Lambo Espada values...
Discussion
If that has had a recently retrimmed interior and has an older restoration on it, it looks like the one was up for sale a couple of years ago for around £15k to £20k iirc. Not sure how much work/commissioning it required. Espada prices are definitely on the way up over the last 3 years or so.
edited to add.. actually, the red one as I've mentioned above had a white/cream retrimmed interior I think.
edited to add.. actually, the red one as I've mentioned above had a white/cream retrimmed interior I think.
Edited by Nuisance_Value on Thursday 25th June 16:10
It's certainly the case that the values of the old Lamborghinis are increasing, despite the downturns in (most) values elsewhere and whatever certain wreckers may still think.
On the other hand, a basket case Espada/Jarama/Urraco/'owt needing rather more than a drop of fresh oil and a bit of a polish should still be possible to find for under £10k, unless the vendor feels that rotten, spider-filled barn filler is worth more...
Let's just say that there are a number of older Lamborghinis within LCUK that have been recovered from almost-parts-value-only oblivion to become cars that are so good they make the eye's water and the wallet wilt... until they are started and then it's all quite clear and quite obvious where the big value really is:
Late Series I / early Series II, was a poor, battered old thing a few years ago... not for sale right now, but if it was, it would be £55k if you're lucky...
image by Rally Rider
On the other hand, a basket case Espada/Jarama/Urraco/'owt needing rather more than a drop of fresh oil and a bit of a polish should still be possible to find for under £10k, unless the vendor feels that rotten, spider-filled barn filler is worth more...
Let's just say that there are a number of older Lamborghinis within LCUK that have been recovered from almost-parts-value-only oblivion to become cars that are so good they make the eye's water and the wallet wilt... until they are started and then it's all quite clear and quite obvious where the big value really is:
Late Series I / early Series II, was a poor, battered old thing a few years ago... not for sale right now, but if it was, it would be £55k if you're lucky...
image by Rally Rider
They seem to take eons to sell - I bid on one last year and the car finally sold very recently and I bet he took what I offered for it.
As David says, the issue with these cars is that they cost just as much as a Countach to maintain and restore, yet are not worth the same money, nor are as easy to sell.
As David says, the issue with these cars is that they cost just as much as a Countach to maintain and restore, yet are not worth the same money, nor are as easy to sell.
rubystone said:
They seem to take eons to sell - I bid on one last year and the car finally sold very recently and I bet he took what I offered for it.
As David says, the issue with these cars is that they cost just as much as a Countach to maintain and restore, yet are not worth the same money, nor are as easy to sell.
Having both cars can I crrect this! As David says, the issue with these cars is that they cost just as much as a Countach to maintain and restore, yet are not worth the same money, nor are as easy to sell.
The Espada has at least twice as much body work as a countach and as many cars tend to rust , which in general countachs dont they will cost at least twice as much to restore the body!
They have three times the amount of interior trim as a countach and therefore a lot more to restore
They had the same engine gearbox etc as the earlier countachs ie the basic 4.0L V12 and manual box and so cost the neary the same to rebuild, but the engine is easier to get out
Having spent a vast fortune on my Espada and an awful lot of money on my countach I would give a ball park guide as:
Engine rebuild £15000
Gearbox Rebuild ( basic with few components) £3000
Body restoration with limited rust and all trim still available including respray £20000
Interior retrim with all parts still in place ie all leather and carpets etc £7500
Supension Brakes diff exhausts Budget £6000
If it helps understand the overall costs. The Car Portmans had in bits back in 1993 with a resored shell and engine cost £70000 to put back on the road
I absolutley agree that comparativley there is no argument for restoring an Espada comapred to a Countach on a cost/return basis.
Nowadays I think there is only about 30+ Espadas left in the UK which are on the road. Internationaly I would doubt if there are more than 300 still running. Ie about 25% of original production. Countachs are about 80% although I would stand to be corrrected on these figures. I think that the UK used to take about 10% of lambo production until mid 90's. My recolection is that Jason at Eurospares guessed they had broken about 20 in his time there.
If anyone needs any help or advice on Espadas happy to pvt.
Paul
Stunningly great posts gentlemen. Disparate opinions but of course that's what makes PH great. The Blue Espada that was on the market for ages was one of those that kept me awake at night!
So....If I could find a truly great example for £45K then I'm probably on a one-way street to ownership.
What planet am I on?
So....If I could find a truly great example for £45K then I'm probably on a one-way street to ownership.
What planet am I on?
Stablelad said:
The Blue Espada that was on the market for ages was one of those that kept me awake at night!
That was the car I made an offer for....it spiralled down from £55k to £33k and I don't know what it sold for in the end. He accepted my ofer of £20k for it and then backed out.... rubystone said:
Stablelad said:
The Blue Espada that was on the market for ages was one of those that kept me awake at night!
That was the car I made an offer for....it spiralled down from £55k to £33k and I don't know what it sold for in the end. He accepted my ofer of £20k for it and then backed out.... 
It would be fair to say that, should you open a thread here or anywhere with the words, "I have forty five thousand of those English pounds available for a pristine Espada" you'd be buried (a bit) with offers of great cars...
PaulQV is correct in the statement that on average 10% of all Lamborghinis built camen to the UK prior to 2000 which sounds a big percentage for one country but was rarely more than 40 cars in a year. For comparison, the Gallardo has long outstripped the sum total of ALL Lamborghinis built since 1963 and is, I think, approaching a total build number of 9,000 cars.
These figures should be compared to the 'amounts' of almost any other cars built, by almost any manufacturer which make even 9,000 cars built in over six years sound a tiny amount...
This Espada III went for a sweet song last year and is exceptionally clean and almost, almost as useable a car as you could ever want. And black. Black is good. cue Darth Vader theme music!
pictured on the forecourt of Chateau Ar'Gaffe earlier in 2009
PaulQV is correct in the statement that on average 10% of all Lamborghinis built camen to the UK prior to 2000 which sounds a big percentage for one country but was rarely more than 40 cars in a year. For comparison, the Gallardo has long outstripped the sum total of ALL Lamborghinis built since 1963 and is, I think, approaching a total build number of 9,000 cars.
These figures should be compared to the 'amounts' of almost any other cars built, by almost any manufacturer which make even 9,000 cars built in over six years sound a tiny amount...
This Espada III went for a sweet song last year and is exceptionally clean and almost, almost as useable a car as you could ever want. And black. Black is good. cue Darth Vader theme music!
pictured on the forecourt of Chateau Ar'Gaffe earlier in 2009
The prices of the cars relects the condition in so far as I have seen over the past few years. I know a LHD 'project' was sold in Glasgow late last year for £9000 and that car needed everything doing to it! AS I siad earleir there is a vast difference between a running car and one needing to be restored.
My guess is for a properly resotred car engine rebuild about £35000+. For the best and there are only a handfull in that catagorey, would say £45000. From experience thats a return of about -50%!!! Sob.
Even on a running car the engines need a rebuid after approx 40,000 miles
The biggest problem is rust. The bodies were not well rust proofed to begin with and hated our climate! Ther are numerou rust traps, eg roof vents, cills floor and s full restoration is not cost effective. Colin Clarke has a body shell sitting outside his workshop if anyone is keen,, but yourprblem then is finding the trim!! Jacques at Masetatti source in the USA breaks a lot of the US cars whic seem to go forabout $20000+ to about $50000 in recent years.
The main point is, that there are so few of these cars about that it is difficult to price them as by now you are really talking on an individual price depending on what you are buying. 1270 approx built between 1968-78 and about 300 left wordwide!
My guess is for a properly resotred car engine rebuild about £35000+. For the best and there are only a handfull in that catagorey, would say £45000. From experience thats a return of about -50%!!! Sob.
Even on a running car the engines need a rebuid after approx 40,000 miles
The biggest problem is rust. The bodies were not well rust proofed to begin with and hated our climate! Ther are numerou rust traps, eg roof vents, cills floor and s full restoration is not cost effective. Colin Clarke has a body shell sitting outside his workshop if anyone is keen,, but yourprblem then is finding the trim!! Jacques at Masetatti source in the USA breaks a lot of the US cars whic seem to go forabout $20000+ to about $50000 in recent years.
The main point is, that there are so few of these cars about that it is difficult to price them as by now you are really talking on an individual price depending on what you are buying. 1270 approx built between 1968-78 and about 300 left wordwide!
Stablelad
As PaulQV will confirm, perhaps the best 'forum' for discussion and information about older Lamborghinis is The Vintage Lamborghini Garage which, as its name implies is an American-based collective but a place frequented by some of the people from throughout the world (not just Amerikky) who have real and vast collective knowledge.
The VLG is a Yahoo group, is kept as mostly flame free and as clear of fektards as possible (unlike PistonHeads...) but is a little staid as a result... worth signing up for though with fully £$€0.00 joining fee as far as I know!
Also, you could take a look at the International Lamborghini Registry which has stacks of 'stuff' but is (quite rightly!) as yet an unfinished masterpiece. (One of the creators and the ongoing curator of the ILR is a chap called Glen Kohut who also founded the Canadian Lamborghini club recently... he might come to UKland one day, he owes me beer or maybe I owe him beer)
and whilst you're at it, there's a certain club in the UK that might be of interest... www.lamborghiniclub.co.uk
and have another Espada pic. This was taken at a 'town centre show' in Bracknell in 2000. This car is one of the two Espadæ owned by LCUK's (current) chairman who can be seen with the sunglasses answering daft questions from the public about the car, as y' have f't do:
As PaulQV will confirm, perhaps the best 'forum' for discussion and information about older Lamborghinis is The Vintage Lamborghini Garage which, as its name implies is an American-based collective but a place frequented by some of the people from throughout the world (not just Amerikky) who have real and vast collective knowledge.
The VLG is a Yahoo group, is kept as mostly flame free and as clear of fektards as possible (unlike PistonHeads...) but is a little staid as a result... worth signing up for though with fully £$€0.00 joining fee as far as I know!
Also, you could take a look at the International Lamborghini Registry which has stacks of 'stuff' but is (quite rightly!) as yet an unfinished masterpiece. (One of the creators and the ongoing curator of the ILR is a chap called Glen Kohut who also founded the Canadian Lamborghini club recently... he might come to UKland one day, he owes me beer or maybe I owe him beer)
and whilst you're at it, there's a certain club in the UK that might be of interest... www.lamborghiniclub.co.uk
and have another Espada pic. This was taken at a 'town centre show' in Bracknell in 2000. This car is one of the two Espadæ owned by LCUK's (current) chairman who can be seen with the sunglasses answering daft questions from the public about the car, as y' have f't do:
bertie said:
Lovely thing, but how Looooooooooooong is it??
Length 4,738 mm / 186.5 in - so only 15' 6.5" and not that long reallyWidth 1,860 mm / 73.4 in - barely 6' 2", so not that wide either
Height 1,185 mm / 46.6 in - but at less than 4' high it's waist high to the average chap which explains the apparent length!
Plus, it's a proper 4 seater car - ie: if you aren't driving an Espada, ask to sit in the back!
There is something comfortably perverse about sitting in such a pleasant, relaxed manner in the BACK of a Lamborghini!!
This is an early Series III with a very aromatic red interior and in a Mason's very shiny mirror black!:
... just a few minutes before I drove it for quite a distance; a truly excellent car.
also this lovely III, which is now very dark blue (used to be a light silvery green) and which I had helped to refit the rear side windows to last year and 'fed' curiously tactile gloppola into the seat leather whilst getting very sunburnt...
What me? The eleventh Baron XXVIII? Rubbing at dark leather in the hot sun? With my reputation? I should jolly well cocoa...
Edited by XXVIII on Friday 26th June 11:13
David is right ( I can't believe i am typing this) there are some excellent forums about and the vintage Lambo garage one is good.
I know I will be thrown out of the lambo club for this but there is also an excellent forum on Ferrari chat for lambos!! I realise that some lambo people can't bring themselves to type the words though!
Here is a link to a post I made about my espada and countach and can get an idea of the size of both from the pics
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Would be good if all espada owners on here could identify themselves and chassis number!!
Paul
xx
I know I will be thrown out of the lambo club for this but there is also an excellent forum on Ferrari chat for lambos!! I realise that some lambo people can't bring themselves to type the words though!
Here is a link to a post I made about my espada and countach and can get an idea of the size of both from the pics
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Would be good if all espada owners on here could identify themselves and chassis number!!
Paul
xx
Stablelad said:
Negotiation process aside, what did your gut tell you the true value of that one was. I always thought that 36-38K was fair. Deffo sleepers IMO
He was going to shake on £20k. He dropped the car to £38k and I am pretty sure sold it sub £30k.I do love them - but clearly they don't sell quickly and it's imperative you buy a good one. Terry Hoyle doesn't discriminate between an Espada rebuild and a Countach rebuild - the parts cost the same - if you can find them - he has an interesting problem with a Jota engine at the moment - you can't just pick up a cylinder head for one of those on ebay....
paulqv said:
Having both cars can I crrect this!
The Espada has at least twice as much body work as a countach and as many cars tend to rust , which in general countachs dont they will cost at least twice as much to restore the body!
They have three times the amount of interior trim as a countach and therefore a lot more to restore
They had the same engine gearbox etc as the earlier countachs ie the basic 4.0L V12 and manual box and so cost the neary the same to rebuild, but the engine is easier to get out
Having spent a vast fortune on my Espada and an awful lot of money on my countach I would give a ball park guide as:
Engine rebuild £15000
Gearbox Rebuild ( basic with few components) £3000
Body restoration with limited rust and all trim still available including respray £20000
Interior retrim with all parts still in place ie all leather and carpets etc £7500
Supension Brakes diff exhausts Budget £6000
If it helps understand the overall costs. The Car Portmans had in bits back in 1993 with a resored shell and engine cost £70000 to put back on the road
I absolutley agree that comparativley there is no argument for restoring an Espada comapred to a Countach on a cost/return basis.
Nowadays I think there is only about 30+ Espadas left in the UK which are on the road. Internationaly I would doubt if there are more than 300 still running. Ie about 25% of original production. Countachs are about 80% although I would stand to be corrrected on these figures. I think that the UK used to take about 10% of lambo production until mid 90's. My recolection is that Jason at Eurospares guessed they had broken about 20 in his time there.
If anyone needs any help or advice on Espadas happy to pvt.
Paul
Hello PaulThe Espada has at least twice as much body work as a countach and as many cars tend to rust , which in general countachs dont they will cost at least twice as much to restore the body!
They have three times the amount of interior trim as a countach and therefore a lot more to restore
They had the same engine gearbox etc as the earlier countachs ie the basic 4.0L V12 and manual box and so cost the neary the same to rebuild, but the engine is easier to get out
Having spent a vast fortune on my Espada and an awful lot of money on my countach I would give a ball park guide as:
Engine rebuild £15000
Gearbox Rebuild ( basic with few components) £3000
Body restoration with limited rust and all trim still available including respray £20000
Interior retrim with all parts still in place ie all leather and carpets etc £7500
Supension Brakes diff exhausts Budget £6000
If it helps understand the overall costs. The Car Portmans had in bits back in 1993 with a resored shell and engine cost £70000 to put back on the road
I absolutley agree that comparativley there is no argument for restoring an Espada comapred to a Countach on a cost/return basis.
Nowadays I think there is only about 30+ Espadas left in the UK which are on the road. Internationaly I would doubt if there are more than 300 still running. Ie about 25% of original production. Countachs are about 80% although I would stand to be corrrected on these figures. I think that the UK used to take about 10% of lambo production until mid 90's. My recolection is that Jason at Eurospares guessed they had broken about 20 in his time there.
If anyone needs any help or advice on Espadas happy to pvt.
Paul
Within this year Im going to start the rebuild of my 1974 Espada and would like to know where the best places for parts are.
Until now I found eurospares.co.uk and bullparts in the us. Are there other good places in europe?
Im from Switzerland so Europe would be better.
and do you know places where to rebuild the engine and the whole interieur?
The engine works fine but has 130000 on it now and I would like to do it.
Is there a way to bring the engine to a new level/better performance? Are there "sports" parts avail (Zyl. Liners, Pistons, Rods, Camshafts)?
Im a mechanic and would possibly consider to rebuild the engine myself depending on possibilities (My profession is to restore Classic cars).
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
Marcel
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