Baby Supercars

[up_shift]

Hi guys, So I'm looking for my next long-term project as I've badgered on about for a while. My trusty Boxster has been written off so seems a good time to get a stop gap to play with. But unfortunately just missed out on an Exige 420 final ed so am back on the search.

The market is mental at the moment - I was settled on a Huracan or Superleggera but both are priced over the odds at the moment so it's potentially worth waiting a while for the right one. Generally the cars I've been after have a 70-100k premium at the moment and my head just isn't OK paying that premium for something I'll keep - better spent on other things (it's a gauntlet, have a theory that the market will come down but not necesarly the exotics in the near future) Would love a 720s but again can't swallow a 145k price in the uk being $500k here. I know people who almost paid half that pre covid, others buy them, ride the finance and sell at a premium so the market is very propped up here. Anyway I digress.

Looking for something N/A, Mid engined, RWD and that I can take a spanner myself is also a big plus, I just enjoy it.

So I'm left with getting something a little older in a 360 (430's again have a 70k+ premium at the moment, even the 360s are a little overpriced at the moment but a few good buys pop up), an R8 v8 (reasonably priced) or something like a V8 vantage S (have had two v8v's, always loved them but ended up missing something more dynamic/raw so probably not the choice for me).

If a reasonably priced Gallardo comes up, It'l take my money but if not it seems like I'm leaning towards an V8 R8 or waiting. At least for a while. Have potentially sourced a rwd conversion kit from a friend who purchased them and never went ahead with it which should make things interesting, less so in an auto..

I guess my main question is probably for anyone that has modified one and loved it - can an R8 ever feel truly exciting?

Exhaust, some performance mods etc. Do they forever feel underpowered unless you start dabbling in turbo kits?


Seemingly mostly Autos available - have spent a bit of time in a Gallardo with E Gear, how does the 'Tronic compare I'd imagine it'd feel the same? (I don't actually dislike the single clutch action)

Does the V8 in R8 feel as toothless as I'm thinking it might compared to the V10?


The only R8 I've driven at any length was around a track back to back with a GTR and an Aventador and it just felt very sedate. I have a modified GTR that I'll probably keep - I can take the r8 being slower, but would want it to be 'fun'. Keen to hear from someone that's had a tweaked one to see if it's possible if that makes sense

[Trev450]

The V10 R8 is a good deal more of an occasion than the V8 imo. Go for either an S-tronic or a manual if you can find one.

[r o n n i e]

I’m a bit lost OP, you think the 720S is a baby supercar and could be picked up for half £145k, as in £70-80k, pre covid?

[200Plus Club]

You've answered your own questions. Having owned an R8 they aren't sedate when you are on it, and the V10 is another step up. Suggest you test drive a V10 and you could always buy a V10+ if you wanted to say it's 2wd.
My friends got the + with 610bhp and pdk box and you don't need anything much faster for road use to be fair.

Edited by 200Plus Club on Thursday 7th July 14:07

[Rotary Potato]

r o n n i e said:

I’m a bit lost OP, you think the 720S is a baby supercar and could be picked up for half £145k, as in £70-80k, pre covid?

My understanding of what he was saying is that the price difference between the UK and wherever in the world the OP is (somewhere that uses $ ... most likely USA, but could also be Australia or potentially many other places) has widened by 70-80k since pre-Covid times, and he begrudges paying what he sees as an overinflated margin.

I think the 720S was just an example he used to illustrate that point - and is the driving factor why he is looking for a 'baby supercar' (R8, V8V, etc.) rather than a 'proper supercar' (the aforementioned 720S).

I could have grabbed hold of the wrong end of the stick, and currently waving it round for all to see ... but that's how I read the OP.

[Shnozz]

Just popping in here as similar shoes (aside from being UK based). Interesting you mentioned the Exige as that is high on my list. However, that price also buys you a Gallardo or V10 R8, the latter of which just has never really done anything for me. Also coming from a Vantage.

[footsoldier]

I’ve owned an original Superleggera (paddles), a Huracan Evo RWD, an original manual V8 R8, and a paddle V10. And a GTR for a bit, and 3 Exige, inc a 350 and a 430, so can at least offer some experience for what it’s worth!

My opinion…SL is the most special feeling. An original Huracan is dull by comparison, more like an Audi until you get to the special editions which will be too expensive. SL would be my top choice

I don’t think a V10 R8 will ever feel as exciting although it is a great piece of machinery and if you want one car to do it all, you can’t go wrong. It’s hard not to want to get a ‘real supercar’ after a while though.

Original V8 R8 manual would get more of a vote for what you are looking for - less expensive, still not an out and out “supercar”, but not so fast or so assisted as newer stuff and you can really drive it properly and hard and it has fantastic balance, more so than V10.

I’d also say the GTR is a great thing, written off as ‘PlayStation’ by people who’ve never driven one, and much less so than most modern stuff. I still think about getting another one when I remember about them (like now!)

Edited by footsoldier on Thursday 7th July 16:51

[up_shift]

r o n n i e said:

I’m a bit lost OP, you think the 720S is a baby supercar and could be picked up for half £145k, as in £70-80k, pre covid?

Oh no sorry I'll clarify - the 720 would otherwise be my first choice - but in the time taken to get there that the cars that were available at $350k or so here in Australia, are $5-600k - for a car that is 150k (equivalent of $270 or so) in the UK. The UK is home and paying double just because - just doesn't sit right with me!

Rotary Potato said:

My understanding of what he was saying is that the price difference between the UK and wherever in the world the OP is (somewhere that uses $ ... most likely USA, but could also be Australia or potentially many other places) has widened by 70-80k since pre-Covid times, and he begrudges paying what he sees as an overinflated margin.

I think the 720S was just an example he used to illustrate that point - and is the driving factor why he is looking for a 'baby supercar' (R8, V8V, etc.) rather than a 'proper supercar' (the aforementioned 720S).

I could have grabbed hold of the wrong end of the stick, and currently waving it round for all to see ... but that's how I read the OP.

You've summarised it much more eloquently than I did, but that is exactly right on all points, thanks

Shnozz said:

Just popping in here as similar shoes (aside from being UK based). Interesting you mentioned the Exige as that is high on my list. However, that price also buys you a Gallardo or V10 R8, the latter of which just has never really done anything for me. Also coming from a Vantage.

You're not wrong, here the Exige 420 I was chasing sits up at $175k which is Gallardo money on a good day. R8 V10s command a premium strangely so would be looking at a little more.

Only the Mk1 R8 does it for me, I've never taken to the Mk2 - but the v10 is in most cases more than a Gallardo so the Lambo would take my money.

I find the Exige a hard choice, I like the out and out package but I think I'm after something that has a little more character and drama albeit slower around a track. I think I see them less as fun and more as serious track weapons.

Trev450 said:

The V10 R8 is a good deal more of an occasion than the V8 imo. Go for either an S-tronic or a manual if you can find one.

200Plus Club said:

You've answered your own questions. Having owned an R8 they aren't sedate when you are on it, and the V10 is another step up. Suggest you test drive a V10 and you could always buy a V10+ if you wanted to say it's 2wd.
My friends got the + with 610bhp and pdk box and you don't need anything much faster for road use to be fair.

Edited by 200Plus Club on Thursday 7th July 14:07

Thanks both - problem is the V10 + here starts to get very up there in price. early $200's for a Mk1 which is gallardo money and for a mk2 + you're talking superleggera money so that's where I'd be looking.

I suppose that's why I asked if the v8 is going to feel much less enjoyable as a comparison with a view of it being a stop gap until things are less mental.

footsoldier said:

I’ve owned an original Superleggera (paddles), a Huracan Evo RWD, an original manual V8 R8, and a paddle V10. And a GTR for a bit, and 3 Exige, inc a 350 and a 430, so can at least offer some experience for what it’s worth!

My opinion…SL is the most special feeling. An original Huracan is dull by comparison, more like an Audi until you get to the special editions which will be too expensive. SL would be my top choice

I don’t think a V10 R8 will ever feel as exciting although it is a great piece of machinery and if you want one car to do it all, you can’t go wrong. It’s hard not to want to get a ‘real supercar’ after a while though.

Original V8 R8 manual would get more of a vote for what you are looking for - less expensive, still not an out and out “supercar”, but not so fast or so assisted as newer stuff and you can really drive it properly and hard and it has fantastic balance, more so than V10.

I’d also say the GTR is a great thing, written off as ‘PlayStation’ by people who’ve never driven one, and much less so than most modern stuff. I still think about getting another one when I remember about them (like now!)

Edited by footsoldier on Thursday 7th July 16:51

Thanks a lot for the above! Great to get feedback from someone that's spent time in all of them. That feeling of eventual desire for more was what I was a bit worried about with the R8 v10. An EVO was my choice originally but just wasn't in the place to pull the trigger - now they too have tipped $500k (up $120k from launch), $600k for a spider.

Interesting you say that about the Base Hurracan too - I think that's what held me off going all in, without spending much seat time I had a feeling that they would be missing a special something? I haven't seen anyone buy a 'base' huracan and truly enjoy it for anything more than Car and Coffee meets..

I've held off driving a Superleggera until I find the right one for sale (again, they're up some $70k now but being less common I've got less of a problem paying more for the right one if I ever find it). Did you get a try in a manual? I don't generally subscribe to manuals having to be the choice but certainly interested to know if it's worth holding out for one.

I couldn't agree more with the GTR - half the reason I'm in this predicament is that I couldn't let her go at a time when a superleggera came up and didn't have the space for both. Now I do and the prices have moved.. It takes a lot to actually drive it hard, Running a litchfield 4.5 kit it's an absolute animal - and for the price I'm not afraid to drive her as long and as hard as the roads safely allow and when on the track getting the tail out and keeping up with McLaren's and Porsches costing several times more with the biggest smile on my face..

Edited by up_shift on Friday 8th July 03:43

[paddy1970]

You could have a look at the r8talk forum for insights on R8 V8 mods. There are a few owners who have installed superchargers and twin turbos. Twin turbo can get to 1000hp without changing the engine internals....allegedly.... However, both the twin turbo and supercharger are very expensive options.

Ricky at REP in Swindon is a great guy to speak to if you want to know about modifying an R8. He is the "go to" man about R8 and modifications.

[200Plus Club]

Similar with the lamborghini engines, Ricky has rebuilt plenty and his you tube channel is pretty interesting as he's got one in at present in pieces.

[Trev450]

As above, anything regarding Lamborghini or R8, Ricky at RE Performance is your man.

[Griffith4ever]

I've got an R8 V10 Spyder, "gently" mapped to 589Bhp and it's mind meltingly good fun. It is most certainly an "occasion" every time you start her from cold. Mine has regular race shocks (magna ride delete) and it is amazingly planted when you spank her. When I approach large roundabouts (motorway junction - 5 lane - near me is my favourite play area) you can come in at crazy speeds, blipping down through the box (R-tronic) with the engine howling, then push the power back on under the underpass, more howling, going round at crazy speeds, with the thing clinging to the tarmac like it's life depends on it (well, mine does).

I've stepped the back out a couple times and the TC and 4x4 does a great job of gathering it back up, but still allowing a small slide. Both times in second gear at high revs going over a camber change, so almost certainly would have binned it with TC off.

An epic bit of kit, and the spyder means you really hear what's going on all the time. Never driven somthing as fast, or that stops so fast! Fast, beautiful, V10, great box (the R-Tronic is absolutely fine and down shifts are sublime), but with none of the "£800 for a 4 inch length of rubber hose from Lamborghini" experience. 2 services in so far and not been above £450, and that includes a brake fluid chaneg and an AC service. I use her as my daily unless the roads are salted.

I'd post videos of the sound and cornering but I'd get reported.

Such a bargain of a car , and the four circle badge keeps it a bargain ;-)

[Griffith4ever]

paddy1970 said:

You could have a look at the r8talk forum for insights on R8 V8 mods. There are a few owners who have installed superchargers and twin turbos. Twin turbo can get to 1000hp without changing the engine internals....allegedly.... However, both the twin turbo and supercharger are very expensive options.

Ricky at REP in Swindon is a great guy to speak to if you want to know about modifying an R8. He is the "go to" man about R8 and modifications.

Interesting fact - when I went to pick up my R8 I was on the R8 FB page (left now as it's fairly tttish) - some chap went up the same day to collect a twin turbo R8 V8. Showed a vid from the vendor, filming him leaving. He never got home. Flipped it on the motorway.

[Shnozz]

Griffith4ever said:

I've got an R8 V10 Spyder, "gently" mapped to 589Bhp and it's mind meltingly good fun. It is most certainly an "occasion" every time you start her from cold. Mine has regular race shocks (magna ride delete) and it is amazingly planted when you spank her. When I approach large roundabouts (motorway junction - 5 lane - near me is my favourite play area) you can come in at crazy speeds, blipping down through the box (R-tronic) with the engine howling, then push the power back on under the underpass, more howling, going round at crazy speeds, with the thing clinging to the tarmac like it's life depends on it (well, mine does).

I've stepped the back out a couple times and the TC and 4x4 does a great job of gathering it back up, but still allowing a small slide. Both times in second gear at high revs going over a camber change, so almost certainly would have binned it with TC off.

An epic bit of kit, and the spyder means you really hear what's going on all the time. Never driven somthing as fast, or that stops so fast! Fast, beautiful, V10, great box (the R-Tronic is absolutely fine and down shifts are sublime), but with none of the "£800 for a 4 inch length of rubber hose from Lamborghini" experience. 2 services in so far and not been above £450, and that includes a brake fluid chaneg and an AC service. I use her as my daily unless the roads are salted.

I'd post videos of the sound and cornering but I'd get reported.

Such a bargain of a car , and the four circle badge keeps it a bargain ;-)

Not usually a fan of convertibles (particularly in the UK), but that looks fantastic. For some reason I much prefer the lines of the spyder to the hardtop in the first gen R8. Perhaps its the lack of the blades? Even roof up it looks so much better to my eyes.

Out of interest, how do you find the public react to the R8? I enjoyed the fact with the Vantage it wasn't too "shouty" so really only appreciated by petrolheads and you could park it up without coming back to greasy hands all over the paintwork or people stood around with camera phones.

[up_shift]

Trev450 said:

As above, anything regarding Lamborghini or R8, Ricky at RE Performance is your man.

200Plus Club said:

Similar with the lamborghini engines, Ricky has rebuilt plenty and his you tube channel is pretty interesting as he's got one in at present in pieces.

paddy1970 said:

You could have a look at the r8talk forum for insights on R8 V8 mods. There are a few owners who have installed superchargers and twin turbos. Twin turbo can get to 1000hp without changing the engine internals....allegedly.... However, both the twin turbo and supercharger are very expensive options.

Ricky at REP in Swindon is a great guy to speak to if you want to know about modifying an R8. He is the "go to" man about R8 and modifications.

Looks like he's the man, will make a note thanks guys

Griffith4ever said:

Interesting fact - when I went to pick up my R8 I was on the R8 FB page (left now as it's fairly tttish) - some chap went up the same day to collect a twin turbo R8 V8. Showed a vid from the vendor, filming him leaving. He never got home. Flipped it on the motorway.

natural selection in action! Maybe I grew out of it in my 20s I've never understood how someone has the lack of restraint to wreck a car in public..

Griffith4ever said:

I've got an R8 V10 Spyder, "gently" mapped to 589Bhp and it's mind meltingly good fun. It is most certainly an "occasion" every time you start her from cold. Mine has regular race shocks (magna ride delete) and it is amazingly planted when you spank her. When I approach large roundabouts (motorway junction - 5 lane - near me is my favourite play area) you can come in at crazy speeds, blipping down through the box (R-tronic) with the engine howling, then push the power back on under the underpass, more howling, going round at crazy speeds, with the thing clinging to the tarmac like it's life depends on it (well, mine does).

I've stepped the back out a couple times and the TC and 4x4 does a great job of gathering it back up, but still allowing a small slide. Both times in second gear at high revs going over a camber change, so almost certainly would have binned it with TC off.

An epic bit of kit, and the spyder means you really hear what's going on all the time. Never driven somthing as fast, or that stops so fast! Fast, beautiful, V10, great box (the R-Tronic is absolutely fine and down shifts are sublime), but with none of the "£800 for a 4 inch length of rubber hose from Lamborghini" experience. 2 services in so far and not been above £450, and that includes a brake fluid chaneg and an AC service. I use her as my daily unless the roads are salted.

I'd post videos of the sound and cornering but I'd get reported.

Such a bargain of a car , and the four circle badge keeps it a bargain ;-)

See now THAT is why I like the 1st gen - that is stunning I think the coupe / roadsters have aged gravefully. The perfect v10 Mk1 convertible came up in September and it literally sold 10 mins before I called frustratingly. The same car has come up with an $80k premium since but if the right one comes up I'll definitely be tempted..

Did you make that power with many other mods?

I can't help but feel they're as low as they will be for some time too. Be interested to hear anyone who has gone the turbo route vs a v10? I'll be servicing her myself but parts savings will definitely be a bonus.

[WCZ]

how much are the cheapest 458's over there?

[Griffith4ever]

Shnozz said:

Not usually a fan of convertibles (particularly in the UK), but that looks fantastic. For some reason I much prefer the lines of the spyder to the hardtop in the first gen R8. Perhaps its the lack of the blades? Even roof up it looks so much better to my eyes.

Out of interest, how do you find the public react to the R8? I enjoyed the fact with the Vantage it wasn't too "shouty" so really only appreciated by petrolheads and you could park it up without coming back to greasy hands all over the paintwork or people stood around with camera phones.

I totally agree., When I saw it for sale online I knew I had to have it immediately. It's a great look. The side vents make it look very purposeful.

Reaction - really really good. Very surprised too, as I've had porsches, TVRs etc and they did not prepare me for this. Common to come out of shops to find someone walking around it. Left the Mrs in when I popped into the Coop and came out to find her cringing in the seat whilst a couple were asking her how fast/how much/mpg etc etc :-) she hates the attention. I get a good share of thumbs up, usually from lads in chipped beamers, and people in highly modified cars - they know what it is I guess. I always return a smile, or if someone makes a nice comment I usually reply, "yes, it's crazy fun". Always a positive experience.

Came out of B&Q and a lady exclaimed, to her husband, "WOW!! WHAT kind of Audi is that?!?!?" - made me smile.

On the motorway people generally make a space for me in L3 rather than slowing down or blocking, and that's with no agression at all. I guess it looks purposeful in the rear view mirror.

It's a good balance. I had thought about a Gallardo, but it would be too much where I live in terms of attention. I don't get people taking photos etc. I would with a Lambo I imagine.

The sound is bang on too, nice and quiet when spuddling, but gets very loud when you give it some.

To the other poster - the 589Bhp is a simple remap - I have the dyno run from the mapping co. Previous owner did it. I'm led to believe that's quite a conservative map and takes it up to what the Hurrican is (was) running at. Very likely tuned down to keep the Lambo customers happy - at least that's what I've read.

Edited by Griffith4ever on Friday 8th July 12:18

[up_shift]

WCZ said:

how much are the cheapest 458's over there?

$400k on a good day very quickly jumping up to $500k. Also a car that is very much on the watchlist, preferably sub $300k though

Utterly fell in love working on this one:





The main problem here is supply - at any given time there's only a few available and add to the government making it difficult to import cars historically, luxury car tax thrown in.. Every now and then someone will throw a cheap car on the market and it will drag things down, until then people generally ask what they want at the upper end of the market

Edited by up_shift on Friday 8th July 12:38