At what point are you affluent enough to buy a supercar?
Discussion
Evening all. Happy Friday and all that.
Posting this here as this is where I assume most of the people capable of or present owners of supercars hang out.
Not sure whether this has been asked before, but I suppose it's a natural thought when onlookers see someone driving a supercar to briefly wonder what sort of financial situation these people are in.
Like anything in life, there'll be a spread: everything from those living in their childhood bedroom with the supercar on the drive next to their parents' MPV to the person who wouldn't bat an eyelid at the £30k bill their fourth supercar has just thrown. Those are presumably the extremes, but I'm curious about the approximate median position of the owners of these kind of cars.
So, assuming you're eying up a supercar purchase. How would you purchase it? If there were a finance element of the payment, what kind of figure per month would you be comfortable with and have minimal impact on the rest of your finances?, Or I guess a better way would be if you were to consolidate the entire running costs of the car into one figure, do you measure that against your net income figure i.e. no more than x% of my net monthly income on a car?
Let's say that same car throws a £30k bill. Are you wiring the money immediately? Do you need to liquidate some funds? Are you considering taking a loan to cover or even selling the car?
Hope this doesn't come across as, "Oi, you Ferrari drivers... how do you afford that?" I'm just curious as to what level you felt you needed to get to before you were happy with the potentially very high costs of running a supercar.
Appreciate any responses, and hoping it doesn't turn into a turbocharged wallet off between you 6'7, stair dominating powerhouses of industry
Posting this here as this is where I assume most of the people capable of or present owners of supercars hang out.
Not sure whether this has been asked before, but I suppose it's a natural thought when onlookers see someone driving a supercar to briefly wonder what sort of financial situation these people are in.
Like anything in life, there'll be a spread: everything from those living in their childhood bedroom with the supercar on the drive next to their parents' MPV to the person who wouldn't bat an eyelid at the £30k bill their fourth supercar has just thrown. Those are presumably the extremes, but I'm curious about the approximate median position of the owners of these kind of cars.
So, assuming you're eying up a supercar purchase. How would you purchase it? If there were a finance element of the payment, what kind of figure per month would you be comfortable with and have minimal impact on the rest of your finances?, Or I guess a better way would be if you were to consolidate the entire running costs of the car into one figure, do you measure that against your net income figure i.e. no more than x% of my net monthly income on a car?
Let's say that same car throws a £30k bill. Are you wiring the money immediately? Do you need to liquidate some funds? Are you considering taking a loan to cover or even selling the car?
Hope this doesn't come across as, "Oi, you Ferrari drivers... how do you afford that?" I'm just curious as to what level you felt you needed to get to before you were happy with the potentially very high costs of running a supercar.
Appreciate any responses, and hoping it doesn't turn into a turbocharged wallet off between you 6'7, stair dominating powerhouses of industry
happy friday to you too
it honestly wasn't a money-led decision
my neighbour asked me if my new 911 was my dream car and, great car though it is, my answer was a bit of a mumble
so i JFDI
no regrets whatsoever, apart from not doing it sooner, but then supercars were a bit crap back then
typical bloody useless o/t pistonheads answer, hey !
it honestly wasn't a money-led decision
my neighbour asked me if my new 911 was my dream car and, great car though it is, my answer was a bit of a mumble
so i JFDI
no regrets whatsoever, apart from not doing it sooner, but then supercars were a bit crap back then
typical bloody useless o/t pistonheads answer, hey !
Strong question and I can only answer for me naturally.
In 2002 I picked up about £8k redundancy money when I had already found another better paid job so that money was a real bonus and my wife and I both agreed (genuinely, God bless her) that I should buy a car just for me. She likes to look at my cars but has zero interest in travelling in them. So, simple decisions from that perspective. 2 seats is all I ever want for me and my son who now shares our driving adventures.
Thus, I bought a 4 speed, live axle Caterham for every penny of that £8k which I drove for a while and traded in for an Elise 160 Sport to a TVR Tuscan to a TVR Sagaris to a manual R8 V8 to a (and now it gets really interesting) Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera that I found in Italy and was LHD. That was a bit of a jump from the R8 financially but I tightened my belt and bought it.
That was 2016 and in 2020 literally days before lockdown 1,I traded it for a Huracan Performante which I still own. Each step was tough financially but I've never borrowed a penny and have always owned each car outright. I have never taken mechanical insurance policies either.
I have bought very, very carefully and I think the biggest, unexpected bill was for about £6k for hydraulic hose replacements on the SL or maybe misting front shocks on the R8. However, I made such a fuss that Audi covered 50% of that cost.
I don't want to tempt fate but I've not had any horrendous issues in that circa 20 years of fun and I have 'driven' every single one of those cars to Le Mans, the Ring, Spa, Imola and so on.
Biggest costs? Insurance and fuel.
Btw, I am not wealthy and don't have cash to burn and I really hope this doesn't sound Mr. Smug t
t.
Hope this is useful.
In 2002 I picked up about £8k redundancy money when I had already found another better paid job so that money was a real bonus and my wife and I both agreed (genuinely, God bless her) that I should buy a car just for me. She likes to look at my cars but has zero interest in travelling in them. So, simple decisions from that perspective. 2 seats is all I ever want for me and my son who now shares our driving adventures.
Thus, I bought a 4 speed, live axle Caterham for every penny of that £8k which I drove for a while and traded in for an Elise 160 Sport to a TVR Tuscan to a TVR Sagaris to a manual R8 V8 to a (and now it gets really interesting) Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera that I found in Italy and was LHD. That was a bit of a jump from the R8 financially but I tightened my belt and bought it.
That was 2016 and in 2020 literally days before lockdown 1,I traded it for a Huracan Performante which I still own. Each step was tough financially but I've never borrowed a penny and have always owned each car outright. I have never taken mechanical insurance policies either.
I have bought very, very carefully and I think the biggest, unexpected bill was for about £6k for hydraulic hose replacements on the SL or maybe misting front shocks on the R8. However, I made such a fuss that Audi covered 50% of that cost.
I don't want to tempt fate but I've not had any horrendous issues in that circa 20 years of fun and I have 'driven' every single one of those cars to Le Mans, the Ring, Spa, Imola and so on.
Biggest costs? Insurance and fuel.
Btw, I am not wealthy and don't have cash to burn and I really hope this doesn't sound Mr. Smug t
t.Hope this is useful.
johnnyreggae said:
And I suspect Fast Eddie's post is not atypical of the the vast majority of owners of nice cars here with very few powerhouses or whatever you think they are
Yes, thank you. I think some that post, and this is not a criticism, are wanting to start their journey with a Ferrari or a McLaren which is a big step.
Don't get me wrong, pre children, I drove all kinds of rubbish but they were worth so little if something went wrong I could either fix it myself or throw it away and start again.
I … have no idea in truth. I flit back and forth between silly cars and sensible cars.
The Griff was run alongside the stbox knackered Fiesta.
The Sagaris and Integrale was run alongside a Rover 25.
The 308GTS morphed into a V8 Diesel Merc ML.
SLK55 along side E class estate.
The 4C alongside a diesel Cayenne.
The F12 gave way to the st box slk280 for cheap summer fun.
Now a Macan Turbo has randomly appeared alongside the stter slk and a Yaris & Hilux for the biz.
Basically - we’re random. The Donkeys were bought - cos Magnum (obvs) and the F12 is the best incarnation of the classic Berlinetta line which I consider to be the epitome of motoring.
Sorry, probably not much help.
The Griff was run alongside the s
tbox knackered Fiesta.The Sagaris and Integrale was run alongside a Rover 25.
The 308GTS morphed into a V8 Diesel Merc ML.
SLK55 along side E class estate.
The 4C alongside a diesel Cayenne.
The F12 gave way to the s
t box slk280 for cheap summer fun.Now a Macan Turbo has randomly appeared alongside the s
tter slk and a Yaris & Hilux for the biz.Basically - we’re random. The Donkeys were bought - cos Magnum (obvs) and the F12 is the best incarnation of the classic Berlinetta line which I consider to be the epitome of motoring.
Sorry, probably not much help.
Bought a supercar when I was paid 4x car value (pre-tax) and actually thought I was pushing it. If a 30k bill came up I'd be pissed but guess you'd have to pay it. I'd be more worried that wife would spend another 30k on jewellery in revenge. I think really you need to not care about usage costs at all to enjoy using a car without worrying.
rawenghey said:
At what point are you affluent enough to buy a supercar?
When you can afford to run it.I've always wanted a Ferrari. There are Ferraris that I could buy for cash tomorrow. Would I do it? Not a chance! One big bill outside the scope of regular servicing and I'm screwed!!
I was earning 8k a month after tax. I put down 50k deposit and was paying £1100 a month on finance for a 991.2 manual gt3. 2 year Porsche warranty. 2 year service intervals. It went up in value. Very cheap car to run and I can drive the pants off it.
My friends who earn less than me pay more than my finance and insurance and tax cost in childcare every month
My friends who earn less than me pay more than my finance and insurance and tax cost in childcare every month
I guess it starts with what ‘you’ call a supercar..
I think if you can pay cash and buy it without worrying about depreciation through piling on miles, stone chips, servicing, road trips track days etc, then you’re ready financially.
Worst thing to do is buy your dream and then be afraid to use it for whatever reason.
Out of warranty buying, i’d say, over 2 - 3 years (tours, petrol, track days, tires, brakes, servicing, depreciation etc)
R8, AMG GTR, 540 etc £30-40k
458, 720, Huracan, gt3 etc not much more really because of the depreciation curve but one large bork and you’ll jump £15k so a riskier option that you’d want that amount there from the start for worry free miles imo.
Aventador, 822, gt3rs.. £60-80k
When you get to spending over 500k its stranger as you most likely have a car that’ll increase in value (though harder to say in todays tipping market) but this comes at a cost of not using the car which imo is a pointless, so piling on miles with worry free concern means you dont even need to think about what its costing or at least happy for the experience to cost you north of £100k a year, not to say it will cost that, more that you wouldnt care if it did, just to give people a perspective on the difference of attitude toward money at that end.
I was talking to an online poker game owner the other day, he flew around europe in his own jet & in 1 week he bought 3 x Koenigsegg, 3 x Bugatti, 1 x La Farrari, he’s not really that concerned what they’re costing or losing, its all relative.
Equaly, if you buy on finance and are happy to loose the amount outlined inc. Interest paid over 3 years then fair enough, drawback is track days and excess mileages are out and it would never be owned by you, i couldn’t call myself an owner this way and thats important to me.
I think if you can pay cash and buy it without worrying about depreciation through piling on miles, stone chips, servicing, road trips track days etc, then you’re ready financially.
Worst thing to do is buy your dream and then be afraid to use it for whatever reason.
Out of warranty buying, i’d say, over 2 - 3 years (tours, petrol, track days, tires, brakes, servicing, depreciation etc)
R8, AMG GTR, 540 etc £30-40k
458, 720, Huracan, gt3 etc not much more really because of the depreciation curve but one large bork and you’ll jump £15k so a riskier option that you’d want that amount there from the start for worry free miles imo.
Aventador, 822, gt3rs.. £60-80k
When you get to spending over 500k its stranger as you most likely have a car that’ll increase in value (though harder to say in todays tipping market) but this comes at a cost of not using the car which imo is a pointless, so piling on miles with worry free concern means you dont even need to think about what its costing or at least happy for the experience to cost you north of £100k a year, not to say it will cost that, more that you wouldnt care if it did, just to give people a perspective on the difference of attitude toward money at that end.
I was talking to an online poker game owner the other day, he flew around europe in his own jet & in 1 week he bought 3 x Koenigsegg, 3 x Bugatti, 1 x La Farrari, he’s not really that concerned what they’re costing or losing, its all relative.
Equaly, if you buy on finance and are happy to loose the amount outlined inc. Interest paid over 3 years then fair enough, drawback is track days and excess mileages are out and it would never be owned by you, i couldn’t call myself an owner this way and thats important to me.
3 simple rules on my journey.
1 Always pay cash, no finance.
2 Cars are normally a depreciating asset so maintaining some sort of residual value is not a concern (the cash is notionally sunk until the car is sold) which means piling on the miles and smiles is not an issue.
3 Self insure for the maintenance by salting away the equivalent of the warranty cost each year for the inevitable big bill. Been doing it for years and am still (touch wood) ahead.
1 Always pay cash, no finance.
2 Cars are normally a depreciating asset so maintaining some sort of residual value is not a concern (the cash is notionally sunk until the car is sold) which means piling on the miles and smiles is not an issue.
3 Self insure for the maintenance by salting away the equivalent of the warranty cost each year for the inevitable big bill. Been doing it for years and am still (touch wood) ahead.
^
I think this is a good summary of how to approach ‘Supercar’ ownership, and pretty much reflects my own experience. The only additional thoughts are that if the car is young enough to have a manufacturer’s extended warranty I have spent the money on that.
I now have a 11yo car, so have set aside a nominal £10k pot and plan to add the equivalent of a warranty to that each year moving forward, this should in theory cover me for most eventualities.
The best advice from above though is buy it to drive it. The joy and experiences are literally priceless. Good luck on your journey.
I think this is a good summary of how to approach ‘Supercar’ ownership, and pretty much reflects my own experience. The only additional thoughts are that if the car is young enough to have a manufacturer’s extended warranty I have spent the money on that.
I now have a 11yo car, so have set aside a nominal £10k pot and plan to add the equivalent of a warranty to that each year moving forward, this should in theory cover me for most eventualities.
The best advice from above though is buy it to drive it. The joy and experiences are literally priceless. Good luck on your journey.
Age also plays a big factor here IMHO.
At the age of 32, and by pure fluke; Mrs Z and I found ourselves with a reasonable chunk of equity in our house.
So we sold up, went travelling for 9 months, purchased 1/4 acre beachfront lot on a Caribbean island and then a Diablo SV when we returned home!
Although both those purchases turned out to be fantastic investments, again that was by pure fluke and (certainly in the case of the car) not something I’d expected.
At the time I didn’t really consider depreciation, maintenance - really anything like that - I was so naive back then I didn’t even get a PPI done.. and the Diablo did bite me with a pretty hefty 1st service bill as a consequence!
Looking back you could say we were reckless and maybe we were, but it actually didn’t matter - we had plenty of time to right the ship if it had all gone pear-shaped. As you might have guessed there were no kids to consider either !
Carpe Diem and all that …
But now I’m in my 50’s I would be much more risk-averse and no way even consider those sort of moves made 20 years ago.
And even then I would never have considered finance to purchase a supercar.
At the age of 32, and by pure fluke; Mrs Z and I found ourselves with a reasonable chunk of equity in our house.
So we sold up, went travelling for 9 months, purchased 1/4 acre beachfront lot on a Caribbean island and then a Diablo SV when we returned home!
Although both those purchases turned out to be fantastic investments, again that was by pure fluke and (certainly in the case of the car) not something I’d expected.
At the time I didn’t really consider depreciation, maintenance - really anything like that - I was so naive back then I didn’t even get a PPI done.. and the Diablo did bite me with a pretty hefty 1st service bill as a consequence!
Looking back you could say we were reckless and maybe we were, but it actually didn’t matter - we had plenty of time to right the ship if it had all gone pear-shaped. As you might have guessed there were no kids to consider either !
Carpe Diem and all that …
But now I’m in my 50’s I would be much more risk-averse and no way even consider those sort of moves made 20 years ago.
And even then I would never have considered finance to purchase a supercar.
I’ve always paid cash for my fun cars as it lets you use it exactly how you want to (I have financed family barges but that’s fair enough given the generally mundane use case!).
I ran an R8 V10 and V12VS out of warranty for a time and luckily both were solid cars, current McLaren has been under warranty since I’ve owned it and that’s been a good decision. If you’re worried about a 10k bill tho then I’d say owning that car would be a negative experience as you could never fully enjoy it. I see the warranty as fixed cost motoring as on a McLaren at least it’s v comprehensive. I’ve had some terrific memories over the years driving the above cars so well worth it for me but I sleep easy at night which helps.
I ran an R8 V10 and V12VS out of warranty for a time and luckily both were solid cars, current McLaren has been under warranty since I’ve owned it and that’s been a good decision. If you’re worried about a 10k bill tho then I’d say owning that car would be a negative experience as you could never fully enjoy it. I see the warranty as fixed cost motoring as on a McLaren at least it’s v comprehensive. I’ve had some terrific memories over the years driving the above cars so well worth it for me but I sleep easy at night which helps.
Aventador 700 said:
I guess it starts with what ‘you’ call a supercar.
Absolutely.In my case, it would be a Ferrari 348 or 360. A supercar in its day but probably not regarded as one now. The long term average running costs are affordable but these tend to consist of lower routine running costs averaged up by a large, occasional bork. It's the risk of that bork coming too soon in ownership, before I've built the surplus to pay for it, that puts me off.
It's for the same reason that I'm currently looking at a four year old BMW 440i and not a ten year old Maserati GranTurismo.
MitchT said:
Aventador 700 said:
I guess it starts with what ‘you’ call a supercar.
Absolutely.In my case, it would be a Ferrari 348 or 360. A supercar in its day but probably not regarded as one now. The long term average running costs are affordable but these tend to consist of lower routine running costs averaged up by a large, occasional bork. It's the risk of that bork coming too soon in ownership, before I've built the surplus to pay for it, that puts me off.
It's for the same reason that I'm currently looking at a four year old BMW 440i and not a ten year old Maserati GranTurismo.
Edited by Aventador 700 on Saturday 29th October 11:29
Aventador 700 said:
This is a perfect example of not ‘affluent enough’ though, sorry, not trying to be rude to you but if losing the amounts outlined bothers you to the degree you buy an older supercar to just to be safe, then money is dominating your decision too much, also older classic supercars are incredibly mileage sensitive, ferraris even more so, this equates to very little usage and they become garage queens, fine if thats your idea of supercar ownership but its certainly not mine.
I agree totally. In my earlier post in the thread I eluded to the fact that I don't consider myself affluent enough by offering some of the considerations that might be a part of the "are you affluent enough" discussion.Edited by Aventador 700 on Saturday 29th October 11:29
That said, it's not so much a case of "buying an older supercar just to be safe", more that I just prefer the older ones. To me they look nicer, sound nicer and are significantly slower, meaning you can feel like you're stretching the car's abilities more of the time. Modern supercars are too tech heavy for my liking and too fast to be able to get your money's worth enough of the time, so I'd always go for an older one, no matter what my financial position was.
MitchT said:
Aventador 700 said:
This is a perfect example of not ‘affluent enough’ though, sorry, not trying to be rude to you but if losing the amounts outlined bothers you to the degree you buy an older supercar to just to be safe, then money is dominating your decision too much, also older classic supercars are incredibly mileage sensitive, ferraris even more so, this equates to very little usage and they become garage queens, fine if thats your idea of supercar ownership but its certainly not mine.
I agree totally. In my earlier post in the thread I eluded to the fact that I don't consider myself affluent enough by offering some of the considerations that might be a part of the "are you affluent enough" discussion.Edited by Aventador 700 on Saturday 29th October 11:29
That said, it's not so much a case of "buying an older supercar just to be safe", more that I just prefer the older ones. To me they look nicer, sound nicer and are significantly slower, meaning you can feel like you're stretching the car's abilities more of the time. Modern supercars are too tech heavy for my liking and too fast to be able to get your money's worth enough of the time, so I'd always go for an older one, no matter what my financial position was.
Buying an older car for those reasons are good ones, though not supercar, i have an RS500 and absolutely love driving it for all the reasons you state, not a supercar slayer in its day but would certainly keep up, not a garage queen either, gets used.
GranTurismo is a lovely thing btw, proper rear seats that can be used, sound to die for, reliable and comfortable, in no way does it even feel like an old supercar though, not even 355/360 levels, the Gransport (4200) was a peach though, i’d have another as a junior supercar
ANOpax said:
3 simple rules on my journey.
1 Always pay cash, no finance.
2 Cars are normally a depreciating asset so maintaining some sort of residual value is not a concern (the cash is notionally sunk until the car is sold) which means piling on the miles and smiles is not an issue.
3 Self insure for the maintenance by salting away the equivalent of the warranty cost each year for the inevitable big bill. Been doing it for years and am still (touch wood) ahead.
Spot on 1 Always pay cash, no finance.
2 Cars are normally a depreciating asset so maintaining some sort of residual value is not a concern (the cash is notionally sunk until the car is sold) which means piling on the miles and smiles is not an issue.
3 Self insure for the maintenance by salting away the equivalent of the warranty cost each year for the inevitable big bill. Been doing it for years and am still (touch wood) ahead.
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