Is a Zonda really worth it?
Discussion
As above really.
I toyed with the idea of putting an order in for a Huayra after going to the launch party. I love the Pagani attention to detail and the car was stunning in the flesh. Once I had returned, I got some input from friends who were of the general opinion that the money would be better spent on a Zonda than the new car.
I always resisted taking the plunge with early Zondas. They seemed too expensive for an unknown company in the very early days, even though I loved the car. I had an opportunity to buy an F years ago for £450K. It wasn't the best example but now the price of an S of any description seems to be £500K + and an F is anything north of £800k.
At the risk of being accused of starting another "what will it be worth in 10 years" thread, I'm interested in what people think.
Put it this way, if the car was the same price as it was 5 years ago, I would already have one. Is the Zonda really going to be in the same league as a Mclaren F1 in years to come? Everyone who has ever tried to sell me one, tells me that this is a car that will be worth £2M one day but it's hardly an objective opinion. The hardest thing for me to overcome is the fact that it's twice the price that it was new.
I would also have to sell a car or 3 to justify this purchase and I'm not sure if it's worth it. I asked the same question on here about the Huayra and I decided not to proceed based on the fact that it meant chopping in 2 Lambos and flipping my Mclaren when it arrives; but I still love the car and I'm unsure about the future value of either Pagani. Is one Hyper car worth more than the choice of 3 super cars.
I never ever consider the future value of a car when I buy it. I buy for pleasure and never investment. Cars are generally a bad place to put money and I've always kept investments separate from leisure.
If I were to buy a Zonda or indeed a Huayra, resale/future values would be high on my priority list where they haven't been before.
No one specific question really, just opening the subject up for conversation.
I toyed with the idea of putting an order in for a Huayra after going to the launch party. I love the Pagani attention to detail and the car was stunning in the flesh. Once I had returned, I got some input from friends who were of the general opinion that the money would be better spent on a Zonda than the new car.
I always resisted taking the plunge with early Zondas. They seemed too expensive for an unknown company in the very early days, even though I loved the car. I had an opportunity to buy an F years ago for £450K. It wasn't the best example but now the price of an S of any description seems to be £500K + and an F is anything north of £800k.
At the risk of being accused of starting another "what will it be worth in 10 years" thread, I'm interested in what people think.
Put it this way, if the car was the same price as it was 5 years ago, I would already have one. Is the Zonda really going to be in the same league as a Mclaren F1 in years to come? Everyone who has ever tried to sell me one, tells me that this is a car that will be worth £2M one day but it's hardly an objective opinion. The hardest thing for me to overcome is the fact that it's twice the price that it was new.
I would also have to sell a car or 3 to justify this purchase and I'm not sure if it's worth it. I asked the same question on here about the Huayra and I decided not to proceed based on the fact that it meant chopping in 2 Lambos and flipping my Mclaren when it arrives; but I still love the car and I'm unsure about the future value of either Pagani. Is one Hyper car worth more than the choice of 3 super cars.
I never ever consider the future value of a car when I buy it. I buy for pleasure and never investment. Cars are generally a bad place to put money and I've always kept investments separate from leisure.
If I were to buy a Zonda or indeed a Huayra, resale/future values would be high on my priority list where they haven't been before.
No one specific question really, just opening the subject up for conversation.
Edited by Lambo FirstBlood on Sunday 1st May 00:19
Hmmmmm
Yes they will keep going up steadily due to primarily them ticking 2 boxes first they are a fabulous thing to behold and drive and 2 low production numbers always seals the deal similarly Enzos IMHO
However the question is should i make sacrifices to buy one at the cost of others in the selected stable ?
Its a very personal choice obviously but will you miss the variety will you open the doors and think oh crap my lambos have gone i think thats highly probable.
And given the Mclaren is probably as ,if not more capable than the Pagani is the experience going to live upto the expectation?
I would suggest driving one back to back with the LP or the Mclaren but who knows that could make the craving worse
Whatever you do im sure you will have great enjoyment
Regards
T
Yes they will keep going up steadily due to primarily them ticking 2 boxes first they are a fabulous thing to behold and drive and 2 low production numbers always seals the deal similarly Enzos IMHO
However the question is should i make sacrifices to buy one at the cost of others in the selected stable ?
Its a very personal choice obviously but will you miss the variety will you open the doors and think oh crap my lambos have gone i think thats highly probable.
And given the Mclaren is probably as ,if not more capable than the Pagani is the experience going to live upto the expectation?
I would suggest driving one back to back with the LP or the Mclaren but who knows that could make the craving worse
Whatever you do im sure you will have great enjoyment
Regards
T
It is a very hard question to answer reliably not being the person financing such a large acquisition but here are my thoughts..
As mentioned in previous threads I used to do a lot of photography for Group 20 including their Zonda. I did a lot of miles in it as a passenger as well as in the F430, Gallardo. DB9, V8V, 911 Turbo and a Murcielago on a road trip. In my opinion none of the cars even came close to the Zonda as a passenger. It was an experience in itself. The looks, the attention to detail of the interior, the engine and pretty much everything else about it. If I had the money I would be on the list for a Huayra for sure.
I am not sure performance is too much of a factor against the F1 for me. I probably am only capable of using 50% of my cars performance as I am not a race instructor! I don't know about your background but how much of the Zonda's performance would you actually use?
If the car was going to worth £2m then why isn't the dealer keeping it as an investment themselves? Why doesn't a super rich car collector buy everyone available to make them even less infrequently appear on the market. It would sure beat most investments!
As mentioned in previous threads I used to do a lot of photography for Group 20 including their Zonda. I did a lot of miles in it as a passenger as well as in the F430, Gallardo. DB9, V8V, 911 Turbo and a Murcielago on a road trip. In my opinion none of the cars even came close to the Zonda as a passenger. It was an experience in itself. The looks, the attention to detail of the interior, the engine and pretty much everything else about it. If I had the money I would be on the list for a Huayra for sure.
I am not sure performance is too much of a factor against the F1 for me. I probably am only capable of using 50% of my cars performance as I am not a race instructor! I don't know about your background but how much of the Zonda's performance would you actually use?
If the car was going to worth £2m then why isn't the dealer keeping it as an investment themselves? Why doesn't a super rich car collector buy everyone available to make them even less infrequently appear on the market. It would sure beat most investments!
Edited by wineman02 on Sunday 1st May 10:17
The low production numbers (and casualty rate!) will always mean that Pagani's are a good investment. I bought an S for under £200k in 2005. It sold as an ex-hire car with 20,000 km for north of £300k a few years later(or so I believe).
They're incredible to drive, tough and reliable, and there'll never be enough to go round. As good a bet as an investment as you'll get with a modern car I reckon, and a fabulous car to own.
They're incredible to drive, tough and reliable, and there'll never be enough to go round. As good a bet as an investment as you'll get with a modern car I reckon, and a fabulous car to own.
If you buy a Zonda, you'll be chuffed to bits - it's a hyper car after all. I doubt you'll be upset by it afterwards (unless maintenance becomes a joke).
Afterwards, if you realise it's not the car for you then due to a severe lack of them I would be sure someone at some stage would buy it back off you (maybe even cash going your way, who knows). That'll then put you back into a position whereby you can buy back any 'normal' supercar(s) again and you can say you were a Zonda owner in your life (and that's just cool).
I guess at this level you should (sort of) have to look at them like houses. You can buy one huge house or three smaller yet still impressive one's; it's personal choice.
I can't see Zonda prices coming down tbh - the volume is going down on an already limited market (crashes, some become car collections lifers, etc). They were always extremely good cars everyone desired and it has the added bonus of being THE car that started the company by Mr Pagani himself.
I say go for it. You can always buy a lambo or Mclaren (even if you have to wait a bit) - you can't do that with a Zonda.
Afterwards, if you realise it's not the car for you then due to a severe lack of them I would be sure someone at some stage would buy it back off you (maybe even cash going your way, who knows). That'll then put you back into a position whereby you can buy back any 'normal' supercar(s) again and you can say you were a Zonda owner in your life (and that's just cool).
I guess at this level you should (sort of) have to look at them like houses. You can buy one huge house or three smaller yet still impressive one's; it's personal choice.
I can't see Zonda prices coming down tbh - the volume is going down on an already limited market (crashes, some become car collections lifers, etc). They were always extremely good cars everyone desired and it has the added bonus of being THE car that started the company by Mr Pagani himself.
I say go for it. You can always buy a lambo or Mclaren (even if you have to wait a bit) - you can't do that with a Zonda.
This a very difficult call. I cannot see Zonda's standing still, in terms of value. They'll either skyrocket or they'll fall away. Personally I still think as you start edging towards F1 money you're on a much better bet with that car, given the history of the firm and provenance of that particular vehichle. The issue with the Zonda is what comes next? both from Pagani themselves and others (Enzo/Carrera GT replacements). That makes me uncomfortable. It's a great car, but it's low odds that Pagani otains the provenance of the likes of MC or Ferrari. If the new cars are better, residuals for Zonda's will drift lower. If the buying power of the super rich get's curtailed (admittedly yet to happen - example high-end London property), these cars will slip back. However, one thing in these car's favour is the clamour for smaller engines which, I'd guess, will definately make the V12's more desireable.
As I breifly described in the email I think the prices will remain static for a while, but in the long term they will go up. A lot of cars are available, but I think a lot of these are SOR. The owners want a bit more than the market is perhaps worth (due to the rapid price increase of the earlier cars) and so they won't let them go for much under the asking price. Part of the "problem" for the cars being released cheaply is that most owners have enough personal wealth they don't need to sell them to get other cars/ houses etc (like might happen with "cheaper" supercars). However in the long term there is an entire generation wanting a Zonda, and when they have the money they will want to buy them, and so this I think will secure the price long term.
There is only around 120 made (I think it's 118 at the moment, with potentially a Tricolore Roadster and a few more special editions to come), therefore there will be a demand for them. The prediction for the Huayra is quite a lot more should be made, and therefore there will not be quite as much demand outweighing supply.
Although a few have been crashed these have almost always been repaired, so there's not actually been much reduction in the number of cars (I think 2 have been permenantly written off from memory, the rest were rebuilt, but I might be wrong).
In some ways an original earlier car might be intersting in the long term, as many have been upgraded with F/ Cinque parts. For example of the 7 original C12 cars then only 1 exists in the original form I think (a yellow one). A well known supercar collector/ dealer has his own personal car that he doesn't want to upgrade. It's also the only car genuinely road legal in the US, so it is potentially a very interesting car in the future - which is presumably why he doesn't sell it now (apart from loving Zondas)!
There is only around 120 made (I think it's 118 at the moment, with potentially a Tricolore Roadster and a few more special editions to come), therefore there will be a demand for them. The prediction for the Huayra is quite a lot more should be made, and therefore there will not be quite as much demand outweighing supply.
Although a few have been crashed these have almost always been repaired, so there's not actually been much reduction in the number of cars (I think 2 have been permenantly written off from memory, the rest were rebuilt, but I might be wrong).
In some ways an original earlier car might be intersting in the long term, as many have been upgraded with F/ Cinque parts. For example of the 7 original C12 cars then only 1 exists in the original form I think (a yellow one). A well known supercar collector/ dealer has his own personal car that he doesn't want to upgrade. It's also the only car genuinely road legal in the US, so it is potentially a very interesting car in the future - which is presumably why he doesn't sell it now (apart from loving Zondas)!
Few exclusive vids which I hope you'll find useful
http://www.fgear.tv/index.php?option=com_content&a...
http://www.fgear.tv/index.php?option=com_content&a...
I like your attitude. Judging by your post i think you have answered your own question really. If you really really wanted a zonda you would have had one. They are fantastic cars, beautiful and fast but out of the choice of 3 supercars or a zonda, i would take the 3 everyday, just for that bit of variety.
I've not driven many 'hypercars' (i hate that phrase, sorry), but many supercars up to and in the the LP640 level.
But I was lucky enough to drive Group20's F Roadster for a short drive, and it absolutely, completely, totally blew my senses out the window. I coveted it, wanted it, wanted to mate with it, everything.
If you can, you should. No, you must. In my eyes the Huayra is a Zonda made again to meet modern regulations and to be sold in the US.
Hence it won't be as sharp, won't be as visceral, won't be as good.
How many Zonda owners have ordered a Huayra? That should tell you something...
But I was lucky enough to drive Group20's F Roadster for a short drive, and it absolutely, completely, totally blew my senses out the window. I coveted it, wanted it, wanted to mate with it, everything.
If you can, you should. No, you must. In my eyes the Huayra is a Zonda made again to meet modern regulations and to be sold in the US.
Hence it won't be as sharp, won't be as visceral, won't be as good.
How many Zonda owners have ordered a Huayra? That should tell you something...
TurboTerrific9 said:
This a very difficult call. I cannot see Zonda's standing still, in terms of value. They'll either skyrocket or they'll fall away. Personally I still think as you start edging towards F1 money you're on a much better bet with that car, given the history of the firm and provenance of that particular vehichle. The issue with the Zonda is what comes next? both from Pagani themselves and others (Enzo/Carrera GT replacements). That makes me uncomfortable. It's a great car, but it's low odds that Pagani otains the provenance of the likes of MC or Ferrari. If the new cars are better, residuals for Zonda's will drift lower. If the buying power of the super rich get's curtailed (admittedly yet to happen - example high-end London property), these cars will slip back. However, one thing in these car's favour is the clamour for smaller engines which, I'd guess, will definately make the V12's more desireable.
Let me add my two pence worth. The Zonda is probably the last and the greatest of its type, i.e., A large capacity high revving V12 attached to a manual gearbox (in the C, S and F) covered in a pornographic carbon body the likes of which we are unlikely to see every again. Legislation will see to that. Over the last 11 years just over 130 have been built including one offs and the R. I suspect a Zonda would rank in large number of people’s top five of cars to own if they could.
Pagani has done what a huge number of people have tried to do and failed, i.e. He has built a successful supercar company that started out with the aim of taking on the big boys but now does not even bother to compete with Lamborghini or Ferrari. Its future seesm to be in good shape.
What Pagani does next I feel will not have much effect on Zonda values. The Huayra is a very different car and if things go to plan will be built in much larger numbers. Although it has not met with the almost universal approval that the Zonda did let’s not forget that they already have over 50 orders in the bag even before the first customer car has been delivered. So the Zonda will always be the rarer beast.
As for current values, I personally think they are too high and have had discussions to that effect with a couple of dealers. If you check back over the last years sales records you would probably come to the same conclusion.
As for future values I would expect prices to be stable for a year or so then start to creep up again as people realise how important the Zonda really is in the great scheme of things. Also the fact that these cars are very tough, easy to work on and have an engine unlikely to need any major work for at least 100k miles makes them an easy car to live with.
LamboFirstBlood, if you are going to see the car I suspect you are, then I think you will be impressed. I have been to see it twice and it is probably the best example available at this time apart from the fact that I think it is priced £100k to high at the moment.
Streetrod said:
Let me add my two pence worth. The Zonda is probably the last and the greatest of its type, i.e., A large capacity high revving V12 attached to a manual gearbox (in the C, S and F) covered in a pornographic carbon body the likes of which we are unlikely to see every again. Legislation will see to that.
Over the last 11 years just over 130 have been built including one offs and the R. I suspect a Zonda would rank in large number of people’s top five of cars to own if they could.
Pagani has done what a huge number of people have tried to do and failed, i.e. He has built a successful supercar company that started out with the aim of taking on the big boys but now does not even bother to compete with Lamborghini or Ferrari. Its future seesm to be in good shape.
What Pagani does next I feel will not have much effect on Zonda values. The Huayra is a very different car and if things go to plan will be built in much larger numbers. Although it has not met with the almost universal approval that the Zonda did let’s not forget that they already have over 50 orders in the bag even before the first customer car has been delivered. So the Zonda will always be the rarer beast.
As for current values, I personally think they are too high and have had discussions to that effect with a couple of dealers. If you check back over the last years sales records you would probably come to the same conclusion.
As for future values I would expect prices to be stable for a year or so then start to creep up again as people realise how important the Zonda really is in the great scheme of things. Also the fact that these cars are very tough, easy to work on and have an engine unlikely to need any major work for at least 100k miles makes them an easy car to live with.
LamboFirstBlood, if you are going to see the car I suspect you are, then I think you will be impressed. I have been to see it twice and it is probably the best example available at this time apart from the fact that I think it is priced £100k to high at the moment.
Thanks Street rod, I know you're a big Pagani fan from previous posts - I remember having some dialogue about the Huayra preview. I very nearly gave them a deposit on the night, I loved it so much!Over the last 11 years just over 130 have been built including one offs and the R. I suspect a Zonda would rank in large number of people’s top five of cars to own if they could.
Pagani has done what a huge number of people have tried to do and failed, i.e. He has built a successful supercar company that started out with the aim of taking on the big boys but now does not even bother to compete with Lamborghini or Ferrari. Its future seesm to be in good shape.
What Pagani does next I feel will not have much effect on Zonda values. The Huayra is a very different car and if things go to plan will be built in much larger numbers. Although it has not met with the almost universal approval that the Zonda did let’s not forget that they already have over 50 orders in the bag even before the first customer car has been delivered. So the Zonda will always be the rarer beast.
As for current values, I personally think they are too high and have had discussions to that effect with a couple of dealers. If you check back over the last years sales records you would probably come to the same conclusion.
As for future values I would expect prices to be stable for a year or so then start to creep up again as people realise how important the Zonda really is in the great scheme of things. Also the fact that these cars are very tough, easy to work on and have an engine unlikely to need any major work for at least 100k miles makes them an easy car to live with.
LamboFirstBlood, if you are going to see the car I suspect you are, then I think you will be impressed. I have been to see it twice and it is probably the best example available at this time apart from the fact that I think it is priced £100k to high at the moment.
The thing I keep coming back to is this - have I missed the opportunity to buy a Zonda for the right money? It may sound wrong to some people. I am a true petrol head but I have worked very hard for what I have and this car is right at the very top of what I can afford. Would my life change if it was worth £200K in 3 years, no. Would I be majorly pissed off -yes.
I'm going to see the car tomorrow for a closer look. I'll let you guys know what I think.
I think most of the Zondas on sale have been SOR guys just testing the market. There was as one agreed at £850K from Bob Forstner's which the buyer pulled out of. Don't know why, but I think it needs to be under £800K for me to take the plunge.
Of course, this might all change when I sit in it tomorrow.
Watch this space.
Ultimately, as has been said, it is not very wise to buy a car as an investment. You buy it for the experience. In my opinion, even seeing a Zonda is an experience in itself.
My personal choice, if I could afford it would be an original S with no modifications
If you have the means, I am sure it would be a car you would not regret owning. I guess it might be more of an investment of the heart rather than mind?
My personal choice, if I could afford it would be an original S with no modifications
If you have the means, I am sure it would be a car you would not regret owning. I guess it might be more of an investment of the heart rather than mind?
Agree with the above posts. Personally short of a lotto win i will never
be as fortunate as yourself to have such a choice but i have sat in an F
and had chats with owners and given the above regarding rarity etc
then any of Pagani's motors seem like a good shout and fabulous things
to behold if you are in a position to buy one do it do it NOW.
I seriously doubt you will regret it.
be as fortunate as yourself to have such a choice but i have sat in an F
and had chats with owners and given the above regarding rarity etc
then any of Pagani's motors seem like a good shout and fabulous things
to behold if you are in a position to buy one do it do it NOW.
I seriously doubt you will regret it.
Lambo FirstBlood said:
The thing I keep coming back to is this - have I missed the opportunity to buy a Zonda for the right money?
I think so; the days when you could get an F for £500k are I think now long gone. The cars are just too good, too rare and too desirable to drop by any significant amountWhat will have a major effect on Zonda prices will be when they become legible under classic status to be imported into America. The McLaren F1 saw a huge dip in values a few years after they were produced. But once they started becoming legible for US import the market took off. Peloton on this site would be able to give you more info on this.
The current two largest markets for Zonda's are the Far East and England, so demand should stay high. Some British cars have already gone to the Far East so making the stock available here even smaller. If you are seeing the car at Romans be aware it is not currently registered in the UK but is in process. Also as it has only done just over 1000 miles in 3 years it will need a service, but that should only be minor.
Mean while I am still trying to sell the kids to raise the cash I need
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff