California T or F430

[NRG1976]

So really fancy scratching that Ferrari itch and plan on doing about 3500 miles a year in it. Ideally looking for a model which is cheapest on running cost and most straightforward to sell privately as I only keep most cars for about 18 months, Trying to stick to a max £80k budget, would love your views on my questions…

In general terms:

1. Would the California T likely be more reliable than the F430 and cheaper to run ?
2. Would the California be easier to resell privately than a F430? (assume both cars being red and auto)?
3. Should I hold out for the handling pack on California T ?

Thanks


ETA: was thinking of going for this one
https://www.warfordcarsltd.co.uk/details/used-car-...

[garystoybox]

NRG1976 said:

So really fancy scratching that Ferrari itch and plan on doing about 3500 miles a year in it. Ideally looking for a model which is cheapest on running cost and most straightforward to sell privately as I only keep most cars for about 18 months, Trying to stick to a max £80k budget, would love your views on my questions…

In general terms:

1. Would the California T likely be more reliable than the F430 and cheaper to run ?
2. Would the California be easier to resell privately than a F430? (assume both cars being red and auto)?
3. Should I hold out for the handling pack on California T ?

Thanks


ETA: was thinking of going for this one
https://www.warfordcarsltd.co.uk/details/used-car-...

1) more reliable but not necessarily cheaper if something goes wrong.
2) don’t think so- T’s stick a bit unless priced aggressively. Also highest mileage will come in to play.
3) no - it takes away it’s suppleness.
Owned both and loved the T (wives car).
My business partner just bought one 3 weeks ago. Mega spec red (£45k options) 2016 with 6k mileage from main dealer for £87k. That’s where the markets at. Oh and he loves his too (previous 430 owner also)

[ANOpax]

Wot Gary said ^^^

1 Cali T probably more reliable than an F430 but when it does go wrong, the bills are larger (DCT box and roof mech).

2 Resale probably no worse or better for either but Calis seem to sell better in the spring and worse in the winter than F430s (the convertible effect).

3 Handling pack will limit your choice of cars. It also takes away the less hard-core nature of the T.

At the end of the day, they’re very different in driving position, cabin ambience, analogue vs digital and overall feel. I’d let those factors influence you rather than which one is a better buy as the market tends to be pretty rational about these things and both cars have their compromises - only you can decide which compromises are worth it for you.

[DeuceDeuce]

garystoybox said:

1) more reliable but not necessarily cheaper if something goes wrong.
2) don’t think so- T’s stick a bit unless priced aggressively. Also highest mileage will come in to play.
3) no - it takes away it’s suppleness.
Owned both and loved the T (wives car).
My business partner just bought one 3 weeks ago. Mega spec red (£45k options) 2016 with 6k mileage from main dealer for £87k. That’s where the markets at. Oh and he loves his too (previous 430 owner also)

Just curious, do you know what price your business partner’s car was advertised at?

[cgt2]

F430 is a much more visceral experience. If you think of the Cali as a Mercedes SL63 alternative not a sports car. I haven't owned a Cali T but know from experience that a well sorted F430 shouldn't cost more than £3k a year to run (and probably less). Ball joints should be considered a consumable item but the engine and gearbox technology is quite solid. The F1 transmission is well sorted (this was the final iteration excluding the 599) and most common issues are well known by now.

The big weak point on Calis is the DCT. I know of a friend who spent £17k on a subsidised gearbox repair on his Cali T (I have seen the invoice myself). Car has full Ferrari main dealer history hence why they knocked a few k off for the repair.

You can run a F430 for five years and probably never see a £17k bill in one hit. Specialists know them well and they are not overly troublesome.

[GTRene]

a F430 is also way lighter I thought? so more involving I guess.

[supersport]

I would have thought they are wildly different cars.

Huge gap in age. The F430 is quite raw by modern standards. Absolutely loved mine.

Took a long time to sell though. Admittedly I didn’t try. Dry hard for a long time.

I still look at them now think they are stunning to look at.

[garystoybox]

DeuceDeuce said:

Just curious, do you know what price your business partner’s car was advertised at?

It was up in the mid 90’s for some months and the dealer did a big price reduction and it sold almost immediately for full new asking with 2/3 buyers after it.
Basically they just needed to get it off the books.
Also included next service free, four new tyres and a new battery; 2 owner car. Rosso, black daytonna seats, full carbon interior, car play, upgraded hi-fi, diamond cut forged wheels, front and rear cameras. I sourced it for him and was quite staggered at how good a car it is for the money. Think the T is a great buy and massively improved over its predecessor.

[DeuceDeuce]

garystoybox said:

It was up in the mid 90’s for some months and the dealer did a big price reduction and it sold almost immediately for full new asking with 2/3 buyers after it.
Basically they just needed to get it off the books.
Also included next service free, four new tyres and a new battery; 2 owner car. Rosso, black daytonna seats, full carbon interior, car play, upgraded hi-fi, diamond cut forged wheels, front and rear cameras. I sourced it for him and was quite staggered at how good a car it is for the money. Think the T is a great buy and massively improved over its predecessor.

Thanks. I had a really nice one briefly but sold it without ever having had much use of it and am looking to buy again. Or maybe hold on to see if a bargain Portofino shows up.

[murphyaj]

Other than both being a Ferrari these are very different cars. I just sold my F430 after 3 years of ownership, I originally went out looking to get a Cali but went for the 430 after trying one and it just clicked. I get that there is an itch to own "a Ferrari", but honestly before looking at running costs and ease of selling I'd figure out which type of car you want. One is an old school supercar, the other is a modern convertible GT car. Both are fabulous, and neither will disappoint, but they really are different enough that you will almost certainly prefer one to the other.

Can't comment directly on Cali T running costs, but i'd budget a few grand a year for a 430. I'd expect both cars to be tough to sell privately unless you are aggressive on price or prepared to be very patient. I sold my 430 privately, but it was up for a couple of months before someone picked it up.

[sparta6]

murphyaj said:

Other than both being a Ferrari these are very different cars. I just sold my F430 after 3 years of ownership, I originally went out looking to get a Cali but went for the 430 after trying one and it just clicked. I get that there is an itch to own "a Ferrari", but honestly before looking at running costs and ease of selling I'd figure out which type of car you want. One is an old school supercar, the other is a modern convertible GT car. Both are fabulous, and neither will disappoint, but they really are different enough that you will almost certainly prefer one to the other.

Can't comment directly on Cali T running costs, but i'd budget a few grand a year for a 430. I'd expect both cars to be tough to sell privately unless you are aggressive on price or prepared to be very patient. I sold my 430 privately, but it was up for a couple of months before someone picked it up.

^^this^^

Defining your purpose of usage will help avoid compromise.

[NRG1976]

Thanks so much for the responses, definitely food for thought.

Unfortunately the car I wanted, which I had linked in my OP, seems to have been advertised and then sold within a day or so

https://www.warfordcarsltd.co.uk/details/used-car-...


If the gearbox sensor does go on the California, rather than £17k on a new gearbox, can the existing one not just be fixed? That alone will swing the car I go for one way or the other.

My wife wants a McLaren, but I don’t want to buy something privately where it is only either a dealer or Thorney (far away) alone that can work on them, as if things go wrong I can see the bills become huge even for minor things.

Edited by NRG1976 on Thursday 13th June 12:54

[HIS LM]

Your wife is correct (they always are) get a McLaren, don't forget V Engineering depending where you are ?

And for context I have owned a Cali and 430 and now a multiple Mac owner

Edited by HIS LM on Thursday 13th June 18:10

[NRG1976]

HIS LM said:

Your wife is correct (they always are) get a McLaren, don't forget V Engineering depending where you are ?

And for context I have owned a Cali and 430 and now a multiple Mac owner

Edited by HIS LM on Thursday 13th June 18:10

Near Birmingham

[Ken_Code]

NRG1976 said:

My wife wants a McLaren, but I don’t want to buy something privately where it is only either a dealer or Thorney (far away) alone that can work on them, as if things go wrong I can see the bills become huge even for minor things.

Edited by NRG1976 on Thursday 13th June 12:54

I’ve a 650s Spider and a Portofino, so not exactly the cars you’re thinking off, but same ball park.

The reason that I have both is that they are completely different cars. The Portofino is like a previous generation SL63, with two back seats added.

It’s far lazier in intent than the McLaren, less frantic.

[supersport]

Get a McLaren they rock.

I’ve agonised over this for a while. I’m 6ft4 and the space and comfort of the McLaren is so much better.

I love owning a Ferrari but the McLaren is so much better and more comfortable.

Whilst I reserve the right to change my mind, I suspect I won’t.

Brain says keep 458 but heart says keep 720.

[Boleros]

I have an F430 Spider (three years now) and test a drove a Cali T late last year. Both are very very different cars and as someone has already said, you need to be absolutely clear about what you want them to do for your 3500 miles a year.

I took mine down to Italy 18 months ago and the 12 hour drive back made me start to think that there might be a more comfortable way of doing it, hence the test drive of the Cali T. It's undoubtedly a quick car, esp the steering, that really caught me by surprise. It's comfortable too, I could easily imagine tooling across Europe in it with no bother. Very quiet though, little to no drama and very effective.

However, I couldn't wait to get back into my F430 for the noise, the feel, the theatre, the rawness (in comparison). Yes the F1 gearbox is antiquated and it's not as quick although 490bhp is plenty, for me anyway. The interior is dated, there is no cupholder which is bizarrely really annoying and it lacks the finesse of the Cali T. But it feels real, like I think a Ferrari should do.

If I only ever did long motorway journeys with the occasional blat at the end then the Cali T or a Portofino makes absolute sense. However, I'm the other way round. I use mine for mostly hooning around with the occasional long journey thrown in and that suits me just fine.

As for costs, £5k before I even drive it. Annual main dealer service, insurance, storage and VED. Oh and the balljoints as and when. Get a well sorted one like mine and costs will be minimal. Buy a pig and it can get very spendy.

[Hoofy]

I read somewhere that the main thing that goes wrong with the Cali gearbox is the speed sensor. When the DCT first came out, the only option was to replace the entire box but apparently, they can now just replace the speed sensor for about £7k.

[murphyaj]

I'll weigh in here on the Ferrari / McLaren discussion too.
Until last month I had an F430 Spider which I had owned for 3 years, I just replaced it with a McLaren 650S spider. Much like the between the 430 and the Cali, they are quite different. Both mid-engine rear drive convertible supercars, but they are quite different in character.

The 430 was very raw, the last of the old school supercars. The cabin was beautiful while also being minimalist, it felt like you were there just to focus on driving. It was loud, fairly unrefined, the stereo was st, and not much in the way of modern equipment, but when you are on it boy oh boy did it thrill. Drop a few gears on the F1 box, nail the throttle out of the corner and let that normally aspirated Ferrari V8 rev out to 8500 RPM and you'll feel just so alive. The noise alone is worth the price. The F1 box is also nowhere near as bad as motoring journalists would have you believe; learn to use it properly and it's absolutely fine.

The McLaren is, objectively, a better car. Faster, more equipment, more refined, much better gearbox for town use. However, in my opinion, it gives a little bit away to the Ferrari in terms of sheer raw excitement for the small percentage of time that you are really pushing it. It's hard to put my finger on why, probably a combination of the extra refinement and the less dramatic turbocharged engine, but there's a little something the Ferrari had which it doesn't. I prefer the McLaren (obviously, as I spent a 5 figure sum swapping into for one), but if I had the space and the money I could see myself keeping both. I am very glad I owned the Ferrari, and that I got to experience it, and I'm glad that I did it that way round as I think going from the 650 to the 430 would have felt like too much of a step down. A 458 is probably the best of both worlds, but sadly my pockets aren't quite that deep yet.

You need to drive all the cars on your shortlist and decide for yourself. Good luck, it's a fantastic problem to have.

[willy wombat]

Boleros said:

I have an F430 Spider (three years now) and test a drove a Cali T late last year. Both are very very different cars and as someone has already said, you need to be absolutely clear about what you want them to do for your 3500 miles a year.

I took mine down to Italy 18 months ago and the 12 hour drive back made me start to think that there might be a more comfortable way of doing it, hence the test drive of the Cali T. It's undoubtedly a quick car, esp the steering, that really caught me by surprise. It's comfortable too, I could easily imagine tooling across Europe in it with no bother. Very quiet though, little to no drama and very effective.

However, I couldn't wait to get back into my F430 for the noise, the feel, the theatre, the rawness (in comparison). Yes the F1 gearbox is antiquated and it's not as quick although 490bhp is plenty, for me anyway. The interior is dated, there is no cupholder which is bizarrely really annoying and it lacks the finesse of the Cali T. But it feels real, like I think a Ferrari should do.

If I only ever did long motorway journeys with the occasional blat at the end then the Cali T or a Portofino makes absolute sense. However, I'm the other way round. I use mine for mostly hooning around with the occasional long journey thrown in and that suits me just fine.

As for costs, £5k before I even drive it. Annual main dealer service, insurance, storage and VED. Oh and the balljoints as and when. Get a well sorted one like mine and costs will be minimal. Buy a pig and it can get very spendy.

Interesting comment re the 430. I owned one for 2 years (2006-2008) and eventually traded it in (for a 599) for precisely the reasons you said. It was great fun on track and the back roads but just going somewhere on a motorway I found it droned and was uncomfortable.
I have since then owned various Ferraris including a California and a Portofino. A Portofino is basically a better California but both are great touring cars and I took/take both to France and Italy regularly (I have also toured in a 458 spider which is an ok tourer - better than a 430 but not as comfortable/practical as the Cali/Portofino). So to revert to the OP’s question, which to buy is entirely dependent on what you intend to use it for.