Moving on from 612… 650S? 430? Gallardo?

[cradock]

Tapping into the collective wisdom (I hope) of those with experience of a range of cars. Not to mention, starting the enjoyable process of wondering what next.

I’ve had my 612 now for seven years, I had a 355 spider alongside it for a few of those but that’s now gone. I got the 612 after having a Maserati Gran Tourismo as it has four seats and the kids were younger. Now it seems only to be me and at most one other in the car, I may as well move back to a two seater.

I’ve been thrilled with the 612, but the maintenance costs are pretty severe. So, that set me thinking that I may as well trade up quite meaningfully in ticket price but look for something that will need fewer large bills. The 612 has been maintained on a no expense spared basis (I’ve not added it up - I daren’t - but I expect I’ve spent in total over the years a high percentage of the original cost…!)

As a replacement, I’m thinking a budget of GBP80-100k, and that seems to put three cars in the frame:
1/ Gallardo LP-560 (post face lift, 5.2, spyder) - gather that it is a great car and reliable, and well depreciated now - its also that slightly crazy itch to scratch in the way only a lamborghini can..
2/ Mclaren 650s spyder - lovely car, fast, and have read that it is surprisingly reliable if used regularly (I followed the blog from the US guy using it as a DD), but if a big bill hits its - well - big
3/ Ferrari 430 convertible - I’ll confess I’m not a fan of its looks in all colours, but with the chain driven cams and far greater reliability than 360 it ticks a lot of boxes and could be a nice stepping stone to a 488 further down the line

Would really appreciate thoughts, views on living with these cars. I’ve lurked on plenty of the forum threads and have some broad views, but would welcome any pointers. Also, while I know Rardley in Grayshott and KHPC in Maidstone for the Ferrari, and rate them both highly, I don’t know where to go for a good Lambo or Mclaren Indie so any suggestions in Sussex/Kent/Hants/Surrey/London area would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a million in advance!

[Kyodo]

[quote=cradockFerrari 430 convertible - I’ll confess I’m not a fan of its looks in all colours, but with the chain driven cams and far greater reliability than 360...
[/quote]
I'm not sure it has far greater reliability than the 360 but it could be a good shout if you fancy staying with Ferrari.

[jimmyslr]

I’ve owned a wide variety of cars, incl a 612 (for the same reasons you mention) and a 430. Along the way various Porsches and others.

I haven’t had a McLaren and feel I need to do that at some point so I get where you’re coming from. The received wisdom seems to be warranty is a must albeit the 650 does have a reputation of being more reliable. The new indies who can now look after them do help if you want to self insure. I have my eye half on a 600 LT, but I’m also thinking of a F12 to return to the Ferrari fold. For what it’s worth, I think you tend to hear a disproportionate amount of noise about McLaren reliability as that is what gets posted. Friends who’ve had 650 and 570 have had no issues, but a couple of 720 not so much!

The car that I bought a year ago and really rate is a Porsche 718 Spyder (the 981 generation is almost identical with a better exhaust note). It’s a GT4 in a prettier body, easy to drive in a relaxed manner, very fast if you want it to be, not too big and thus more usable, light control weights and reasonably modern tech. I drive it rather than my GT3 which says something. The kids like it, the wife likes it. I’ve been really impressed. It isn’t however a supercar which is both a plus and a minus. I’d keep this car if I bought a Mclaren or a Ferrari and would likely use it more than either.

If you want something a bit more reliable there’s the Audi R8. All the performance with added assurance it will work. There is of course a regular debate about the badge and whether it’s a super car.

[davek_964]

For me, even though I'd owned one before - I couldn't find anything at ~£100k that would tempt me away from buying another 650 Spider.

I considered Huracan (more money obviously) but didn't want a proper soft top and couldn't convince myself to spend more on a coupe - plus very compromised luggage space. Plus, McLaren servicing had been very reasonable - even at official dealers - and I didn't want to significantly increase that.

Ferrari didn't really get a consideration. Much as I liked my 360, a 430 at the same kind of price as the 650 just doesn't add up for me, and although I'm sure they're great cars I think 458s are massively overpriced.

I would have liked to try something different the second time around but the 650 ticked all the boxes the first time and I couldn't really find anything that compared for the same money. They are insanely good value.

[andrew]

i did lots of rational analysis once, and ended up with yet another 911

next time around, i just went with my heart...

[jeremyc]

cradock said:

Also, while I know Rardley in Grayshott and KHPC in Maidstone for the Ferrari, and rate them both highly, I don’t know where to go for a good Lambo ... Indie so any suggestions in Sussex/Kent/Hants/Surrey/London area would be greatly appreciated.

Aufofficina for your Lamborghini and Ferrari servicing needs.

[samoht]

cradock said:

I don’t know where to go for a good Lambo or Mclaren Indie so any suggestions in Sussex/Kent/Hants/Surrey/London area would be greatly appreciated.

I take my 570GT to V Engineering in Thatcham, two guys who each did ten years with McLaren and then set up together. As a result they're very knowledgeable, they're also happy to show and tell everything they're doing when the car's on the ramp. They're finding cheaper solutions to common problems than main dealers can, so hopefully avoiding the need for a warranty. You can see a bit of them in this Tavarish vid https://youtu.be/2hI1IY782ig?t=1242 . Highly recommended.
(Incidentally there was also a Miura, Daytona and Testarossa in the workshop when I was there, plus some 575s, but they mainly focus on McLarens).

The way I see it you're trading off the sound and response of an NA engine against the benefits of a carbon tub and really good steering with a McLaren, plus getting a newer car for the money. So really down to personal preference about what you like.

[Fast Eddie]

jeremyc said:

cradock said:

Also, while I know Rardley in Grayshott and KHPC in Maidstone for the Ferrari, and rate them both highly, I don’t know where to go for a good Lambo ... Indie so any suggestions in Sussex/Kent/Hants/Surrey/London area would be greatly appreciated.

Aufofficina for your Lamborghini and Ferrari servicing needs.

Absolutely second that opinion

[Nuttbelle]

650S spider by a long way from those options

[SSO]

Nuttbelle said:

650S spider by a long way from those options

+1 on the 650S Spider. Have had ours for 8 years. Great car.

[cradock]

Thanks to all for the replies - it’s interesting that the 650S is getting a lot of love here! For choice it’s probably the one that is most interesting to me. It’s weird to think that perhaps of the three the Lamborghini is the sensible choice!

Noted re autoficina and the mclaren folks in thatcham for servicing - are these also place to look out for to find the car? Any pointers for good dealers is welcome too!

Currently I have: #1 - 650S, #2 - gallardo, #3 - 430, the next part is I guess the fun bit… a poke around the dealerships and a test drive!

Thanks again to all who took the time to reply

[Bispal]

cradock said:

Thanks to all for the replies - it’s interesting that the 650S is getting a lot of love here! For choice it’s probably the one that is most interesting to me. It’s weird to think that perhaps of the three the Lamborghini is the sensible choice!

Noted re autoficina and the mclaren folks in thatcham for servicing - are these also place to look out for to find the car? Any pointers for good dealers is welcome too!

Currently I have: #1 - 650S, #2 - gallardo, #3 - 430, the next part is I guess the fun bit… a poke around the dealerships and a test drive!

Thanks again to all who took the time to reply

Another for the 650s. I have owned a 12C & 675LT and both were very reliable and just such good cars. Not many cars can thrill you on the twisties and then return 40mpg like a McLaren P11 car. Approaching 7 years and 25k miles in mine collectively. As has been said V engineering have quite the reputation but don't discount McLaren Guildford either (Bell & Colvill). I would buy with 1 year warranty to iron out any niggles then go forward without. Honestly such amazing cars and way underappreciated / valued.

[Nero77]

Over the last 5/6 years I've be fortunate enough to own: Ferrari 360, 430, 355; Lamborghini Gallardo Performante; 991.1 GT3 and lastly my current car a Mantis Green 650S Spider.

I've always been a Ferrari man and I did over 25k miles in my 430 over 3 years. If I were to buy one again it would be a 360 though - better sounding and I think looks better.

Been so anti Mclaren for years but the 650 is by far and away the best car I've owned. There is not - and I think I've said this before - anything to touch it for the money. What swayed it for me? Partly the roof down/carbon tub element but more importantly, the back up of leading independents who can fix things at reasonable cost rather than OEM replacements. Take a bow V Engineering.

The 650's suspension is incredible - more comfortable in soft settings than my Volvo (but still riding flat around corners). The speed is crazy and I think the sound is great, though I do have a Larini system.

I've had mine for coming up for a year and done 10k miles in it. Road trips, corner shop trips, track days. Not missed a beat. Issues - roof mechanism needed to be reset, the plastic catch for the fuel filler cap broke and a lazy door latch (which I replaced to soft close). Service was £480 from VE.

Only main issue with them is the suspension actuators (or accumulators) which need replacing - but VE offer alternatives which can be repaired rather than replaced over time. My car has these fitted (taken care of by garage I bought from as they failed on my test drive).

If you have any particular questions just ask...!

[GTRene]

hm, just wanted to find out more about the 650s and Spyder, what turning circle it has, because of my garage location.

Mclaren 650s/spyder both 4.509mm turning circle of 12,3 meters

I have owned a Opel Speedster Turbo which is just 3.786mm long but had a turning circle of 11,6 meter and could not easy turn in backwards in my garage, which is next to the sidewalk and a small street.

I then have to make double the manoeuvres as say my BMW Z3 all types, say a M coupe Z3 is 4.025mm long, but its turning circle just 10,4 meter, which is precise good for my garage situation, the 11,6 meters from the small Opel Speedster is to big, let alone the 12,3 meters of the Mclaren.

yes you can make double the manoeuvres, but when other cars come in the street = stress, also when cars parked in the street by my garage its also a problem, although in some cases I then can use the not wide sidewalk as extra room a bit, but then I risk my alu wheels, but when carefully it can with say the Z3 coupe/roadster if cars are parked in the turning circle needed, in front of my garage... but in such case that can not happen if a car has a turning circle like say the small speedster and its 11,6 meter.

so happy to see a Mclaren 650s is not a great idea in my situation :-)

hm, also a 570s or spyder are the same resp 12,3 and 12,4 meters circle, almost all McLarens so it seems.... grrr

[samoht]

cradock said:

Noted re autoficina and the mclaren folks in thatcham for servicing - are these also place to look out for to find the car? Any pointers for good dealers is welcome too!

V Engineering don't sell cars AFAIK. They would be my preferred choice for a PPI, though.

You could try asking Alastair Bols, who has v good reputation. McLaren Hatfield were dubious about the prospect of them retailing 650s due to their age, although I did see a couple sold by New Forest recently.

There only seem to be ten 650S Spiders for sale presently, I think they're fairly rare and perhaps owners are tending to hang on to them now.

[davek_964]

samoht said:

V Engineering don't sell cars AFAIK. They would be my preferred choice for a PPI, though.

You could try asking Alastair Bols, who has v good reputation. McLaren Hatfield were dubious about the prospect of them retailing 650s due to their age, although I did see a couple sold by New Forest recently.

There only seem to be ten 650S Spiders for sale presently, I think they're fairly rare and perhaps owners are tending to hang on to them now.

Mine came from AB and would definitely recommend him. His reputation is justified.

There does seem to be a very low number of 650 Spiders for sale - I thought the number would jump in the summer but it seems not.

I am toying with the idea of selling mine. It's booked to have the wheels done next week after I managed to graze the rear left slightly - once that's done I'll decide. If I do decide to sell it will probably go back to AB.

[cradock]

davek_964 said:

For me, even though I'd owned one before - I couldn't find anything at ~£100k that would tempt me away from buying another 650 Spider.

I considered Huracan (more money obviously) but didn't want a proper soft top and couldn't convince myself to spend more on a coupe - plus very compromised luggage space. Plus, McLaren servicing had been very reasonable - even at official dealers - and I didn't want to significantly increase that.

Ferrari didn't really get a consideration. Much as I liked my 360, a 430 at the same kind of price as the 650 just doesn't add up for me, and although I'm sure they're great cars I think 458s are massively overpriced.

I would have liked to try something different the second time around but the 650 ticked all the boxes the first time and I couldn't really find anything that compared for the same money. They are insanely good value.

Thanks for the response - starting to get a few thumbs up for the 650. Its interesting that there seems to be a split between owners and those with direct experience of them (positive) and those who see the marque and shudder… Is it that the 650 happens to be the car Mclaren “got right”? I’m certainly leaning towards one! Interesting point re 458 BTW - They do seem pricey and while I do love the look, I fear that if I do the 650 it might then be underwhelming afterwards!

[cradock]

Nero77 said:

Over the last 5/6 years I've be fortunate enough to own: Ferrari 360, 430, 355; Lamborghini Gallardo Performante; 991.1 GT3 and lastly my current car a Mantis Green 650S Spider.

I've always been a Ferrari man and I did over 25k miles in my 430 over 3 years. If I were to buy one again it would be a 360 though - better sounding and I think looks better.

Been so anti Mclaren for years but the 650 is by far and away the best car I've owned. There is not - and I think I've said this before - anything to touch it for the money. What swayed it for me? Partly the roof down/carbon tub element but more importantly, the back up of leading independents who can fix things at reasonable cost rather than OEM replacements. Take a bow V Engineering.

The 650's suspension is incredible - more comfortable in soft settings than my Volvo (but still riding flat around corners). The speed is crazy and I think the sound is great, though I do have a Larini system.

I've had mine for coming up for a year and done 10k miles in it. Road trips, corner shop trips, track days. Not missed a beat. Issues - roof mechanism needed to be reset, the plastic catch for the fuel filler cap broke and a lazy door latch (which I replaced to soft close). Service was £480 from VE.

Only main issue with them is the suspension actuators (or accumulators) which need replacing - but VE offer alternatives which can be repaired rather than replaced over time. My car has these fitted (taken care of by garage I bought from as they failed on my test drive).

If you have any particular questions just ask...!

Thankyou for the reply! The points about V-Engineering are especially helpful. For the Ferrari I’ve tended to fit Hill parts in preference to OEM in many cases - especially things like track rod ends which the 612 seems to eat as a snack. An issue I’d previously read about was Mclaren getting sniffy about non-OEM parts and actively blocking Indies, but that I may have misread or may simply have been conjecture. Nevertheless, thanks for confirming that not only are there some good indies, but that there are reasonable parts availability with choices.

Seems the 650 is pulling ahead - now for the fun bit of looking for one!

[davek_964]

cradock said:

Thanks for the response - starting to get a few thumbs up for the 650. Its interesting that there seems to be a split between owners and those with direct experience of them (positive) and those who see the marque and shudder… Is it that the 650 happens to be the car Mclaren “got right”? I’m certainly leaning towards one! Interesting point re 458 BTW - They do seem pricey and while I do love the look, I fear that if I do the 650 it might then be underwhelming afterwards!

McLaren Guildford and V are both very positive about the 650s - they do seem to be pretty good example of McLaren's. However, I think the opinion of non-owners Vs owners has always been there for McLaren in general and it's a bit odd. Many many owners replace their McLaren with..... Another one. Some on the owners group own multiple.

PH does seem to have improved massively over the last year or so but it has previously been very anti McLaren, almost entirely by people who've never owned one (but know a mate's brothers girlfriends hairdressers dad who has nothing but problems with one....).

I was very pleasantly surprised with my first one and similar with my current one. I did have a recurring air brake fault on this one soon after buying but V fixed that in about an hour while I waited.

[belfry]

I had a 612 some years ago. I now have a 456 manual and a FF, so the model either side of the 612. I would suggest that you think about moving up to the FF after the 612. More power, feels more robust and a better gearbox (unless you have a manual 612?)

I was warned off McLarens by my finance broker when I was looking recently. He said that their funders are reluctant to fund McLarens at the moment. He works for a very well known finance broker specialising in sports and prestige cars.

I ended up with a FF, although I was intrigued to try a McLaren this time but the finance issue made this unviable for me.