50k deposit, 6/700 monthlies What can I get?
Discussion
After reading a couple of supercar running costs in recent weeks, I am always wondering If I could make the jump.
I have done pretty well in enjoying the lower end of "fun" cars selling pretty much all at a profit over the years...
The end game has always been to get in an entry level supercar.
Maybe I could get into one sooner than I think... I should have around £50-60k equity come winter. And can afford up to 6/700 in monthlies as well as 3-5k a year in upkeep.
I'm always wondering if I could get say a AMG GTR/570s/991.2TS with those sort of finances.
GFV and interest rates would be a big factor of course. And Ideally I would want a car that will have the best residuals as possible. I have never looked into the GFV of such cars tbh so I am not sure if they have any accuracies?? As for example the entry level 570s has been around the 80-90k mark for 3 years now. And in my opinion worse case would always be worth 60-70k over the next 4 years??
With my budget I may not need a PCP type deal and could go HP.
But If with the budget I could get into a PCP on a 140/150k car such as a 720s/600lt that would be mega!! Am I just dreaming.. Any advice would be welcomed!
I have done pretty well in enjoying the lower end of "fun" cars selling pretty much all at a profit over the years...
The end game has always been to get in an entry level supercar.
Maybe I could get into one sooner than I think... I should have around £50-60k equity come winter. And can afford up to 6/700 in monthlies as well as 3-5k a year in upkeep.
I'm always wondering if I could get say a AMG GTR/570s/991.2TS with those sort of finances.
GFV and interest rates would be a big factor of course. And Ideally I would want a car that will have the best residuals as possible. I have never looked into the GFV of such cars tbh so I am not sure if they have any accuracies?? As for example the entry level 570s has been around the 80-90k mark for 3 years now. And in my opinion worse case would always be worth 60-70k over the next 4 years??
With my budget I may not need a PCP type deal and could go HP.
But If with the budget I could get into a PCP on a 140/150k car such as a 720s/600lt that would be mega!! Am I just dreaming.. Any advice would be welcomed!
Edited by likesachange on Monday 27th June 16:21
Bear in mind the interest you pay is on the total value of the borrowed amount less your deposit so if you put £50k down on a £150k car with let's say for ease of numbers a balloon payment of £50k at the end of the term you'd be paying interest on £100k, not the finance minus the balloon. Therefore if the monthlies are low you're not paying off much of the capital and the majority of your monthly payment would be interest.
If I were you I'd look at reducing the budget and getting a low interest bank loan to buy "outright" rather than PCP, it might be a better financial choice longer term...
If I were you I'd look at reducing the budget and getting a low interest bank loan to buy "outright" rather than PCP, it might be a better financial choice longer term...
Tough to say without knowing your personal circumstances, deposit & monthly budget are only half the equation when dealing with 100k plus lends.
Your asset to liabilities ratio, income, source of income, credit profile, age, borrowing history all factor in to underwriters decision making along with the specific vehicle and the lenders appetite for risk on it.
Mainstream lenders like Black Horse or Santander are usually happy to lend on cooking Audi’s, Mercedes Porsche’s etc, but supercars generally require specific asset underwriting done on bespoke terms. Some lenders will give higher residuals on Ferraris for example as they are comfortable with understanding that market, but deal with a specific type of customer, whereas guys like JBR will typically lend across multiple marques to a wider range of customers albeit with more conservative balloons and higher APR’s.
You really need to talk to a broker who can put together your customer profile and vehicle and then match you with an appropriate lender.
Charles & Dean, Magnitude and others can give you better advice based on your own circumstances.
Underwriting is much tougher at the moment due to the financial uncertainty, so i’d make sure you have all your fiscal ducks in a row in terms of income proofs, checking your credit records, etc.
Expect to pay a higher APR as well, lenders are already pricing in the next interest rate rises.
Your asset to liabilities ratio, income, source of income, credit profile, age, borrowing history all factor in to underwriters decision making along with the specific vehicle and the lenders appetite for risk on it.
Mainstream lenders like Black Horse or Santander are usually happy to lend on cooking Audi’s, Mercedes Porsche’s etc, but supercars generally require specific asset underwriting done on bespoke terms. Some lenders will give higher residuals on Ferraris for example as they are comfortable with understanding that market, but deal with a specific type of customer, whereas guys like JBR will typically lend across multiple marques to a wider range of customers albeit with more conservative balloons and higher APR’s.
You really need to talk to a broker who can put together your customer profile and vehicle and then match you with an appropriate lender.
Charles & Dean, Magnitude and others can give you better advice based on your own circumstances.
Underwriting is much tougher at the moment due to the financial uncertainty, so i’d make sure you have all your fiscal ducks in a row in terms of income proofs, checking your credit records, etc.
Expect to pay a higher APR as well, lenders are already pricing in the next interest rate rises.
Thanks for time very informative reply.
Food for thought….
Maybe I am dreaming too much at the moment at 130k+ cars
I could probably raise up to 70 without lending.. As said maybe a bank loan on an extra 30k or so would be the sensible choice.
I had a theory where my initial sums, would make the overall cost of the car just the monthly 6-700ish..
which I can afford to write off meaning at the end of term the equity would almost meet the deposit paid.
Been keeping an eye on the market for years and although you still need a crystal ball to forecast…. A 85k 650s is never going to drop 40-50k! Worse case in my opinion maybe drop 20k which is no more than a sporty saloon.
Lots to factor in I know. Just doing my best with man maths, and owning a supercar one day I hope is in the realms of possibilities.
Food for thought….
Maybe I am dreaming too much at the moment at 130k+ cars
I could probably raise up to 70 without lending.. As said maybe a bank loan on an extra 30k or so would be the sensible choice.
I had a theory where my initial sums, would make the overall cost of the car just the monthly 6-700ish..
which I can afford to write off meaning at the end of term the equity would almost meet the deposit paid.
Been keeping an eye on the market for years and although you still need a crystal ball to forecast…. A 85k 650s is never going to drop 40-50k! Worse case in my opinion maybe drop 20k which is no more than a sporty saloon.
Lots to factor in I know. Just doing my best with man maths, and owning a supercar one day I hope is in the realms of possibilities.
likesachange said:
ANOpax said:
Neither the Merc nor the Pork are supercars.
So it's Macca all the way if supercar is what you want.
That's debateable but quite possibly true.... Note How I didn't include the R8, although I do like those too So it's Macca all the way if supercar is what you want.
I think that counts for a lot, even if it's not in the same league as a McLaren.
I would take the Merc and Porsche option off the list personally.
The Turbo S is great- capable, very practical, and devastatingly quick but doesn't look or feel like a supercar and is not the full super car experience.
There are a lot of options, and you don't have to go to the top of your budget either.
Ferrari F430 should arguably be one of the first cars to consider- you can get a good car for under 100k, if you buy well and do your homework a great choice. Not the fastest in the world but a proper super car, and you will enjoy it a lot I'm sure.
Ferrari 599 also an option, there are cars around for under/up to 100k, and can probably get a Ferrari approved car with 2 year power warranty for around 115k- again under the max budget.
You mentioned residuals being quite important, both of those option will not suffer any outright depreciation with sensible miles over 2 years so as long as you are able to sell via the same dealer on a commission sale, or possibly even privately in case of F430 you should lose next to nothing.
I would even look at something like a a 6.0 V12 Vantage S- brilliant value for what it is, 560 BHP, looks like a bargain in todays market as plenty available under 100k, you can actually get a nice example for anywhere between 85-90k often approved used with 1 year warranty. The newer cars with best specs are more of course but it's something to consider, far less common and more interesting than a Turbo S. Then there is the sound....!
The Turbo S is great- capable, very practical, and devastatingly quick but doesn't look or feel like a supercar and is not the full super car experience.
There are a lot of options, and you don't have to go to the top of your budget either.
Ferrari F430 should arguably be one of the first cars to consider- you can get a good car for under 100k, if you buy well and do your homework a great choice. Not the fastest in the world but a proper super car, and you will enjoy it a lot I'm sure.
Ferrari 599 also an option, there are cars around for under/up to 100k, and can probably get a Ferrari approved car with 2 year power warranty for around 115k- again under the max budget.
You mentioned residuals being quite important, both of those option will not suffer any outright depreciation with sensible miles over 2 years so as long as you are able to sell via the same dealer on a commission sale, or possibly even privately in case of F430 you should lose next to nothing.
I would even look at something like a a 6.0 V12 Vantage S- brilliant value for what it is, 560 BHP, looks like a bargain in todays market as plenty available under 100k, you can actually get a nice example for anywhere between 85-90k often approved used with 1 year warranty. The newer cars with best specs are more of course but it's something to consider, far less common and more interesting than a Turbo S. Then there is the sound....!
Edited by Chad_Hugo on Monday 27th June 22:03
Chad_Hugo said:
I would take the Merc and Porsche option off the list personally.
The Turbo S is great- capable, very practical, and devastatingly quick but doesn't look or feel like a supercar and is not the full super car experience.
There are a lot of options, and you don't have to go to the top of your budget either.
Ferrari F430 should arguably be one of the first cars to consider- you can get a good car for under 100k, if you buy well and do your homework a great choice. Not the fastest in the world but a proper super car, and you will enjoy it a lot I'm sure.
Ferrari 599 also an option, there are cars around for under/up to 100k, and can probably get a Ferrari approved car with 2 year power warranty for around 115k- again under the max budget.
You mentioned residuals being quite important, both of those option will not suffer any outright depreciation with sensible miles over 2 years so as long as you are able to sell via the same dealer on a commission sale, or possibly even privately in case of F430 you should lose next to nothing.
I would even look at something like a a 6.0 V12 Vantage S- brilliant value for what it is, 560 BHP, looks like a bargain in todays market as plenty available under 100k, you can actually get a nice example for anywhere between 85-90k often approved used with 1 year warranty. The newer cars with best specs are more of course but it's something to consider, far less common and more interesting than a Turbo S. Then there is the sound....!
My reasons for the Merc is I think they look incredible, sound incredible, are pretty rare, modern and in theory pretty bullet proof. The Porsche more of the same although sound is a disappointment and more dated than the Merc.. The Turbo S is great- capable, very practical, and devastatingly quick but doesn't look or feel like a supercar and is not the full super car experience.
There are a lot of options, and you don't have to go to the top of your budget either.
Ferrari F430 should arguably be one of the first cars to consider- you can get a good car for under 100k, if you buy well and do your homework a great choice. Not the fastest in the world but a proper super car, and you will enjoy it a lot I'm sure.
Ferrari 599 also an option, there are cars around for under/up to 100k, and can probably get a Ferrari approved car with 2 year power warranty for around 115k- again under the max budget.
You mentioned residuals being quite important, both of those option will not suffer any outright depreciation with sensible miles over 2 years so as long as you are able to sell via the same dealer on a commission sale, or possibly even privately in case of F430 you should lose next to nothing.
I would even look at something like a a 6.0 V12 Vantage S- brilliant value for what it is, 560 BHP, looks like a bargain in todays market as plenty available under 100k, you can actually get a nice example for anywhere between 85-90k often approved used with 1 year warranty. The newer cars with best specs are more of course but it's something to consider, far less common and more interesting than a Turbo S. Then there is the sound....!
Edited by Chad_Hugo on Monday 27th June 22:03
The 599 would be epic but imagine potentially crippling maintenance costs??
The F430 and Aston I don't feel will give me the performance gains I'd want to match the "supercar" status But there is that noise and special feeling!
I personally would get a manual 360, you can probably get that without using any finance during winter.
I can see the attraction of high horsepower cars when living in Germany or doing extensive track days, but as road cars - especially in the UK - I find something like a 355, 360 or (maybe) 430, ideally with a manual transmission, much more enjoyable. They are fast enough to not be slow, but slow enough so you can accelerate a little and use 2-3 gears without too much trouble. All of these definitely feel like supercars imo and they sound much better than most modern cars (the 430 is not great tbh, but still better than most modern stuff).
If you go Porsche, I would got GT (of any generation) rather than Turbo. My GT2 felt very special [but you need to know how to drive / treat it with respect] as does my GT3.
I know it is not a direct answer to the question.
Out of your choices, I would probably go for the McLaren - always wanted to try one and have so far not owned one (one reason being that I don't really have a good "use case" for one - see above reasoning). From memory you can get a truly comprehensive warranty on those for something like 4-6k, so that should limit any "bad suprises" downside and I am sure any McLaren would feel very special as well (albeit not sound as nice as the Ferraris or a GT3)
I can see the attraction of high horsepower cars when living in Germany or doing extensive track days, but as road cars - especially in the UK - I find something like a 355, 360 or (maybe) 430, ideally with a manual transmission, much more enjoyable. They are fast enough to not be slow, but slow enough so you can accelerate a little and use 2-3 gears without too much trouble. All of these definitely feel like supercars imo and they sound much better than most modern cars (the 430 is not great tbh, but still better than most modern stuff).
If you go Porsche, I would got GT (of any generation) rather than Turbo. My GT2 felt very special [but you need to know how to drive / treat it with respect] as does my GT3.
I know it is not a direct answer to the question.
Out of your choices, I would probably go for the McLaren - always wanted to try one and have so far not owned one (one reason being that I don't really have a good "use case" for one - see above reasoning). From memory you can get a truly comprehensive warranty on those for something like 4-6k, so that should limit any "bad suprises" downside and I am sure any McLaren would feel very special as well (albeit not sound as nice as the Ferraris or a GT3)
Pflanzgarten said:
likesachange said:
although you still need a crystal ball to forecast…. A 85k 650s is never going to drop 40-50k!
I get the theory in principle but it takes a brave man to claim that even with todays inflation.I think that modern cars will drop, in time, to low values.
There is an endless supply of new cars and they are very complex and expensive to maintain.
Older cars, in contrast, were made in limited supply and are much less complex. so easier and cheaper to maintain.
OP...what do you actually want?
How much do you actually want to spend
Do you want to own the car after 3 yrs or sell it back?
£700 x 48 = £33,600
So basically after 4 yrs you are looking at having spent £100k more or less.
DAMN SKIPPY Id be expecting to own the thing after that much outlay!
How much do you actually want to spend
Do you want to own the car after 3 yrs or sell it back?
- Personally* if Im pumping £50/60/70k into a motor I want to own the bloody thing after Ive paid out £700/month for 3-4 yrs.
£700 x 48 = £33,600
So basically after 4 yrs you are looking at having spent £100k more or less.
DAMN SKIPPY Id be expecting to own the thing after that much outlay!
OssAndy said:
Buy a manual R8 v10 outright for £60k and enjoy.
- THIS*.
Seriously, there is a lot to be said for something like an R8 owning it outright, you won't be as worried about putting miles on it, the finance payments can go on weekends away (or into a saving pot for the upgrade), etc etc.
Alternatively, with a bork budget of £5k/year, £8400/year in monthlies, and the income from £50k invested, you could hire a different sports or supercar for a weekend each month. When the maser went I wondered what to replace it with, but thinking about the little use it got then when I can get a weekend in an Alpine for £560 or a 458 or 570 for under £2k then if I want a change for a day it is easy.
And it means the Z4MC gets used for more than just shopping.
Is the R8 special enough?
Cheapest McLaren with a manufacturer approved warranty is around £90k
Everyone's different but let's say the OP is young enough, maybe has a young kid, lives in a nice semi in a nice part of town that he's recently done up to a high standard.
Things change pretty quick with young kids, pumping the thick end of a grand into a toy every month might start to wain a little when you want to start looking at everything else that can be enjoyed with a family.
Chucking in £50-60k I get, I also get wanting to get some of it back!
It would not surprise me at all that someone buying a £85-90k McLaren today might only be offered £45k to get rid in a couple of years as a part exchange etc. It's rarified air up there, it's not the same as chopping in £30-40k weekend toys as there are so many fewer buyers.
The best thing I ever did was getting out of the financial tie of PCP and finance deals. They certainly have their place, I enjoyed some fantastic cars while I could keep lump sums in the business.
It's just you realise how much they cost you when they're gone.
Unless you're very lucky, getting in and out of McLarens and Ferraris at anything like something as low as £15k is going to be hard work. The buy to sell spread is just so high and I'd imagine especially so now the market has the jitters again.
But does anyone expect any further financial stability in the next two years? The war is still going to be on, the supply chain is still likely to be tricky, covid will rear it's ugly head again. What next, food and power shortages?
That's before you think about what you actually do with a supercar in these situations.
Still, you only live once
If a supercar will make your dreams come true then why not?
Were it me, I'd re-mortgage that nicely done up house (on a 5 year deal) to add to what you've got and religiously put the expected PCP payments towards the maximum overpayment the mortgage allows.
Cheapest McLaren with a manufacturer approved warranty is around £90k
Everyone's different but let's say the OP is young enough, maybe has a young kid, lives in a nice semi in a nice part of town that he's recently done up to a high standard.
Things change pretty quick with young kids, pumping the thick end of a grand into a toy every month might start to wain a little when you want to start looking at everything else that can be enjoyed with a family.
Chucking in £50-60k I get, I also get wanting to get some of it back!
It would not surprise me at all that someone buying a £85-90k McLaren today might only be offered £45k to get rid in a couple of years as a part exchange etc. It's rarified air up there, it's not the same as chopping in £30-40k weekend toys as there are so many fewer buyers.
The best thing I ever did was getting out of the financial tie of PCP and finance deals. They certainly have their place, I enjoyed some fantastic cars while I could keep lump sums in the business.
It's just you realise how much they cost you when they're gone.
Unless you're very lucky, getting in and out of McLarens and Ferraris at anything like something as low as £15k is going to be hard work. The buy to sell spread is just so high and I'd imagine especially so now the market has the jitters again.
But does anyone expect any further financial stability in the next two years? The war is still going to be on, the supply chain is still likely to be tricky, covid will rear it's ugly head again. What next, food and power shortages?
That's before you think about what you actually do with a supercar in these situations.
Still, you only live once
If a supercar will make your dreams come true then why not?Were it me, I'd re-mortgage that nicely done up house (on a 5 year deal) to add to what you've got and religiously put the expected PCP payments towards the maximum overpayment the mortgage allows.
If you buy the R8 outright for 60k what do you think the depreciation will be over the next 3 years? £35k depreciation? So that is almost £1k a month in depreciation plus the loss of investment interest on the original 60k. So the real cost excluding running costs is probably £1200 to £1400/ month.
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