Discussion
I’m happy to say I’ve got myself to the point where I am shopping for my first supercar.
Ive narrowed it down to 2 specific cars, they’re both off the market private sales.
McLaren 12C and Ferrari F430, both are well maintained cars with no apparent issues, both are in the only colour I would consider the respective cars in.
I’m really torn between the choice, I’ve found a few old threads discussing this topic from 15/16 and back then the overwhelming consensus was McLaren. I was wondering if the now known maintenance/reliability issues of the 12C or the F430’s possible perception of going from ‘outdated tech’ to ‘modern classic’ would change people’s opinions 10 years on.
Both cars have equal levels of spec, the McLaren has 24k miles, the Ferrari 33k miles. Both equally as well maintained. The Ferrari is £5k more.
The Ferrari is a common colour and the McLaren is rarer colour, and as mentioned before, these are the only colours I’d want the cars in so a similar Ferrari in the ideal colour would be easier to find if I wanted to change down the line.
I’d love opinions from people who’ve driven or owned both.
Ive narrowed it down to 2 specific cars, they’re both off the market private sales.
McLaren 12C and Ferrari F430, both are well maintained cars with no apparent issues, both are in the only colour I would consider the respective cars in.
I’m really torn between the choice, I’ve found a few old threads discussing this topic from 15/16 and back then the overwhelming consensus was McLaren. I was wondering if the now known maintenance/reliability issues of the 12C or the F430’s possible perception of going from ‘outdated tech’ to ‘modern classic’ would change people’s opinions 10 years on.
Both cars have equal levels of spec, the McLaren has 24k miles, the Ferrari 33k miles. Both equally as well maintained. The Ferrari is £5k more.
The Ferrari is a common colour and the McLaren is rarer colour, and as mentioned before, these are the only colours I’d want the cars in so a similar Ferrari in the ideal colour would be easier to find if I wanted to change down the line.
I’d love opinions from people who’ve driven or owned both.
Having owned both I can comfortably say there is absolutely no comparison at all. The F430 has the emotional appeal but in every subjective way the McLaren is a much better car. The sheer solidity of the carbon tub and the ballistic performance, not to mention ride quality are leagues ahead. Don't believe the scare stories about reliability. The hardest part will be finding a good one as many seem to have missed years of servicing and been neglected maintenance wise but that also applies to Ferrari. Both manufacturers recommend an annual service yet sellers always seem to explain a four year gap as 'covid' which is BS as service dealerships were open during covid.
Not exactly the same - I went older Ferrari (360) to newer McLaren (650).
I originally planned to part ex the Ferrari for the McLaren, but after a test drive I changed my mind. The McLaren just seemed less.... Dramatic. Partly due to noise perhaps, but the McLaren initially felt just a bit easy to drive.
So for about a year, I ran both. But the Ferrari started getting used less and less until it was not at all.
The McLaren can be as easy and relaxing to drive as a Ford Focus - but it can also be amazing if you want the supercar side.
If you test drive both you may find the Ferrari gives you the instant wow factor more than the McLaren does - but as above, the McLaren is just as capable and ultimately better.
When I was choosing between McLaren and 458, my thought was :
If I bought a McLaren and saw a 458 go past, would I wish I'd bought that?
I concluded I wouldn't, but if I bought a 458 I would wish I'd tried a McLaren if I saw one go past.
I originally planned to part ex the Ferrari for the McLaren, but after a test drive I changed my mind. The McLaren just seemed less.... Dramatic. Partly due to noise perhaps, but the McLaren initially felt just a bit easy to drive.
So for about a year, I ran both. But the Ferrari started getting used less and less until it was not at all.
The McLaren can be as easy and relaxing to drive as a Ford Focus - but it can also be amazing if you want the supercar side.
If you test drive both you may find the Ferrari gives you the instant wow factor more than the McLaren does - but as above, the McLaren is just as capable and ultimately better.
When I was choosing between McLaren and 458, my thought was :
If I bought a McLaren and saw a 458 go past, would I wish I'd bought that?
I concluded I wouldn't, but if I bought a 458 I would wish I'd tried a McLaren if I saw one go past.
I’ve recently gone from owning a Ferrari 360 Spider for the past 15 years to a McLaren 600LT Spider. In terms of outright performance they are not even in the same ballpark but things are closer when you stop talking about ultimate performance and more about day to day driving on public roads without risking jail time. You also can’t overstate the whole “Ferrari thing” which is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your own views.
Purely from a personal point of view I’ve always thought the 12C looked a bit awkward and the visual appeal is a huge thing for me so it would be a 430 for me out of those.
Purely from a personal point of view I’ve always thought the 12C looked a bit awkward and the visual appeal is a huge thing for me so it would be a 430 for me out of those.
renmure said:
I’ve recently gone from owning a Ferrari 360 Spider for the past 15 years to a McLaren 600LT Spider. In terms of outright performance they are not even in the same ballpark but things are closer when you stop talking about ultimate performance and more about day to day driving on public roads without risking jail time. You also can’t overstate the whole “Ferrari thing” which is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your own views.
Purely from a personal point of view I’ve always thought the 12C looked a bit awkward and the visual appeal is a huge thing for me so it would be a 430 for me out of those.
I would love to own a 600LT Spider as that is probably the best McLaren of all for the way I use my cars.Purely from a personal point of view I’ve always thought the 12C looked a bit awkward and the visual appeal is a huge thing for me so it would be a 430 for me out of those.
Ironically I'm the opposite. I placed a deposit on a 650S which didn't stack up on the inspection but also realised I prefer the less shouty appearance of the 12C. Add in far more ground clearance and it works better for me.
I would advise getting as late a 12C as possible as there seems to be a fair bit of development between early and late examples.
Most people who've driven both have said the same thing, so it is down to what you want. I must admit I was surprised you were considering them as alternatives, the 430 being an old school analogue beast (although probably an F1 gearbox?) whereas the 12C didn't come out until a while after the 430 had finished and is a newer tech.
Having been in both, but driven neither, the Ferrari came across as rawer, more visceral, more exciting, but not significantly quicker than our Gransport. The 12C drama was largely limited to getting in and out, however once going I remember it being far more refined, smoother, and fast as ****. It also felt much more like a car you could cross a continent in comfort with.
It really depends what you want from the car.
Having been in both, but driven neither, the Ferrari came across as rawer, more visceral, more exciting, but not significantly quicker than our Gransport. The 12C drama was largely limited to getting in and out, however once going I remember it being far more refined, smoother, and fast as ****. It also felt much more like a car you could cross a continent in comfort with.
It really depends what you want from the car.
ex-devonpaul said:
It really depends what you want from the car.
So much this. I have the odd conversation with people about the Cali T vs the F430 but they are so very different in character (and practicality of course) that it's really hard to make a valid comparison. I suspect the same will be in this case. The F430 is a great car; raw, visceral and a joy to throw around but a GT car? No. You can of course do long European journeys in it but after driving in mine for 12 hours from Italy to home in Wilts, not something I'd really like to do again. I suspect the McLaren would be comfier.
davek_964 said:
Not exactly the same - I went older Ferrari (360) to newer McLaren (650).
I originally planned to part ex the Ferrari for the McLaren, but after a test drive I changed my mind. The McLaren just seemed less.... Dramatic. Partly due to noise perhaps, but the McLaren initially felt just a bit easy to drive.
So for about a year, I ran both. But the Ferrari started getting used less and less until it was not at all.
The McLaren can be as easy and relaxing to drive as a Ford Focus - but it can also be amazing if you want the supercar side.
If you test drive both you may find the Ferrari gives you the instant wow factor more than the McLaren does - but as above, the McLaren is just as capable and ultimately better.
When I was choosing between McLaren and 458, my thought was :
If I bought a McLaren and saw a 458 go past, would I wish I'd bought that?
I concluded I wouldn't, but if I bought a 458 I would wish I'd tried a McLaren if I saw one go past.
Thanks for your input, the Mclaren did seem less exciting from the inside, but I don't know if this would last long termI originally planned to part ex the Ferrari for the McLaren, but after a test drive I changed my mind. The McLaren just seemed less.... Dramatic. Partly due to noise perhaps, but the McLaren initially felt just a bit easy to drive.
So for about a year, I ran both. But the Ferrari started getting used less and less until it was not at all.
The McLaren can be as easy and relaxing to drive as a Ford Focus - but it can also be amazing if you want the supercar side.
If you test drive both you may find the Ferrari gives you the instant wow factor more than the McLaren does - but as above, the McLaren is just as capable and ultimately better.
When I was choosing between McLaren and 458, my thought was :
If I bought a McLaren and saw a 458 go past, would I wish I'd bought that?
I concluded I wouldn't, but if I bought a 458 I would wish I'd tried a McLaren if I saw one go past.
cgt2 said:
I should add my car has sports exhaust and is the Spider variant. Both add a huge amount to the experience.
The F430 Spider is a wobbly old thing. The 12C Spider is rock solid.
Both are coupes, but the 12C has the factory sports exhaust, sounded great from outside on start up but couldn't hear it much when drivingThe F430 Spider is a wobbly old thing. The 12C Spider is rock solid.
Edited by cgt2 on Sunday 16th February 12:37
renmure said:
I’ve recently gone from owning a Ferrari 360 Spider for the past 15 years to a McLaren 600LT Spider. In terms of outright performance they are not even in the same ballpark but things are closer when you stop talking about ultimate performance and more about day to day driving on public roads without risking jail time. You also can’t overstate the whole “Ferrari thing” which is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your own views.
Purely from a personal point of view I’ve always thought the 12C looked a bit awkward and the visual appeal is a huge thing for me so it would be a 430 for me out of those.
Exactly, in the real world I would never need the extra 130bhp, I'm sure the F430 is enough.Purely from a personal point of view I’ve always thought the 12C looked a bit awkward and the visual appeal is a huge thing for me so it would be a 430 for me out of those.
I think the 12C has aged very well, that shape appeals to me now more than any other Mclaren (excluding LT's and P1)
ex-devonpaul said:
Most people who've driven both have said the same thing, so it is down to what you want. I must admit I was surprised you were considering them as alternatives, the 430 being an old school analogue beast (although probably an F1 gearbox?) whereas the 12C didn't come out until a while after the 430 had finished and is a newer tech.
Having been in both, but driven neither, the Ferrari came across as rawer, more visceral, more exciting, but not significantly quicker than our Gransport. The 12C drama was largely limited to getting in and out, however once going I remember it being far more refined, smoother, and fast as ****. It also felt much more like a car you could cross a continent in comfort with.
It really depends what you want from the car.
The reason I'm considering these two, even though they are from different generations and offer different things is because they are priced similarly. I would prefer a 458 over either of them, but that's not in the budget.Having been in both, but driven neither, the Ferrari came across as rawer, more visceral, more exciting, but not significantly quicker than our Gransport. The 12C drama was largely limited to getting in and out, however once going I remember it being far more refined, smoother, and fast as ****. It also felt much more like a car you could cross a continent in comfort with.
It really depends what you want from the car.
Yes I'm talking about F1.
mikemmw said:
Thanks for your input, the Mclaren did seem less exciting from the inside, but I don't know if this would last long term
I'd say I find the McLaren exciting when I drive it fast - more than when I first bought it. However, I had my 360 for about 5 or 6 years and still absolutely loved driving it - until it got eclipsed a bit by the 650. But that doesn't mean they're bad cars at all, and it never stopped feeling amazing on a decent drive.
I think that since you've said the 458 would be your ultimate, you'd be entirely happy with the 430
The big factor for me is the stiffness and sense of safety the McLaren has. You can feel you are in something solid and indestructible even with the roof down and combined with the pin sharp steering and wonderful sports exhaust it is a more visceral experience for me. It can be whatever you want based on the toggle settings. The default in N/N is very comfortable and smooth but turn things up and it's very different.
I previously owned a 458 as well as 430 and neither of those had that appeal, though they had other attributes.
Ferraris have had less direct steering since the 355 (Pista excepted) and while throttle response is great the power delivery itself feels like it's from a different era in terms of linear delivery.
I prefer the 488 to 458 as it is a much more polished and well rounded car. For me that's a more equivalent direct rival to a 12C/650S even though not carbon tubbed.
I previously owned a 458 as well as 430 and neither of those had that appeal, though they had other attributes.
Ferraris have had less direct steering since the 355 (Pista excepted) and while throttle response is great the power delivery itself feels like it's from a different era in terms of linear delivery.
I prefer the 488 to 458 as it is a much more polished and well rounded car. For me that's a more equivalent direct rival to a 12C/650S even though not carbon tubbed.
mikemmw said:
What do you usually use your cars for?
This car for me will be for fine weather drives mostly. Long distance comfort and practicality are low down in the list. I like to think I’d take it on a long road trip, but history tells me it’s unlikely to happen any time soon
Nice days in the UK and try to do one or two big euro trips a year This car for me will be for fine weather drives mostly. Long distance comfort and practicality are low down in the list. I like to think I’d take it on a long road trip, but history tells me it’s unlikely to happen any time soon
mikemmw said:
What do you usually use your cars for?
This car for me will be for fine weather drives mostly. Long distance comfort and practicality are low down in the list. I like to think I’d take it on a long road trip, but history tells me it’s unlikely to happen any time soon
Nice days, good weekends, runs with mates, drives to car meets. The fact that I can only remember driving my 360 Spider by necessity with the roof up a couple of times in 15 years probably gives a hint to my type of ownership. I've yet to drive the 600LT with the roof up. This car for me will be for fine weather drives mostly. Long distance comfort and practicality are low down in the list. I like to think I’d take it on a long road trip, but history tells me it’s unlikely to happen any time soon
Owned a 430 Spider for 3 years, came within a whisker of replacing it with a 12C but it fell through, then ended up in a 650S, so I have a fair bit of experience with both sides of your choice.
I agree with pretty much everything said so far, the Ferrari has that bit more drama, that bit more wow factor when you have the throttle down and you're sending the normally aspirated V8 to the redline. When you are on it, the way it makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end does make it marginally better than the 12C in that regard. The 12C is better in, frankly, every single respect other than that. Of course drama and excitement is what a supercar is for, so that one area is a big deal.
When I first drove a 12C I turned up in my F430, I got to have a good amount of time in the McLaren, including a couple of short full throttle bursts, and I got out with some pretty mixed feelings. I felt it was definitely a better car than my Ferrari, but I didn't instantly fall in love with it like I did the first time I drove the 430. It took me a good week to decide that, on balance, I preferred the McLaren, but only just.
Maybe I am not being very helpful here, but I don't think there is really a right answer. The 12C is unquestionably the "better" car by any objective measure but I wouldn't blame someone for giving in to the the allure of the Ferrari. I eventually ended up in a 650S after waiting a year and saving up a little more money, and that really was a no brainer. The 650 is like a 12C that has had an extra dash of excitement added; I can't put my finger on it, but it's just that little more engaging and that removed any doubts vs the Ferrari. I love my 650S, it's hands down the best car I have owned, but I am actually very happy I had the Ferrari first. I am glad I got to experience Ferrari ownership in the 430, and then move to the McLaren, because going the other way would have been harder.
I agree with pretty much everything said so far, the Ferrari has that bit more drama, that bit more wow factor when you have the throttle down and you're sending the normally aspirated V8 to the redline. When you are on it, the way it makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end does make it marginally better than the 12C in that regard. The 12C is better in, frankly, every single respect other than that. Of course drama and excitement is what a supercar is for, so that one area is a big deal.
When I first drove a 12C I turned up in my F430, I got to have a good amount of time in the McLaren, including a couple of short full throttle bursts, and I got out with some pretty mixed feelings. I felt it was definitely a better car than my Ferrari, but I didn't instantly fall in love with it like I did the first time I drove the 430. It took me a good week to decide that, on balance, I preferred the McLaren, but only just.
Maybe I am not being very helpful here, but I don't think there is really a right answer. The 12C is unquestionably the "better" car by any objective measure but I wouldn't blame someone for giving in to the the allure of the Ferrari. I eventually ended up in a 650S after waiting a year and saving up a little more money, and that really was a no brainer. The 650 is like a 12C that has had an extra dash of excitement added; I can't put my finger on it, but it's just that little more engaging and that removed any doubts vs the Ferrari. I love my 650S, it's hands down the best car I have owned, but I am actually very happy I had the Ferrari first. I am glad I got to experience Ferrari ownership in the 430, and then move to the McLaren, because going the other way would have been harder.
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