New engine for a spitfire
Discussion
just testing the water on this one so any help would be greatly appreciated, this is on a budget of money and time which is why a honda S2000 conversion is nice but not really feasable.
basicly i've heard on the grape vine about the following setup and would like to know if anyone has heard about this or can see any major problems??
morris 1300 block
Metro turbo head
adaptorplate to ford type 9 box
this is only a rumor i've heard but are there any morris owners or metro owners with knowledge that could tell me if the head will go on and if the block will mount in a spitfire without much trouble.
many thanks guys
basicly i've heard on the grape vine about the following setup and would like to know if anyone has heard about this or can see any major problems??
morris 1300 block
Metro turbo head
adaptorplate to ford type 9 box
this is only a rumor i've heard but are there any morris owners or metro owners with knowledge that could tell me if the head will go on and if the block will mount in a spitfire without much trouble.
many thanks guys
Sure it's a Spitfire you have, and not a (superior :P ) Midget?
Cos the option you describe seems more suited (but not greatly) to the MG...
What engine is presently in the car, and what is wrong with it? Both the 1300 and 1500 Triumph engines can produce quite entertaining amounts of power, fairly reliably (my 1500 was RR'ed at 105bhp"fly, and has been good for 40k miles so far).
Either that or the Triumph straight six is a common conversion. Or any number of more modern engines if you are planning on fitting a Type 9 'box anyway.
What's the present situation, and what do you want form the car?
Cheers, Phil
Cos the option you describe seems more suited (but not greatly) to the MG...
What engine is presently in the car, and what is wrong with it? Both the 1300 and 1500 Triumph engines can produce quite entertaining amounts of power, fairly reliably (my 1500 was RR'ed at 105bhp"fly, and has been good for 40k miles so far).
Either that or the Triumph straight six is a common conversion. Or any number of more modern engines if you are planning on fitting a Type 9 'box anyway.
What's the present situation, and what do you want form the car?
Cheers, Phil
curretly the spitfire is running (or will be) a rebuilt 1300 engine, the car is being fully rebuilt and will be road going soon, basicly the main aim is a really fun cool looking car, i've heard the conversion was easy to do which is what caught my attention, insurance is also an issue (only 19) which is why a straight six was'nt an ideal conversion
http://britishv8.org/swaps/joesspit.htm
Far from original but awesome. May become a bit overpowered and nervous drive.
Far from original but awesome. May become a bit overpowered and nervous drive.
I've been down the tuned Spitfire route,fun while it lasted - car that is - crash bing bang etc
Probably the most cost effective solution (and should be easy as there's not much in the way on the chassis side)
Would be to bin the Leyland / rover / Triumph rubbish and find a more modern alloy 4 cylinder with a 5 speed box on the back such as a Toyota 4AG from an early celica or BMW 3 series?, You'll pay about 2-3 hundred for an engine and box,get the rad and prop as well and bung it all in.
Matt
Probably the most cost effective solution (and should be easy as there's not much in the way on the chassis side)
Would be to bin the Leyland / rover / Triumph rubbish and find a more modern alloy 4 cylinder with a 5 speed box on the back such as a Toyota 4AG from an early celica or BMW 3 series?, You'll pay about 2-3 hundred for an engine and box,get the rad and prop as well and bung it all in.
Matt
If you just want a little fun car, stick with the original engine, and tune it as and when you can I reckon (insurance I imagine being the limiting factor). While I can see the attraction of a more modern engine, I can't see much gain from sticking an A-series. Plus much more power and you will be chasing weak links around and transmition/suspension/brakes.
Maybe start with manifold, air filter and electronic ignition. If the bottom end has been rebuilt, stick a decent head and cam on/in later. Don't know if it's worth going to bigger SU's with the 1300.
As I said, 105bhp from mine and it looks totally standard... big plus when it comes to resale.
Also makes it easier to stick in an overdrive 'box.
Have driven overdrive 'boxes in Spitfire and (converted) Midget and like the novelty over a 5 speed conversion.
Cheers, Phil
Maybe start with manifold, air filter and electronic ignition. If the bottom end has been rebuilt, stick a decent head and cam on/in later. Don't know if it's worth going to bigger SU's with the 1300.
As I said, 105bhp from mine and it looks totally standard... big plus when it comes to resale.
Also makes it easier to stick in an overdrive 'box.
Have driven overdrive 'boxes in Spitfire and (converted) Midget and like the novelty over a 5 speed conversion.
Cheers, Phil
The A+ block requires a few adaptations to fit Midget.
The Midget alternative is the K conversion with 5 speed box
www.mgcars.org.uk/frontline/k-series.htm
Paul
The Midget alternative is the K conversion with 5 speed box
www.mgcars.org.uk/frontline/k-series.htm
Paul
350matt said:
I've been down the tuned Spitfire route,fun while it lasted - car that is - crash bing bang etc
Probably the most cost effective solution (and should be easy as there's not much in the way on the chassis side)
Would be to bin the Leyland / rover / Triumph rubbish and find a more modern alloy 4 cylinder with a 5 speed box on the back such as a Toyota 4AG from an early celica or BMW 3 series?, You'll pay about 2-3 hundred for an engine and box,get the rad and prop as well and bung it all in.
Matt
cheers i'm liking the sound of that cheap and effective, this spit will have longer legs soon no problems
I had a '69 Mk. 3 Spit with a '74 1500 engne in. It had to use an odd clutch as it needed the diameter of the 1500 flywheel and the splines of the Mk.3 'box.
It retained the overdrive but the limit switch didn't work so it was possible, if you caned it, to get O/D 2nd, effectively a 7-speed box...
Have to say I agree that a modern high-power lump may be more than the chassis could handle; go for a modest all-alloy unit that will make up for the power deficiency wih lighter weight.
... but I can't think of one at the moment
...maybe a Fiat twin cam?
Ian
It retained the overdrive but the limit switch didn't work so it was possible, if you caned it, to get O/D 2nd, effectively a 7-speed box...
Have to say I agree that a modern high-power lump may be more than the chassis could handle; go for a modest all-alloy unit that will make up for the power deficiency wih lighter weight.
... but I can't think of one at the moment
...maybe a Fiat twin cam?
Ian
Nice easy solution would be a triumph straght 6 engine and new bonnet (needs a bulge in it as the engine is about a foot longer) it's a straigth swop
I can get hold of the engine and bonnet for you if you're interested (obviously uprated brakes would be nice too etc drop me a PM if you want)
I can get hold of the engine and bonnet for you if you're interested (obviously uprated brakes would be nice too etc drop me a PM if you want)
I've got a spitfire too (1972 MkIV), unless you do the rounds on the complete brakes, suspension and drive-train package by uprating and tuning it all, the spitfire won't really get the best from a bigger engine. However the layout of the chassis and bonnet mean that if you do want to try something you have a nice open area to work in!
Here's another solution with a toyota engine
http://britishv8.org/swaps/spittoy.htm
(same website as posted above)
Generally the old triumph engines are simple and relatively effective for what they are and for their age but they are far outclassed with respect to power/weight, power/capacity and power/fuel-consumption ratios by newer engines.
If you want to stick with the old engines then there are plenty of options for tuning up the original triumph engine, heads, camshafts, roller-rockers, lightened fly wheels etc etc (try RimmerBrothers www.rimmerbros.co.uk/ or Moss-Europe www.moss-europe.co.uk/MossUK/ for plenty of options.) Can't see the A-series pulling many punches over the engine you already have. Both are old, both have big markets for tuning, both are outclassed by modern metal!
I've just rebuilt my triumph 1500 engine with a fast road camshaft and richer carbs, sports exhaust etc etc. Once you start you can't stop trying to drain the last milli-horsepower from the old lump! If I could put a neat, new, light, modern engine in then I would but I want someone to tell me a tried and tested route!! And want to by-pass the hassle factor.
Maybe when I have more £$!!
>> Edited by david_j on Tuesday 22 June 15:54
Here's another solution with a toyota engine
http://britishv8.org/swaps/spittoy.htm
(same website as posted above)
Generally the old triumph engines are simple and relatively effective for what they are and for their age but they are far outclassed with respect to power/weight, power/capacity and power/fuel-consumption ratios by newer engines.
If you want to stick with the old engines then there are plenty of options for tuning up the original triumph engine, heads, camshafts, roller-rockers, lightened fly wheels etc etc (try RimmerBrothers www.rimmerbros.co.uk/ or Moss-Europe www.moss-europe.co.uk/MossUK/ for plenty of options.) Can't see the A-series pulling many punches over the engine you already have. Both are old, both have big markets for tuning, both are outclassed by modern metal!
I've just rebuilt my triumph 1500 engine with a fast road camshaft and richer carbs, sports exhaust etc etc. Once you start you can't stop trying to drain the last milli-horsepower from the old lump! If I could put a neat, new, light, modern engine in then I would but I want someone to tell me a tried and tested route!! And want to by-pass the hassle factor.
Maybe when I have more £$!!
>> Edited by david_j on Tuesday 22 June 15:54
IIRC there is some problem with mixing A and A+ blocks and heads, I forget exactly what but I think one of them has an extra head stud or something.
The Fiat twin-cam engine is a popular swap into Morris Minors. Being OHC it is a taller engine, which is no problem for the Moggy but might be awkward in a Spit.
The Fiat twin-cam engine is a popular swap into Morris Minors. Being OHC it is a taller engine, which is no problem for the Moggy but might be awkward in a Spit.
As mgbv8 says a K series in midgets is fairly popular, i can't imagine it's that different for a Spit.
Im currently reassembling my 1500 midget, ive kept the original engine after deciding that to do the k series conversion was unjustifiably expensive. Still, close ratio box and and engine that sounds similar in spec to what filmidget must have it should at least be entertaining. Its starting to look dangerously like a car again....
Im currently reassembling my 1500 midget, ive kept the original engine after deciding that to do the k series conversion was unjustifiably expensive. Still, close ratio box and and engine that sounds similar in spec to what filmidget must have it should at least be entertaining. Its starting to look dangerously like a car again....
The 1600 Toyota 4AGE has been fitted to a few spits. The early Celica 5 speed box mates up to it, and it can produce some very interesting power figures if tuned.
The 1500 Triumph engine OTOH is one of my all time least favorite engines. Overstessed, under balanced and certainly underpowered in standard form.
The 1500 Triumph engine OTOH is one of my all time least favorite engines. Overstessed, under balanced and certainly underpowered in standard form.
Mr2Mike said:
The 1500 Triumph engine OTOH is one of my all time least favorite engines. Overstessed, under balanced and certainly underpowered in standard form.
Not a great engine, but carefully built and fettled does the job pretty adequately. The 1300 is meant to be a bit sweeter?
Neither is any match for a modern 16v twin cam, but then as has been pointed out, neither is the standard Spitfire chassis
I imagine that, even given the good access of the Spitfire, fitting a modern ECU-powered injection engine isn't going to be a five minute job. It's gonna cost more than a few hundred as well.
Cheers, Phil
i looked into putting a k-series intonthe midget in a serious way, but do to it properly would have cost between 2.5k (using mainly reconded s/h parts)-4k (using new parts but recon engine). I can't imagine its that much different for a Spit engine swap. you pays yer money......
I'm certain it could be bodged (badley) for a lot less, but i didn't fancy that route. Also, I don't know what differences there are between the diffs used by the spits and midgets but wildly increased power outputs are going to start breakign things like that on a regular basis, i know they can (and do) on midgets.
I'm certain it could be bodged (badley) for a lot less, but i didn't fancy that route. Also, I don't know what differences there are between the diffs used by the spits and midgets but wildly increased power outputs are going to start breakign things like that on a regular basis, i know they can (and do) on midgets.
For pitys sake I didn't say go full injection! I'm talking about spending your triumphtune budget on a 2nd hand early 90's drivetrain ie a carb fed BMW 316 + box is certainly not going to cost more than few hundred and will have around 90-100Bhp and most scrappys will exchange the engine if its goes pop straight away.
Stop picking holes, I just wish someone had took me aside in my spitfire tuning days and pointed this out.
Jeezus
Matt
Stop picking holes, I just wish someone had took me aside in my spitfire tuning days and pointed this out.
Jeezus
Matt
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