What makes Ferrari, Lambo feel special compared to Porsche?
Discussion
Curious to hear owners perspectives. I own a 992 turbo S but have not driven other brands. Basically every YouTube video will say that a Ferrari Lamborghini or McLaren is more interesting or special and I’m curious to hear if owners of these brands have felt the same.
Is it the noise, the looks or the brand experience? Help me convince myself to switch brands 😂
Is it the noise, the looks or the brand experience? Help me convince myself to switch brands 😂
Been a Porsche fanatic all my life, owned my 911 for 20 years.
Modern 911s leave me cold and disinterested. They’ve grown ever bigger, fatter and not so nice look at, bring bake the whale tail, or duck tail,
Now a Ferrari and also a McLaren, not only looks so much more exotic and interesting but is to drive. For me it’s like the old 911 turned up to 11.
I can look at my cars all day long and they evoke feelings that a modern 911 just doesn’t.
Modern 911s leave me cold and disinterested. They’ve grown ever bigger, fatter and not so nice look at, bring bake the whale tail, or duck tail,
Now a Ferrari and also a McLaren, not only looks so much more exotic and interesting but is to drive. For me it’s like the old 911 turned up to 11.
I can look at my cars all day long and they evoke feelings that a modern 911 just doesn’t.
Porsche have tried to make all of their non 'GT' cars as daily drivable as possible. This means appealing to a massive range of people and being accessible and easy to drive to all. This dilutes the pure driving experience that you get in a McLaren or possibly Ferrari (who are heading the Porsche way too IMHO)
Porsche still make great cars. I have a 718 Spyder and it is brilliant. I've driven 7k miles in 6 months. almost all touring. Its hard to fault but like all 'modern' Porsches its also hard to fall for, even thought its a daily drivable 'GT' car. My McLaren 675LT is not as easy to be daily driven (you can at a push). This makes it more of an occasion car. It feels better than every modern Porsche I have driven, or it 'seems' to. It tingles your senses, gives masses of feedback and feels raw & visceral. These are things buyers don't want for cars that can be daily driven.
I prefer to have the 675LT for special days and for normal daily driving I have a 20 year old £1,700 Subaru Forester. It does its daily boring stuff as well as anything else costing 50x more. Porsche don't 'feel' special as they have to engineer in a bit of VW Golf to every car to give them mass appeal. This is commercially very successful. If you want a Porsche an a daily driver, split them up. Get a GT3 (or McLaren / Ferrari) and an old £5k Golf GTi for the everyday stuff. If you want a special 'supercar' type car for general daily use you will never be satisfied either way.
Porsche still make great cars. I have a 718 Spyder and it is brilliant. I've driven 7k miles in 6 months. almost all touring. Its hard to fault but like all 'modern' Porsches its also hard to fall for, even thought its a daily drivable 'GT' car. My McLaren 675LT is not as easy to be daily driven (you can at a push). This makes it more of an occasion car. It feels better than every modern Porsche I have driven, or it 'seems' to. It tingles your senses, gives masses of feedback and feels raw & visceral. These are things buyers don't want for cars that can be daily driven.
I prefer to have the 675LT for special days and for normal daily driving I have a 20 year old £1,700 Subaru Forester. It does its daily boring stuff as well as anything else costing 50x more. Porsche don't 'feel' special as they have to engineer in a bit of VW Golf to every car to give them mass appeal. This is commercially very successful. If you want a Porsche an a daily driver, split them up. Get a GT3 (or McLaren / Ferrari) and an old £5k Golf GTi for the everyday stuff. If you want a special 'supercar' type car for general daily use you will never be satisfied either way.
Edited by Bispal on Friday 20th September 08:53
Make them uber impractical and/or expensive - this makes them less attractive to daily, this means you only drive them when conditions are just so, this makes it special.
Normalise anything (make it obtainable and easier to live with it, you'll use it more, it's normalised and therefore less special.
For both situations you can have a beautiful object, that makes a sound you love, that handles sublimely...the result will be the same in my experience.
I too own a Spyder. I make sure it's NOT used for trips to the shops or the commute. It gets used when the conditions are just so. I've loved Porsche for decades. It feels special....to me. It gets used and not perma-garaged which it feels to me is how the mass majority other stuff gets treated..
Because of their usability and therefore ability to do more, Porsche have a range that reaches further into family wagons and stretches lower down the affordability ladder, not higher... Porsche have purposely placed themselves in a market sectors where their brand still means ALOT but they're still obtainable = massive success....which also sadly equates to being more ubiquitous which also adds to the sense they're less special....to the masses.
Porsche have always meant more to me...a personal thing, so I'm not bothered about 3rd party observation and judgement.
Normalise anything (make it obtainable and easier to live with it, you'll use it more, it's normalised and therefore less special.
For both situations you can have a beautiful object, that makes a sound you love, that handles sublimely...the result will be the same in my experience.
I too own a Spyder. I make sure it's NOT used for trips to the shops or the commute. It gets used when the conditions are just so. I've loved Porsche for decades. It feels special....to me. It gets used and not perma-garaged which it feels to me is how the mass majority other stuff gets treated..
Because of their usability and therefore ability to do more, Porsche have a range that reaches further into family wagons and stretches lower down the affordability ladder, not higher... Porsche have purposely placed themselves in a market sectors where their brand still means ALOT but they're still obtainable = massive success....which also sadly equates to being more ubiquitous which also adds to the sense they're less special....to the masses.
Porsche have always meant more to me...a personal thing, so I'm not bothered about 3rd party observation and judgement.
I think a lot of you are missing the point here by conflating ‘daily driver’ ability with a reduction in ‘specialness’ or a contempt for the ordinary (or something which needs to appeal to the masses).
I think that there are engine and chassis reasons why Porsche is unengaging but I’m no engineer so I can’t explain why.
For example, my Panamera is objectively a better car and handles better than my old 3 series but it’s not as fun or engaging to drive.
My FF is a great daily driver and driving it regularly doesn’t diminish its specialness.
My wife’s daily driver V8V was always fun to drive (when she would let me get my hands on it!) and she still misses it.
There is something about the way Ferraris accelerate, handle and steer (the steering is light compared to the Germans) which makes them much more of an event. And of course, 6cyl < 8cyl < 12cyl.
To answer the OP, I don’t think that brand experience has any bearing on how a car drives when you’re behind the wheel.
I think that there are engine and chassis reasons why Porsche is unengaging but I’m no engineer so I can’t explain why.
For example, my Panamera is objectively a better car and handles better than my old 3 series but it’s not as fun or engaging to drive.
My FF is a great daily driver and driving it regularly doesn’t diminish its specialness.
My wife’s daily driver V8V was always fun to drive (when she would let me get my hands on it!) and she still misses it.
There is something about the way Ferraris accelerate, handle and steer (the steering is light compared to the Germans) which makes them much more of an event. And of course, 6cyl < 8cyl < 12cyl.
To answer the OP, I don’t think that brand experience has any bearing on how a car drives when you’re behind the wheel.
It's the fact that the Italians know how to soak you in the experience. The early 911s do this, albeit to a lesser degree than an old Italian motor. Current 911s feel to me like fast German cars, and that's it. It doesn't feel that special or all consuming. You do get consumed in the experience in a fast Italian car such that you enter the 'flow'. It's the combination of sight, smell, feel and sound. The Italians are just really good at this. Even the Lusso, which I use as a daily, has it in spades. My Audis and the Panamera before it are simply fast, competent cars.
sam.rog said:
They are worse.
If you gave me the choice of a ferrari or porsche for a day I’d take the ferrari.
Give me the keys for a year I’d be in the porsche.
I think thats what makes the italians feel more special.
In what way are they worse? I've had more reliable, better-built Ferraris than I have German cars.If you gave me the choice of a ferrari or porsche for a day I’d take the ferrari.
Give me the keys for a year I’d be in the porsche.
I think thats what makes the italians feel more special.
deto911 said:
Curious to hear owners perspectives. I own a 992 turbo S but have not driven other brands. Basically every YouTube video will say that a Ferrari Lamborghini or McLaren is more interesting or special and I’m curious to hear if owners of these brands have felt the same.
Is it the noise, the looks or the brand experience? Help me convince myself to switch brands ??
I think you may need to define what you mean by 'special'. Is it the noise, the looks or the brand experience? Help me convince myself to switch brands ??
I went from a 911 turbo to Ferraris and the brand experience is night and day. With the dealerships, it's partly down to numbers - why would a Porsche dealer remember me out of the thousands of other customers, whereas, with my local Ferrari dealer, they know me and it's an altogether more personal approach, whether that's in the showroom itself, communications, or events.
The options, when you spec a new car, range from the boring to the extraordinary. Rosso Corsa with Crema? Easy. Grigio Scuro and Tortora with teak sills to match the yacht? No problem.
Or, are you talking about the cars themselves? For me, a 911 is like any other white goods. They may be brilliant cars that are faster around a track, but they are soulless. They are not special, to me, they are clinical and designed and built without passion.
"I don’t sell cars; I sell engines. The cars I throw in for free since something has to hold the engines in". That philosophy is what I would define as special, and it is reinforced when you push the starter and see your children grin in the mirror.
deto911 said:
Curious to hear owners perspectives. I own a 992 turbo S but have not driven other brands. Basically every YouTube video will say that a Ferrari Lamborghini or McLaren is more interesting or special and I’m curious to hear if owners of these brands have felt the same.
Is it the noise, the looks or the brand experience? Help me convince myself to switch brands ??
Imagine yourself watching the final of the Champions League, it’s the 2nd half and your team are winning so you’ll have to be a Northerner in this story. 2 scenarios;Is it the noise, the looks or the brand experience? Help me convince myself to switch brands ??
1) you are sat on the sofa, remote in one hand, beer in another which, since the start of the game, has been attentively supplied by your German girlfriend who has also cleaned your flat and ensured the pouffe is the correct distance from the sofa so your legs don’t get tired. She’s told you the bed is prepared for the end of the game and has a contingency of beer in case of extra time/penalties. The other team equalise, and the game goes to penalties where your team loses, unfortunately you’ve now had 12 beers and even though she does all the right things, the most you can manage is a semi and although the result is good, you just feel there’s something missing. You wake up the next day with a headache, disappointed and wondering when you’ll next be watching your team in the final again.
2) you’re watching the same game at the same point when your Italian booty call opens the door with a key you didn’t she had. She’s naked other than a very stylish raincoat and high heels. She walks up to you, takes her coat off, drinks your beer, takes the remote off you, turns off the TV (throwing it across the room) and proceeds to shag your brains out. Once finished she stands up, slaps you round the head, puts her coat on and walks out of the open door. You look at the TV trying to remember what you were watching. You wake up on the sofa and google the score to find you’ve lost, you smile and think “next year”…
I think it's about more than just noise - sticking a loud exhaust on a Vauxhall Corsa won't make it feel like a Ferrari. I don't know what it is though.
I had a 911 (996) turbo and found it very dull. It accelerated hard, and would go very fast - but that didn't really make it less dull - it was just........ dull but faster.
Ferrari's feel special at 30mph - and more special at higher speed. But the 360 I had isn't something I would have wanted to use every day.
But supercars have moved on. My 650 is as easy to drive as a Ford Focus if you keep it off boost - in fact, stick it in auto and it's probably easier. I do run it daily - same as I did the previous one - and find it excellent for it. But it's different from the 996 turbo - if you decide to drive it properly, it feels like a much more special car. It can do both - which I've no doubt modern Ferrari can too.
I had a 911 (996) turbo and found it very dull. It accelerated hard, and would go very fast - but that didn't really make it less dull - it was just........ dull but faster.
Ferrari's feel special at 30mph - and more special at higher speed. But the 360 I had isn't something I would have wanted to use every day.
But supercars have moved on. My 650 is as easy to drive as a Ford Focus if you keep it off boost - in fact, stick it in auto and it's probably easier. I do run it daily - same as I did the previous one - and find it excellent for it. But it's different from the 996 turbo - if you decide to drive it properly, it feels like a much more special car. It can do both - which I've no doubt modern Ferrari can too.
Interesting thread!
I have a budget of up to £60k so I fancy something like a 360 or Gallardo.
davek_964 said:
I had a 911 (996) turbo and found it very dull. It accelerated hard, and would go very fast - but that didn't really make it less dull - it was just........ dull but faster.
Ferrari's feel special at 30mph - and more special at higher speed. But the 360 I had isn't something I would have wanted to use every day.
I guess it's all relative because compared to my shed TT, my 996 Turbo feels like an event to even just sit in and it makes the 20 zones round here more interesting. Then again, my TT felt like an event compared to my old C Class.Ferrari's feel special at 30mph - and more special at higher speed. But the 360 I had isn't something I would have wanted to use every day.
I have a budget of up to £60k so I fancy something like a 360 or Gallardo.
Hoofy said:
Interesting thread!
I have a budget of up to £60k so I fancy something like a 360 or Gallardo.
It's a fair point - the turbo was in the same company as a Ferrari for most of the time I owned it and it never felt like a sports car to me. The exception was the last month I owned it - when I was using an AM Vantage most of the time. When I went back to using the turbo (just before selling it) it suddenly felt much sharper compared to the Aston. davek_964 said:
I had a 911 (996) turbo and found it very dull. It accelerated hard, and would go very fast - but that didn't really make it less dull - it was just........ dull but faster.
Ferrari's feel special at 30mph - and more special at higher speed. But the 360 I had isn't something I would have wanted to use every day.
I guess it's all relative because compared to my shed TT, my 996 Turbo feels like an event to even just sit in and it makes the 20 zones round here more interesting. Then again, my TT felt like an event compared to my old C Class.Ferrari's feel special at 30mph - and more special at higher speed. But the 360 I had isn't something I would have wanted to use every day.
I have a budget of up to £60k so I fancy something like a 360 or Gallardo.
(I still preferred the Aston though).
360 is an excellent shout - I enjoyed mine. Well, until the engine blew up anyway.
I guess the thing that makes them an arse to live with is the thing that makes them feel special.
As said above, I'd take the Ferrari for a day but I'd tire of it quickly. This is spoken as someone who has access to both, but own the Turbo S.
I also don't particularly like the attention the red Ferrari gets over the black Porsche but get that is a draw for a lot of people.
As said above, I'd take the Ferrari for a day but I'd tire of it quickly. This is spoken as someone who has access to both, but own the Turbo S.
I also don't particularly like the attention the red Ferrari gets over the black Porsche but get that is a draw for a lot of people.
davek_964 said:
It's a fair point - the turbo was in the same company as a Ferrari for most of the time I owned it and it never felt like a sports car to me. The exception was the last month I owned it - when I was using an AM Vantage most of the time. When I went back to using the turbo (just before selling it) it suddenly felt much sharper compared to the Aston.
(I still preferred the Aston though).
360 is an excellent shout - I enjoyed mine. Well, until the engine blew up anyway.
Uh oh...(I still preferred the Aston though).
360 is an excellent shout - I enjoyed mine. Well, until the engine blew up anyway.
Hoofy said:
davek_964 said:
It's a fair point - the turbo was in the same company as a Ferrari for most of the time I owned it and it never felt like a sports car to me. The exception was the last month I owned it - when I was using an AM Vantage most of the time. When I went back to using the turbo (just before selling it) it suddenly felt much sharper compared to the Aston.
(I still preferred the Aston though).
360 is an excellent shout - I enjoyed mine. Well, until the engine blew up anyway.
Uh oh...(I still preferred the Aston though).
360 is an excellent shout - I enjoyed mine. Well, until the engine blew up anyway.
My car had the official fix - which clearly doesn't fix it. Bent valves but no damage to the pistons. Top end rebuild needed on one bank - cost about £6.5k at an indy.
Despite being a "common" failure, it's fairly rare - hence I'd not heard of it in about 6 years of ownership before it happened.
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