Have Koenigsegg gone mad?
Discussion
Does it really make any sense to take a dual clutch gearbox and give it a H pattern interface and (or all things) a clutch - and even artificially make it possible to stall the engine? See https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40940671/koenig... ?
There is much criticism of artificial engine or exhaust noises - isn't this at least as bad?
There is much criticism of artificial engine or exhaust noises - isn't this at least as bad?
What a stunningly beautiful car that is. The early Koenigsegg cars were all amazing to look at and it is great to see this design again. I love their wild manufacturing style; they seem to come up with a wild concept and build it because they can, rather than because there is any pressing need for it.
I have to admit I really don't see the issue. Paddles make sense for outright speed and performance, but if you wanted that I think you'd be spending your multiple millions on an altogether more focused vehicle.
This is a way to have a bit of theatre and bolt around with a big stupid smile on your face, with a gearbox that can be adapted easily to cope with the car's ferocious power than a straightforward manual but still gives you a bit more engagement than just pulling paddles. Can't see the problem.
For the kind of people who buy these vehicles, this is a curio. They have multiple other cars, with multiple other types of gearbox.
Also in direct relation to your question - no, they haven't *gone* mad. They've always been mad. That's why they're so great!
This is a way to have a bit of theatre and bolt around with a big stupid smile on your face, with a gearbox that can be adapted easily to cope with the car's ferocious power than a straightforward manual but still gives you a bit more engagement than just pulling paddles. Can't see the problem.
For the kind of people who buy these vehicles, this is a curio. They have multiple other cars, with multiple other types of gearbox.
Also in direct relation to your question - no, they haven't *gone* mad. They've always been mad. That's why they're so great!
Personally, I think I like it and it's probably a good idea. It brings something new/different to the market, even if ultimately it may be a dead-end and technically over complicated.
If I had the money, (which I don't
), I'd rather pay for this than yet another limited edition speedster, such as the, Aston Martin Speedster, Bentley Bacalar or McLaren Elva etc.
If I had the money, (which I don't
), I'd rather pay for this than yet another limited edition speedster, such as the, Aston Martin Speedster, Bentley Bacalar or McLaren Elva etc.It's incredible, typical PH to moan about something like this. I wish All auto sports cars had it tbh.
Watch this video - https://youtu.be/an_7NbRJ0p8 - it's mind blowing
Watch this video - https://youtu.be/an_7NbRJ0p8 - it's mind blowing
Edited by thecremeegg on Sunday 21st August 11:57
bcr5784 said:
Does it really make any sense to take a dual clutch gearbox and give it a H pattern interface and (or all things) a clutch - and even artificially make it possible to stall the engine? See https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40940671/koenig... ?
There is much criticism of artificial engine or exhaust noises - isn't this at least as bad?
I think the gearbox is an absolutely fantastic bit of engineering - the fact in different modes you get different ratios is the icing on the cake. Those fortunate enough to be able to afford one is able to chose how to drive depending how they feel on the day.There is much criticism of artificial engine or exhaust noises - isn't this at least as bad?
I don't see it as that artificial.
From the sound of things the driver has direct control over the clutch engagement and disengagement - you are letting the clutch in and out with your left foot as in a traditional manual, the only difference is that (a) the connection is electronic rather than purely physical and (b) on a gearchange, the clutch you engage will be the other one from the one you disengaged (assuming you are changing to an adjacent gear). While an electronic linkage can alter the relationship between input and output, it doesn't have to, and if they are simply mapped 1:1 then there's not much real difference.
The gearchange part is artificial in that you're not moving cogs, just confirming which gear you want next - and most of the time the requested gear will already be engaged on the other shaft of the DSG, so nothing is actually happening when you move the lever, you just disengage one clutch and then re-engage the other. It does however make it easier to select any gear rather than having to change sequentially.
Overall I think the ability to get nearly all the control/engagement/fun of a manual while still being able to have a paddleshift for track and a full auto for traffic seems like a win.
samoht said:
It does however make it easier to select any gear rather than having to change sequentially.
That I really don't get. To miss gears in a manual box you have to make 3 hand movements in 2 planes. While I'm not going to say that is difficult - it is far more "difficult" than repeatedly pulling a lever in one plane. And you'd have to skip more than the 4 gears it is possible to skip with a 3 plane manual to get close to matching the time a good conventional DCT can do it.To be honest I don't understand why anyone would find operating an electrical switch in an artificially created H pattern more satisfying than operating similar switches on paddles. Sure exposed gates do LOOK quite sexy, but that is the only reason I can see for having them.
bcr5784 said:
samoht said:
It does however make it easier to select any gear rather than having to change sequentially.
That I really don't get. To miss gears in a manual box you have to make 3 hand movements in 2 planes. While I'm not going to say that is difficult - it is far more "difficult" than repeatedly pulling a lever in one plane. And you'd have to skip more than the 4 gears it is possible to skip with a 3 plane manual to get close to matching the time a good conventional DCT can do it.To be honest I don't understand why anyone would find operating an electrical switch in an artificially created H pattern more satisfying than operating similar switches on paddles. Sure exposed gates do LOOK quite sexy, but that is the only reason I can see for having them.
I find repeated "paddling" a little unsatisfactory; you need to count the changes to make sure you know where you end up, and judge how quickly to repeat - too quick and it might not register, too slow and it'll be halfway through changing to the intermediate gear when you make your next request.
A single U-shape motion to go from, say, winding it out in 2nd straight to 6th to settle to a cruise is something I personally find easier than pulling a paddle four times in a row.
However I can see what you mean, making four paddle shifts isn't difficult if you're happy to take your time.
samoht said:
Fair enough point of view.
I find repeated "paddling" a little unsatisfactory; you need to count the changes to make sure you know where you end up, and judge how quickly to repeat - too quick and it might not register, too slow and it'll be halfway through changing to the intermediate gear when you make your next request.
A single U-shape motion to go from, say, winding it out in 2nd straight to 6th to settle to a cruise is something I personally find easier than pulling a paddle four times in a row.
However I can see what you mean, making four paddle shifts isn't difficult if you're happy to take your time.
Maybe for those of us brought up on motorbikes counting is just normal. While on some slushboxes the speed of response may be (IS) an issue - with a decent DCT (PDK and A110 in my experience - and probably many more) it isn't.I find repeated "paddling" a little unsatisfactory; you need to count the changes to make sure you know where you end up, and judge how quickly to repeat - too quick and it might not register, too slow and it'll be halfway through changing to the intermediate gear when you make your next request.
A single U-shape motion to go from, say, winding it out in 2nd straight to 6th to settle to a cruise is something I personally find easier than pulling a paddle four times in a row.
However I can see what you mean, making four paddle shifts isn't difficult if you're happy to take your time.
I offer my opinion as a German engineer - you cannot be more an engineer than a German engineer, can you?
From what I have seen in videos on YouTube, the execution of that automatic-manual gearbox is divine. First class, as always with Koenigsegg.
The possibilities from an engineering point of view are interesting. For example, that idea that the electronic control module notices the way you move the gearstick through the gate, and anticipates which gear you want to choose next, and prepares the gearbox accordingly. This reminds me of the possiblities of that Koenigsegg cylinder head with fully adjustable timing. A new technical solution has to offer "added value". On the other hand, could you do this pre-selection of gears with paddles that sense your fingers approaching?
On the topic of the simulation of the experience of a manual gearbox with a clutch pedal, I am unsure about this. The reason is that I see no need for this from an engineering point of view. It may enhance the driving experience, but does not contribute towards the solution (of how to go as fast as possible). This is compromised engineering. But frightfully well carried out.
From what I have seen in videos on YouTube, the execution of that automatic-manual gearbox is divine. First class, as always with Koenigsegg.
The possibilities from an engineering point of view are interesting. For example, that idea that the electronic control module notices the way you move the gearstick through the gate, and anticipates which gear you want to choose next, and prepares the gearbox accordingly. This reminds me of the possiblities of that Koenigsegg cylinder head with fully adjustable timing. A new technical solution has to offer "added value". On the other hand, could you do this pre-selection of gears with paddles that sense your fingers approaching?
On the topic of the simulation of the experience of a manual gearbox with a clutch pedal, I am unsure about this. The reason is that I see no need for this from an engineering point of view. It may enhance the driving experience, but does not contribute towards the solution (of how to go as fast as possible). This is compromised engineering. But frightfully well carried out.
Don’t really see the difference between a synthetic manual operating a DCT in the background and an electric car doing the same thing. You could certainly do it, fake the torque curve and engine noises. Maybe well enough that nobody could tell.
Would you want it if you knew it was fake? People accept engine sounds enhanced through the car speakers. They like having paddles which are almost superfluous on a competent automatic, but let them pretend they’re doing something important.
Would you want it if you knew it was fake? People accept engine sounds enhanced through the car speakers. They like having paddles which are almost superfluous on a competent automatic, but let them pretend they’re doing something important.
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