monday 30th August 14:05

[RazMan]

Thanks for the feedback guys

I hadn't really considered supercharging before but that little Turbo Technics unit has got me thinking now.
As a matter of interest here's a link
www.turbotechnics.com/supercharger/intro.htm

Admittedly the V6 would give me a better starting point (and a better torque curve) but the 1.8's are more plentiful in the breakers which is where I need to find one. The Elise uses an uprated one doesn't it? Stronger headbolts, metal head gasket, lower compression pistons and shorter conrods are apparently needed when strapping on a turbo/supercharger - so a trifle expensive when you add the cost of the unit itself.

[RazMan]

edc said:

You just need the right turbo and right mapping and you can have the power low down - look at the VAG turbo'd cars they are the opposite of your Nissan power delivery. Furthermore, why not have an adj boost controller.

True, they do seem to have a better power curve so maybe I am being too finicky. A boost controller didn't really do much for my Nissan although it did smooth out the spikes quite well - still had very little 'go' under 3500rpm but it didn't stop boosting until the redline at 7500rpm ...... which was nice

[Fatboy]

ccharlie6 said:

i know you are keen upon a NOS system but turbo technics make a very interesting supercharger system for the K series which uses the body of a turbo i believe its called a geotec and very good it is apparently up to 230bhp. not sure about prices but it is an option >> Edited by ccharlie6 on Monday 30th August 14:05

Those Vortech style superchargers are great packaging wise (they take up way less space than either a turbo or rootes/screw supercharger), but not as good as rootes or screw (the best) superchargers for linear power delivery - vortech style cuperchargers do not give a linear increase in boost with revs, but they do give a rather easy to install power hike

[Pigeon]

Their website says they've more or less cancelled that effect by fitting the throttle valve upstream of the supercharger, and deliberately choosing rather stunted dimensions for the throttle, so the choking effect even on wide-open throttle counteracts the square-law characteristic of the centrifugal supercharger. Not too sure about the efficiency of such an arrangement though... Also, there is this rather important sentence:

"PLEASE NOTE: Commercial enquires are welcome, however this supercharger is not yet available to purchase as an individual item."

[Fatboy]

Pigeon said:

Their website says they've more or less cancelled that effect by fitting the throttle valve upstream of the supercharger, and deliberately choosing rather stunted dimensions for the throttle, so the choking effect even on wide-open throttle counteracts the square-law characteristic of the centrifugal supercharger. Not too sure about the efficiency of such an arrangement though... Also, there is this rather important sentence: "PLEASE NOTE: Commercial enquires are welcome, however this supercharger is not yet available to purchase as an individual item."

That does sound like a pretty inefficient way of doing things - I would have thought you'd waste less energy just dumping boost at high revs, rather than constricting the inlet - just doesn't seem right to me?

[accident]

what 300bhp turbo datsun are you running?
turbo aplications usually end up with a very wide power band and a very flat tourque curve(once on boost)unlike atmo engines that tend to produce more power the higher the revs(many exceptions to both statements)
think of nitros oxide(nos is a brand name)as chemical supercharging,like any form of forced induction the idea is more oxygen and more fuel=more power.
now if you cant make a 300bhp datsun go quick how will nitros oxide help?
drive the car,if its peaky then use the gears,if its a stump pulling v8 then use the torque.
i am a fan of nitros and have used it to good effect on a number of cars,but its there to add a finishing touch to a good car,not to drag a crap car and poor driver out of the gutter.



disclaimer:a number of comments(if not all )were ment to take the piss

[Pigeon]

Fatboy said:

Pigeon said: Their website says they've more or less cancelled that effect by fitting the throttle valve upstream of the supercharger, and deliberately choosing rather stunted dimensions for the throttle, so the choking effect even on wide-open throttle counteracts the square-law characteristic of the centrifugal supercharger. Not too sure about the efficiency of such an arrangement though... Also, there is this rather important sentence: "PLEASE NOTE: Commercial enquires are welcome, however this supercharger is not yet available to purchase as an individual item." That does sound like a pretty inefficient way of doing things - I would have thought you'd waste less energy just dumping boost at high revs, rather than constricting the inlet - just doesn't seem right to me?

Well, the dumped boost also represents wasted energy, and at the top end there would be a lot of it - if you had the centrifugal blower and a positive-displacement blower both giving the same boost at half revs, at full revs the positive-displacement blower would still be providing the correct amount of air, but the centrifugal would be providing twice as much. Really, you're buggered either way unless you go to a continuously variable drive ratio to the centrifugal blower - and once you've decided that your blower drive needs to use this oil-film-in-shear method of transmitting force, your options for CVT become rather wider.

[zakspeed]

Personally pound for pound nitrous is a quicker and easier way to make a quick power gain with the added benefit that you are not placing constant wear and tear on the engine when you are not using it. Unlike a supercharger which is permanently on boost and a turbo which ends up being on boost a large percentage of time too, depending on the size that you opt for and your driving style.
At the same time if funds allow at a latter time nitrous and turbochargers work wonderfully together, the nitrous helping to spin up larger turbo's getting rid of lag and also cooling the intake charge again allowing a turbo to reap extra benefits in efficiency.

[atom290]

I have a 1.8 K series engine, and that is supercharged.

We did do an awful lot of strengthening, including having a steel ladder made with long bolts.

But the long and short is 290bhp and 242ftLb of torque

so dont rule the engine out too quick, but I would say that following my design is better than that of the turbo techniques, as it produces more power. Im sure that you could get one made up similar to mine for a similar price if not cheaper than that of the TT conversion

[RazMan]

accident said:

what 300bhp turbo datsun are you running?

It is the 1.8 Nissan 200SX which has been worked a bit (mostly a T28 turbo with improved breathing & engine management) Still has bugger all torque under 3500rpm and is hard work to keep it spinning on the road ...... still fun though

accident said:

i am a fan of nitros and have used it to good effect on a number of cars,but its there to add a finishing touch to a good car,not to drag a crap car and poor driver out of the gutter.

My thoughts too - I just wanted to enhance a good setup with a little extra 'edge' when required.

zakspeed said:

Personally pound for pound nitrous is a quicker and easier way to make a quick power gain with the added benefit that you are not placing constant wear and tear on the engine when you are not using it. Unlike a supercharger which is permanently on boost and a turbo which ends up being on boost a large percentage of time too, depending on the size that you opt for and your driving style.

You have been inside my head haven't you!

[RazMan]

atom290 said:

I have a 1.8 K series engine, and that is supercharged. We did do an awful lot of strengthening, including having a steel ladder made with long bolts. But the long and short is 290bhp and 242ftLb of torque

WOW! That's pretty impressive atom, but what is the power curve like?

[RazMan]

atom290 said:

I have a 1.8 K series engine, and that is supercharged. We did do an awful lot of strengthening, including having a steel ladder made with long bolts. But the long and short is 290bhp and 242ftLb of torque

WOW! That's pretty impressive atom, but what is the power curve like?