Euro 7 dropped, does this help supercars?

Euro 7 dropped, does this help supercars?

Author
Discussion

Soleith

Original Poster:

527 posts

96 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
Reading that Euro 7 emissions rules will be dropped/watered down and the impact for petrol cars will be little/no change now. Does this help supercar manufacturers make a last hurrah of mega-engined beasts before the ICE only ban comes in?

andrew

10,090 posts

199 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
Soleith said:
Reading that Euro 7 emissions rules will be dropped/watered down and the impact for petrol cars will be little/no change now. Does this help supercar manufacturers make a last hurrah of mega-engined beasts before the ICE only ban comes in?
do you have a reading link please ?

Soleith

Original Poster:

527 posts

96 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
andrew said:
do you have a reading link please ?
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/eu-plans-ditch-new-euro-7-regulations-deemed-too-costly

(warning, guardian) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/2...

https://www.politico.eu/article/draft-eu-law-gives...

Caddyshack

11,826 posts

213 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
Those articles use words of "could" and "draft" that doesn't say dropped to me.

andrew

10,090 posts

199 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
Soleith said:
andrew said:
do you have a reading link please ?
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/eu-plans-ditch-new-euro-7-regulations-deemed-too-costly

(warning, guardian) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/2...

https://www.politico.eu/article/draft-eu-law-gives...
thumbup

D4rez

1,618 posts

63 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
Soleith said:
Reading that Euro 7 emissions rules will be dropped/watered down and the impact for petrol cars will be little/no change now. Does this help supercar manufacturers make a last hurrah of mega-engined beasts before the ICE only ban comes in?
Yes and no, gives them a hope of continuing with combustion engines till the ban. The proposed regs wouldn’t have allowed any performance engine to be feasible without massive cost. They still have to comply with fleet CO2 emissions (more downsizing and hybrids) and the tailpipe sound reductions coming in a couple of years.

emix

152 posts

124 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
Expected. Just as the ICE ban isn't actually a ban, only the position the EU commission is taking in its negotiations with countries. It will be watered down significantly. They already started shifting the goal from full electric to technology neutral but CO2 neutral. We shall see.

D4rez

1,618 posts

63 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
emix said:
Expected. Just as the ICE ban isn't actually a ban, only the position the EU commission is taking in its negotiations with countries. It will be watered down significantly. They already started shifting the goal from full electric to technology neutral but CO2 neutral. We shall see.
But nonetheless zero tailpipe… which leaves you with an EV or a Hydrogen Fuel cell

SVJBalboni

526 posts

61 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
The EU7 been dropped or watered down doesn't mean much anyways. Most manufacturers are already planning to go EV/hybrid because consumer buying habits are changing and companies need to be more more eco friendly. You also have countries outside of the EU like India and China which have their own emission regulations that manufacturers have to adapt to.

Caddyshack

11,826 posts

213 months

Monday 24th October 2022
quotequote all
D4rez said:
emix said:
Expected. Just as the ICE ban isn't actually a ban, only the position the EU commission is taking in its negotiations with countries. It will be watered down significantly. They already started shifting the goal from full electric to technology neutral but CO2 neutral. We shall see.
But nonetheless zero tailpipe… which leaves you with an EV or a Hydrogen Fuel cell
Side pipes could make a come back :-0

emix

152 posts

124 months

Tuesday 25th October 2022
quotequote all
D4rez said:
But nonetheless zero tailpipe… which leaves you with an EV or a Hydrogen Fuel cell
No it's not. They said tech neutral not zero tailpipe. That means synthetic fuels are go. Also they've only just started negotiations and already several countries are opposed to a full on ICE ban. There's also been some reasonable voices in the EU parliament lately on this topic, explaining that this needs to work for everybody and not just the city types, also the infrastructure is severely lacking in many places and will not be built by 2035. Energy issues etc etc.

Kawasicki

13,470 posts

242 months

Tuesday 25th October 2022
quotequote all
SVJBalboni said:
The EU7 been dropped or watered down doesn't mean much anyways. Most manufacturers are already planning to go EV/hybrid because consumer buying habits are changing and companies need to be more more eco friendly. You also have countries outside of the EU like India and China which have their own emission regulations that manufacturers have to adapt to.
It actually does mean a lot. Whole car lines have already been dropped from manufacturer plans because the existing EU7 requirements made those unprofitable to develop. This usually means small cars.

Larger cars have already been developed, but weigh much, much more that they normally would have.

D4rez

1,618 posts

63 months

Tuesday 25th October 2022
quotequote all
emix said:
D4rez said:
But nonetheless zero tailpipe… which leaves you with an EV or a Hydrogen Fuel cell
No it's not. They said tech neutral not zero tailpipe. That means synthetic fuels are go. Also they've only just started negotiations and already several countries are opposed to a full on ICE ban. There's also been some reasonable voices in the EU parliament lately on this topic, explaining that this needs to work for everybody and not just the city types, also the infrastructure is severely lacking in many places and will not be built by 2035. Energy issues etc etc.
Not correct - they’ve said to the working groups zero tailpipe emissions. They have added a non binding clause to explore sustainable fuels but only if they’re better well to wheel on CO2 Will they be allowed. Lastly they’ve passed the ban in EU Parliament and whilst they need to consult member states, it has passed the Council and Parliament with minimal opposition. From here it is very unlikely to change in substance

CloudStuff

3,848 posts

111 months

Tuesday 25th October 2022
quotequote all
Wouldn't matter anyway, as we've left the EU and taken back control.

Haven't we??

:-)

emix

152 posts

124 months

Tuesday 25th October 2022
quotequote all
D4rez said:
Not correct - they’ve said to the working groups zero tailpipe emissions. They have added a non binding clause to explore sustainable fuels but only if they’re better well to wheel on CO2 Will they be allowed. Lastly they’ve passed the ban in EU Parliament and whilst they need to consult member states, it has passed the Council and Parliament with minimal opposition. From here it is very unlikely to change in substance
The announced "ban" isn't a ban it's what they want to implement but as you should know all countries must agree, and some most definitely do not.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-engine-ban-spli...

"We have already decided that we want to make it possible for cars with CO2-neutral technologies — with e-fuels — to be registered after 2035,"

https://www.rfi.fr/en/business-and-tech/20220629-e...

He affirmed the EU body's willingness to be open-minded to other technologies -- like synthetic fuels, which are also referred to as e-fuels.

"We are technology neutral. What we want are zero-emission cars," he explained.

The use of synthetic fuels is CO2 neutral and that is what the end goal seems to be. We shall see, but I don't think it will be feasible to ban ICE in 2035. Pragmatism will eventually prevail.





Edited by emix on Tuesday 25th October 18:27

GTRene

17,776 posts

231 months

Tuesday 25th October 2022
quotequote all
CloudStuff said:
Wouldn't matter anyway, as we've left the EU and taken back control.

Haven't we??

:-)
on paper...
I quess as long as the City of Londen (money/banks) stays there, you are always in the EU euh One World Government... just like Swiss, they will never let you go, as long as the Multinationals/Globalist/D-elite can use the UK sadly.

But... we are even in worse situations in the Netherlands, I'm praying for Nexit (a real one) but thats gonna take some years... they are not ready with us and to many Dutch people sleep/sheep.

Euro 7 Euro EU lol.

D4rez

1,618 posts

63 months

Friday 28th October 2022
quotequote all
emix said:
D4rez said:
Not correct - they’ve said to the working groups zero tailpipe emissions. They have added a non binding clause to explore sustainable fuels but only if they’re better well to wheel on CO2 Will they be allowed. Lastly they’ve passed the ban in EU Parliament and whilst they need to consult member states, it has passed the Council and Parliament with minimal opposition. From here it is very unlikely to change in substance
The announced "ban" isn't a ban it's what they want to implement but as you should know all countries must agree, and some most definitely do not.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-engine-ban-spli...

"We have already decided that we want to make it possible for cars with CO2-neutral technologies — with e-fuels — to be registered after 2035,"

https://www.rfi.fr/en/business-and-tech/20220629-e...

He affirmed the EU body's willingness to be open-minded to other technologies -- like synthetic fuels, which are also referred to as e-fuels.

"We are technology neutral. What we want are zero-emission cars," he explained.

The use of synthetic fuels is CO2 neutral and that is what the end goal seems to be. We shall see, but I don't think it will be feasible to ban ICE in 2035. Pragmatism will eventually prevail.





Edited by emix on Tuesday 25th October 18:27
FYI, they all agreed and the ban was announced today as fully ratified