Gen II R8 V10 vs Gen II V10+
Discussion
Hello to Everyone,
Not sure if there are many current or past owners of either/both cars here but would really appreciate some feedback.
I am interested in the spyder specifically as never owned a convertible and have other coupe cars, yet to test drive either as lack of cars near me and season/weather makes it difficult at the moment at least.
My main question is how do the two compare, how significant are the benefits of having the + car, and I know this is a difficult one but is the + 'worth it'?
The premium seems to normally be around 13-16k approx comparing cars from same model year so its not nothing but not crazy either and would not deter me from buying a + also depends on availability, spec, etc etc.
From what I know with + you get:
CCM brakes
70bhp more
Carbon fibre exterior pack as standard, which not many non + cars have
Carbon fibre interior which again few non + cars have
20/25 kg lighter comparing +spyder with non + spyder (not a big difference on a heavy car?)
Is there anything I am missing?
70bhp is quite a lot extra as with a Turbo vs Turbo S, Vanquish vs S, or F type R vs SVR just as an example its usually 20-25 max more, but 70 I assume makes a difference. I believe the + car also has different/shorter gearing so is supposed to feel a lot more lively at lower RPM where it matters more, not just at top end where its less usable.
I know the 5.2 V10 engine is essentially detuned in the standard car and making 610 bhp vs 540 bhp is simply a matter of a remap, no mechanical mods at all. A place like Re Performance who are brilliant at what they do and know these cars inside out charge circa 1300 for (I think, from memory) the Velocity AP tune which actually gets the car to closer to 630 bhp. I have personally for some reason always been sceptical of mapping cars, maybe thats wrong of me- anyone mapped a standard V10 and have any experience of that?
Would love to hear people's thoughts on the two cars and if the + was notably, or significantly better or if on the contrary the standard V10 was all the car you want and need..
Not sure if there are many current or past owners of either/both cars here but would really appreciate some feedback.
I am interested in the spyder specifically as never owned a convertible and have other coupe cars, yet to test drive either as lack of cars near me and season/weather makes it difficult at the moment at least.
My main question is how do the two compare, how significant are the benefits of having the + car, and I know this is a difficult one but is the + 'worth it'?
The premium seems to normally be around 13-16k approx comparing cars from same model year so its not nothing but not crazy either and would not deter me from buying a + also depends on availability, spec, etc etc.
From what I know with + you get:
CCM brakes
70bhp more
Carbon fibre exterior pack as standard, which not many non + cars have
Carbon fibre interior which again few non + cars have
20/25 kg lighter comparing +spyder with non + spyder (not a big difference on a heavy car?)
Is there anything I am missing?
70bhp is quite a lot extra as with a Turbo vs Turbo S, Vanquish vs S, or F type R vs SVR just as an example its usually 20-25 max more, but 70 I assume makes a difference. I believe the + car also has different/shorter gearing so is supposed to feel a lot more lively at lower RPM where it matters more, not just at top end where its less usable.
I know the 5.2 V10 engine is essentially detuned in the standard car and making 610 bhp vs 540 bhp is simply a matter of a remap, no mechanical mods at all. A place like Re Performance who are brilliant at what they do and know these cars inside out charge circa 1300 for (I think, from memory) the Velocity AP tune which actually gets the car to closer to 630 bhp. I have personally for some reason always been sceptical of mapping cars, maybe thats wrong of me- anyone mapped a standard V10 and have any experience of that?
Would love to hear people's thoughts on the two cars and if the + was notably, or significantly better or if on the contrary the standard V10 was all the car you want and need..
I can't comment on spyders as I've got a 2018 V10+ Coupe, but personally I'd prefer oe 610bhp standard over a remapped car any day of the week regardless of who maps it. I'm not personally a fan of the softop roof look.
The interior with carbon is very nice as are all the external carbon extras the plus gets such as the splitter and rear diffuser etc. The various driving modes totally alter how the car feels, it will potter around or do violent snappy full throttle shifts.
The carbon ceramic brakes are almost too sharp, incredible braking effect. The 570s had a slightly better feel on the ceramics but you won't ever feel underbraked.
Overall I don't think you'll go far wrong in a v10, the engine/exhaust noise is sublime and 100mph comes up way too easy lol.
The interior with carbon is very nice as are all the external carbon extras the plus gets such as the splitter and rear diffuser etc. The various driving modes totally alter how the car feels, it will potter around or do violent snappy full throttle shifts.
The carbon ceramic brakes are almost too sharp, incredible braking effect. The 570s had a slightly better feel on the ceramics but you won't ever feel underbraked.
Overall I don't think you'll go far wrong in a v10, the engine/exhaust noise is sublime and 100mph comes up way too easy lol.
The answer possibly lies in the fact that there are very few Gen 2 V10 cars and a lot more Gen 2 V10+ because most preferred the plus.
It's like the 650S coupe - there is a reason there are so few vs spyder....... it's what most people wanted and bought.
It's all personal choice of course.......
It's like the 650S coupe - there is a reason there are so few vs spyder....... it's what most people wanted and bought.
It's all personal choice of course.......
I completely agree the couple does inevitably looks better than the spyder but thats almost always the way with spyders, at least you get to hear more of that V10 roar 
Something which surprised me is that there are barely any V10+ spyders for sale in the UK, never thought of it as a rare or hard to buy car. I've been looking since last autumn casually and more seriously now and supply has always been very, very limited.
Any reason for that? I know coupe is easier to find, more for sale as more people went for coupe when new of course.
A bit better with Gen II non +, but even there good cars, at a reputable dealer with good spec low ish miles are far from plentiful!
The sound with the factory sports exhaust has also surprised me (positively), thats coming from the experience of a 458 & valved Gen II Vanquish two incredible sounding cars the R8 is brilliant with sports exhaust to my ears sounds louder and better than the face lift Gen I cars.
Thank you for the offer 200 Plus Club, very kind of you. Can I ask if you have ever had issues with the carbon front splitter? No lift as far as I know, I was a bit paranoid of this with Vanquish (very low!) and no lift too but has actually been ok so far..
Something which surprised me is that there are barely any V10+ spyders for sale in the UK, never thought of it as a rare or hard to buy car. I've been looking since last autumn casually and more seriously now and supply has always been very, very limited.
Any reason for that? I know coupe is easier to find, more for sale as more people went for coupe when new of course.
A bit better with Gen II non +, but even there good cars, at a reputable dealer with good spec low ish miles are far from plentiful!
The sound with the factory sports exhaust has also surprised me (positively), thats coming from the experience of a 458 & valved Gen II Vanquish two incredible sounding cars the R8 is brilliant with sports exhaust to my ears sounds louder and better than the face lift Gen I cars.
Thank you for the offer 200 Plus Club, very kind of you. Can I ask if you have ever had issues with the carbon front splitter? No lift as far as I know, I was a bit paranoid of this with Vanquish (very low!) and no lift too but has actually been ok so far..
Chad_Hugo said:
I completely agree the couple does inevitably looks better than the spyder but thats almost always the way with spyders, at least you get to hear more of that V10 roar
Something which surprised me is that there are barely any V10+ spyders for sale in the UK, never thought of it as a rare or hard to buy car. I've been looking since last autumn casually and more seriously now and supply has always been very, very limited.
Any reason for that? I know coupe is easier to find, more for sale as more people went for coupe when new of course.
A bit better with Gen II non +, but even there good cars, at a reputable dealer with good spec low ish miles are far from plentiful!
The sound with the factory sports exhaust has also surprised me (positively), thats coming from the experience of a 458 & valved Gen II Vanquish two incredible sounding cars the R8 is brilliant with sports exhaust to my ears sounds louder and better than the face lift Gen I cars.
Thank you for the offer 200 Plus Club, very kind of you. Can I ask if you have ever had issues with the carbon front splitter? No lift as far as I know, I was a bit paranoid of this with Vanquish (very low!) and no lift too but has actually been ok so far..
Not as yet but I'm going on a ferry this summer and will be fretting, the front isn't as low as the 570 was, albeit that had lift. Something which surprised me is that there are barely any V10+ spyders for sale in the UK, never thought of it as a rare or hard to buy car. I've been looking since last autumn casually and more seriously now and supply has always been very, very limited.
Any reason for that? I know coupe is easier to find, more for sale as more people went for coupe when new of course.
A bit better with Gen II non +, but even there good cars, at a reputable dealer with good spec low ish miles are far from plentiful!
The sound with the factory sports exhaust has also surprised me (positively), thats coming from the experience of a 458 & valved Gen II Vanquish two incredible sounding cars the R8 is brilliant with sports exhaust to my ears sounds louder and better than the face lift Gen I cars.
Thank you for the offer 200 Plus Club, very kind of you. Can I ask if you have ever had issues with the carbon front splitter? No lift as far as I know, I was a bit paranoid of this with Vanquish (very low!) and no lift too but has actually been ok so far..
I had 3 grands worth of eisenmann valved exhaust on the V8 and although it sounded fabulous its not a patch on this sports exhaust in one of the performance modes.
I have recently checked with Audi and they have an ECU software recall listed that affects the exhaust noise, so that's an opt out lol, not that it's going back to Audi as yet.
Edited by 200Plus Club on Wednesday 19th February 17:53
200Plus Club said:
Chad_Hugo said:
I completely agree the couple does inevitably looks better than the spyder but thats almost always the way with spyders, at least you get to hear more of that V10 roar
Something which surprised me is that there are barely any V10+ spyders for sale in the UK, never thought of it as a rare or hard to buy car. I've been looking since last autumn casually and more seriously now and supply has always been very, very limited.
Any reason for that? I know coupe is easier to find, more for sale as more people went for coupe when new of course.
A bit better with Gen II non +, but even there good cars, at a reputable dealer with good spec low ish miles are far from plentiful!
The sound with the factory sports exhaust has also surprised me (positively), thats coming from the experience of a 458 & valved Gen II Vanquish two incredible sounding cars the R8 is brilliant with sports exhaust to my ears sounds louder and better than the face lift Gen I cars.
Thank you for the offer 200 Plus Club, very kind of you. Can I ask if you have ever had issues with the carbon front splitter? No lift as far as I know, I was a bit paranoid of this with Vanquish (very low!) and no lift too but has actually been ok so far..
Not as yet but I'm going on a ferry this summer and will be fretting, the front isn't as low as the 570 was, albeit that had lift. Something which surprised me is that there are barely any V10+ spyders for sale in the UK, never thought of it as a rare or hard to buy car. I've been looking since last autumn casually and more seriously now and supply has always been very, very limited.
Any reason for that? I know coupe is easier to find, more for sale as more people went for coupe when new of course.
A bit better with Gen II non +, but even there good cars, at a reputable dealer with good spec low ish miles are far from plentiful!
The sound with the factory sports exhaust has also surprised me (positively), thats coming from the experience of a 458 & valved Gen II Vanquish two incredible sounding cars the R8 is brilliant with sports exhaust to my ears sounds louder and better than the face lift Gen I cars.
Thank you for the offer 200 Plus Club, very kind of you. Can I ask if you have ever had issues with the carbon front splitter? No lift as far as I know, I was a bit paranoid of this with Vanquish (very low!) and no lift too but has actually been ok so far..
I had 3 grands worth of eisenmann valved exhaust on the V8 and although it sounded fabulous its not a patch on this sports exhaust in one of the performance modes.
I have recently checked with Audi and they have an ECU software recall listed that affects the exhaust noise, so that's an opt out lol, not that it's going back to Audi as yet.
Edited by 200Plus Club on Wednesday 19th February 17:53
Chad_Hugo said:
Can I ask if you have ever had issues with the carbon front splitter? No lift as far as I know, I was a bit paranoid of this with Vanquish (very low!) and no lift too but has actually been ok so far..
I have a 2019 V10+. No issues at all with the front splitter. It clears speed bumps fine. The only time I've had to be especially careful was on some of the narrow very uneven roads on the NC500, and even then only really on the add on loop via Lochinver and Drumbeg.Good to know, I have done NC500 in lower car (Turbo S with aero kit with no lift) and to be fair did not have any real problems there either.
That ECU update definitely sounds like one to avoid thank you for letting me know, I had no idea not having an R8 yet. Not good, as one car I like is with Audi approved used, do you know when that is due to be done, I assume will be done on cars Audi are selling although who knows if already on sale for some months?
Either way, probably better to avoid. I cant imagine any owner wanting that update why on earth would you buy a super car and want to make it quieter
I am looking for a pre GPF car to get the most out of the exhaust so that would be 2016/2017/2018 up to May or June from what I read makes it even harder to find a car!
Still keen to hear from anyone on standard V10 vs V10+ and how the two compare?
Or anyone who has re-mapped a V10 to get the 610bhp? I am open to either car but with supply so far being what it is if I see a non + car which is ideal for me would be tempted by that too not necessarily because of cost either.
That ECU update definitely sounds like one to avoid thank you for letting me know, I had no idea not having an R8 yet. Not good, as one car I like is with Audi approved used, do you know when that is due to be done, I assume will be done on cars Audi are selling although who knows if already on sale for some months?
Either way, probably better to avoid. I cant imagine any owner wanting that update why on earth would you buy a super car and want to make it quieter
I am looking for a pre GPF car to get the most out of the exhaust so that would be 2016/2017/2018 up to May or June from what I read makes it even harder to find a car!
Still keen to hear from anyone on standard V10 vs V10+ and how the two compare?
Or anyone who has re-mapped a V10 to get the 610bhp? I am open to either car but with supply so far being what it is if I see a non + car which is ideal for me would be tempted by that too not necessarily because of cost either.
I was also thinking of using Re Performance (Ricky's company) who I think know more about R8's than just about anyone else out there, incase I end up with a non + car to get it to 610 bhp as its just a simple ECU tune.
Its around 1200-1300 from memory nowadays for the Velocity AP tune, as you say on a gen I or gen II car seems a good idea.
Its around 1200-1300 from memory nowadays for the Velocity AP tune, as you say on a gen I or gen II car seems a good idea.
Chad_Hugo said:
I was also thinking of using Re Performance (Ricky's company) who I think know more about R8's than just about anyone else out there, incase I end up with a non + car to get it to 610 bhp as its just a simple ECU tune.
Its around 1200-1300 from memory nowadays for the Velocity AP tune, as you say on a gen I or gen II car seems a good idea.
Ricky is certainly the man for anything like that.Its around 1200-1300 from memory nowadays for the Velocity AP tune, as you say on a gen I or gen II car seems a good idea.
I can answer your question re the difference in V10 and V10 plus. It is almost totally unnoticeable on the road.
For background I have had an RWS from new, 2018, which came with the 535bhp tune. Once I had sorted the chassis to where I wanted it I dropped if off at Litchfield to have the 605bhp plus map fitted. There is virtually no difference in normal road driving. On track is where you notice the uplift which is all entirely at the top end, it’s a few mph quicker at the end of a long straight such as Kemel at Spa, or Hanger at Silverstone. The remap does also give a couple of hundred extra revs at the top end, I think it hits the limiter at 8750rpm now. It’s a fantastic engine on track as it pulls right up to the limiter without any discernible drop off once past the power peak. Personally for a road car I just wouldn’t worry which tune it had in it. The V10 is a sublime unit regardless of output.
As far as noise, and let’s face it that’s the bit that really matters I specified mine with the factory optional sports exhaust. It’s a well engineered bit of kit, sounds simply great. Very quiet in comfort mode but with a very subdued burble. In sports mode it’s much louder with a bit of induction noise added into the mix. In max attack mode is bloody fantastic, it sounds like an old F1 car as in hones into the rev limiter and it pops and bangs like a Lamborghini. It can fail the drive by on some track days in full noise mode but you can take it back a notch to sports mode and that does the trick and looses the pops and bangs. I have never been black flagged in this mode.
Despite a full Audi service history, I get it done every year, I’ve never been offered any software “upgrade” nor has the exhaust performance changed so there may be some BS floating around there.
Edit to add gratuitous pic
For background I have had an RWS from new, 2018, which came with the 535bhp tune. Once I had sorted the chassis to where I wanted it I dropped if off at Litchfield to have the 605bhp plus map fitted. There is virtually no difference in normal road driving. On track is where you notice the uplift which is all entirely at the top end, it’s a few mph quicker at the end of a long straight such as Kemel at Spa, or Hanger at Silverstone. The remap does also give a couple of hundred extra revs at the top end, I think it hits the limiter at 8750rpm now. It’s a fantastic engine on track as it pulls right up to the limiter without any discernible drop off once past the power peak. Personally for a road car I just wouldn’t worry which tune it had in it. The V10 is a sublime unit regardless of output.
As far as noise, and let’s face it that’s the bit that really matters
I specified mine with the factory optional sports exhaust. It’s a well engineered bit of kit, sounds simply great. Very quiet in comfort mode but with a very subdued burble. In sports mode it’s much louder with a bit of induction noise added into the mix. In max attack mode is bloody fantastic, it sounds like an old F1 car as in hones into the rev limiter and it pops and bangs like a Lamborghini. It can fail the drive by on some track days in full noise mode but you can take it back a notch to sports mode and that does the trick and looses the pops and bangs. I have never been black flagged in this mode.Despite a full Audi service history, I get it done every year, I’ve never been offered any software “upgrade” nor has the exhaust performance changed so there may be some BS floating around there.
Edit to add gratuitous pic
Edited by bigmowley on Thursday 20th February 14:00
bigmowley said:
I can answer your question re the difference in V10 and V10 plus. It is almost totally unnoticeable on the road.
For background I have had an RWS from new, 2018, which came with the 535bhp tune. Once I had sorted the chassis to where I wanted it I dropped if off at Litchfield to have the 605bhp plus map fitted. There is virtually no difference in normal road driving. On track is where you notice the uplift which is all entirely at the top end, it’s a few mph quicker at the end of a long straight such as Kemel at Spa, or Hanger at Silverstone. The remap does also give a couple of hundred extra revs at the top end, I think it hits the limiter at 8750rpm now. It’s a fantastic engine on track as it pulls right up to the limiter without any discernible drop off once past the power peak. Personally for a road car I just wouldn’t worry which tune it had in it. The V10 is a sublime unit regardless of output.
As far as noise, and let’s face it that’s the bit that really matters I specified mine with the factory optional sports exhaust. It’s a well engineered bit of kit, sounds simply great. Very quiet in comfort mode but with a very subdued burble. In sports mode it’s much louder with a bit of induction noise added into the mix. In max attack mode is bloody fantastic, it sounds like an old F1 car as in hones into the rev limiter and it pops and bangs like a Lamborghini. It can fail the drive by on some track days in full noise mode but you can take it back a notch to sports mode and that does the trick and looses the pops and bangs. I have never been black flagged in this mode.
Despite a full Audi service history, I get it done every year, I’ve never been offered any software “upgrade” nor has the exhaust performance changed so there may be some BS floating around there.
It's not BS- Audi Sheffield JCT have the file note on record with the software revision and a note to ask if the customer wants to opt out, I spoke to them in person about it 2 weeks ago. Mine was booked in with them, as it happens I'm probably going to RE or Unit 20. For background I have had an RWS from new, 2018, which came with the 535bhp tune. Once I had sorted the chassis to where I wanted it I dropped if off at Litchfield to have the 605bhp plus map fitted. There is virtually no difference in normal road driving. On track is where you notice the uplift which is all entirely at the top end, it’s a few mph quicker at the end of a long straight such as Kemel at Spa, or Hanger at Silverstone. The remap does also give a couple of hundred extra revs at the top end, I think it hits the limiter at 8750rpm now. It’s a fantastic engine on track as it pulls right up to the limiter without any discernible drop off once past the power peak. Personally for a road car I just wouldn’t worry which tune it had in it. The V10 is a sublime unit regardless of output.
As far as noise, and let’s face it that’s the bit that really matters
I specified mine with the factory optional sports exhaust. It’s a well engineered bit of kit, sounds simply great. Very quiet in comfort mode but with a very subdued burble. In sports mode it’s much louder with a bit of induction noise added into the mix. In max attack mode is bloody fantastic, it sounds like an old F1 car as in hones into the rev limiter and it pops and bangs like a Lamborghini. It can fail the drive by on some track days in full noise mode but you can take it back a notch to sports mode and that does the trick and looses the pops and bangs. I have never been black flagged in this mode.Despite a full Audi service history, I get it done every year, I’ve never been offered any software “upgrade” nor has the exhaust performance changed so there may be some BS floating around there.
The ECU revision is to address excessive idle noise and alters permanently the operation of the valved exhaust and is not reversible.
If you intend using Audi I'd give JCT Audi Sheffield a call about it, their service lady was very clued up to be fair.
As it happens I found the actual thread about it from the R8 forum and the guy in legal dispute after it was applied without his permission
https://www.r8talk.com/threads/just-received-a-rec...
https://www.r8talk.com/threads/just-received-a-rec...
Hi,
Owner of a gen2 R8…
Some things worth considering when looking at plus or non plus V10.
Non plus are much harder to sell as only a small price difference when buying. non plus has steel brakes which aren't up to the performance and many suffer from warped discs. Non plus if tuned would be more expensive to insure and also even harder to sell than a standard car.
R8 talk website is a mine of information.
Seeing the cars you've had previously I would go plus all day long.
Owner of a gen2 R8…
Some things worth considering when looking at plus or non plus V10.
Non plus are much harder to sell as only a small price difference when buying. non plus has steel brakes which aren't up to the performance and many suffer from warped discs. Non plus if tuned would be more expensive to insure and also even harder to sell than a standard car.
R8 talk website is a mine of information.
Seeing the cars you've had previously I would go plus all day long.
200Plus Club said:
As it happens I found the actual thread about it from the R8 forum and the guy in legal dispute after it was applied without his permission
https://www.r8talk.com/threads/just-received-a-rec...
The Audi R8 V10+ is one of the very few cars that has a fully controllable exhaust that doesn't automatically close the valves in certain rpm ranges (in the correct driving modes) – the only two other such cars to my knowledge are the Maserati GranTurismo (certain models) and the F30 340i with the official MPPSK (which includes catback exhaust + OEM valve control ).https://www.r8talk.com/threads/just-received-a-rec...
Either way, the ECU update that will start closing the valves between 2-4k is real - https://www.r8talk.com/threads/warning-ecu-update-...
I also found this https://www.cete-automotive.de/en/audi-r8-rueckruf...
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff