Fed up of micro-damage by garages
Discussion
Hey there,
It seems that almost every time I get some work done to my car, that the car comes back to me in a worse (cosmetic) state than I left it.
Recently, I got my Aventador wrapped. Stupidly I didn’t take a walk around or take pictures when I dropped it off. However, I’ve noticed:
1) A slight chip on one of the removable roof panels
2) Some damage to the leather on the seat (this definitely looks ‘fresh’)
3) A tiny dent on the passenger side door
All of these, I hadn’t ever noticed before (I would have definitely noticed the leather) and just annoyed. This has happened to many cars over the years. Frustrating as one can take care of a car so well but others when paid to do so - don’t treat it as well. I’m not skimping on quality to save cost here either... I think.
What do you guys do when you drop the car off to get some work done to it? Take pictures? A walk-around and agree the things which are damaged?
It seems that almost every time I get some work done to my car, that the car comes back to me in a worse (cosmetic) state than I left it.
Recently, I got my Aventador wrapped. Stupidly I didn’t take a walk around or take pictures when I dropped it off. However, I’ve noticed:
1) A slight chip on one of the removable roof panels
2) Some damage to the leather on the seat (this definitely looks ‘fresh’)
3) A tiny dent on the passenger side door
All of these, I hadn’t ever noticed before (I would have definitely noticed the leather) and just annoyed. This has happened to many cars over the years. Frustrating as one can take care of a car so well but others when paid to do so - don’t treat it as well. I’m not skimping on quality to save cost here either... I think.
What do you guys do when you drop the car off to get some work done to it? Take pictures? A walk-around and agree the things which are damaged?
This is something I've spoken to my Porsche Centre about a few times in the past, and suggested it's surely in everyone's interest to carefully check cars over prior to taking them into the centre, just like with a hire car. I always get someone to walk around the car with me and I point out all the defects I'm aware of, and check if they can spot any I wasn't aware of - although that never seems to happen to be honest. So far I've never had any issues, but I think a walkaround is something that should really be done as a matter of course, otherwise there's quite a potential for trust and relationship issues to develop in a situation like you describe.
Very common.
You just have to decide how much you care.
Had a small annoying dink by the badge on an AM. Probably a dropped tool. The dealer denied it was them.
What can you do. Can you be bothered to photograph ever cm of your car.......
Also had inappropriate cleaning stuff used on interiors which makes them sticky.
Photos wouldn’t help with that.
You just have to decide how much you care.
Had a small annoying dink by the badge on an AM. Probably a dropped tool. The dealer denied it was them.
What can you do. Can you be bothered to photograph ever cm of your car.......
Also had inappropriate cleaning stuff used on interiors which makes them sticky.
Photos wouldn’t help with that.
If you think your dealer might damage your p and j then effectively you don't trust them so change dealer.
Never have your car jet washed or valeted unless you know who is doing the work.
Never let your dealer drive your car unless absolutely essential and only take for an MOT to a dealer who can do the MOT themselves not at a garage you've never even heard of 5 miles away what could possibly go wrong lol. If necessary take the car there yourself.
Never have your car jet washed or valeted unless you know who is doing the work.
Never let your dealer drive your car unless absolutely essential and only take for an MOT to a dealer who can do the MOT themselves not at a garage you've never even heard of 5 miles away what could possibly go wrong lol. If necessary take the car there yourself.
av185 said:
If you think your dealer might damage your p and j then effectively you don't trust them so change dealer.
Anywhere "might" damage your car, accidents happen. Otherwise you had better gen up on how to service your own car.It's whether you trust them to be upfront and own up and get it fixed or just deny it.
If the latter then you need a new place.
Glad this isn't just me then. Happens all the time. Even recently got my car back with an alloy wheel kerbed and some damage to the paint around the wheel arch where they stick the pressure washer in to clean the liners, by a very well known detailing outfit.. the place you would LEAST expect to receive a car back looking worse off.
Front PPF and front badge damaged when my car was at a body shop for some paint. Somebody had either reversed into my car or they had driven it into something. Whether they did it or not, if happened with the car in their care after I dropped the keys off. They denied any responsibility ofcourse.
Front PPF and front badge damaged when my car was at a body shop for some paint. Somebody had either reversed into my car or they had driven it into something. Whether they did it or not, if happened with the car in their care after I dropped the keys off. They denied any responsibility ofcourse.
last time i had my 430 serviced at Maranello's they did clean it before my collection, but i think they used a Brillo pad,
The car was spotless when i left it there, also there was large scuff marks on the door panel looked like heavy boots
and scratches on the kick panels on the door shuts.
Being black didn't help, spent two days getting the scratches out using a machine and by hand.,
When i complained to be far they did offer to clean the car again but using the workshop cleaners not the professional
ones at the showroom so i declined the offer as it meant time taking it there again and collecting it.
Car valeting is a professional profession especially on high end cars, think sometimes the suits in these
main dealers just choose anyone who may reply to a situation vacant advert with no previous experience
dismissing it as a menial job which it's not.
Next time i will ask them to leave it dusty with a few oily finger prints ,if their is a next time and wash it myself, will be quicker in the long term.
These large dealerships are only as good as the people working for them where as most specialist
have a more personal relationship with their customers and not just a number at the reception desk.
The car was spotless when i left it there, also there was large scuff marks on the door panel looked like heavy boots
and scratches on the kick panels on the door shuts.
Being black didn't help, spent two days getting the scratches out using a machine and by hand.,
When i complained to be far they did offer to clean the car again but using the workshop cleaners not the professional
ones at the showroom so i declined the offer as it meant time taking it there again and collecting it.
Car valeting is a professional profession especially on high end cars, think sometimes the suits in these
main dealers just choose anyone who may reply to a situation vacant advert with no previous experience
dismissing it as a menial job which it's not.
Next time i will ask them to leave it dusty with a few oily finger prints ,if their is a next time and wash it myself, will be quicker in the long term.
These large dealerships are only as good as the people working for them where as most specialist
have a more personal relationship with their customers and not just a number at the reception desk.
Edited by rat rod on Monday 22 March 19:09
A few years ago I took my Noble in for its annual service with the specialist I’ve used for years. I collected it, all fine, took it home and when I got there while washing it I found a 1cm crack in the bottom corner of the windscreen. That wasn’t there before, the car was immaculate. Immediately phoned the specialist and said what I’d found. He was mortified. They sourced a new screen from the Noble factory (not an easy task) and got a specialist screen guy to fit it (also not easy). All within a week. I still take the car to that specialist, wouldn’t go anywhere else.
This is a good question and something I have spent lots of time thinking about as both a Ferrari owner and owner of a company who works on lots of expensive customers cars.
From a company point of view, I try to avoid 'official' inspections with the customer present where possible, and that's because if I miss one small thing then I'm responsible for it, and to do a though inspection which would pick up everything internal out external would take a good 20 minutes so it's just not feasible. At the same time, I will usually find items that the customer never new about, but we are all about making customers feel good about there car, not the opposite. Having an inspection with the customer also breaks down that initial trust that might be there and isn't how we want our customer relationships to be.
What we do instead is normally spend a few minutes taking pictures of faults as soon as the customer has left, we don't expect to find everything but it's better than nothing and does save us a couple of times a year on average. Customers who have initially blamed us for faults only for our time stamped photos to prove differently have always been innocent I think and genuinely only noticed the fault as they look closer at there vehicle because it had left there side. If anything this is for my team members own sake, as if I solely had a customer telling me the vehicle was damaged and one of my team saying it was already there with no proof, naturally I would side with the customer each time.
This way the good relationships we have aren't put at risk unless the customer raises an issue.
This is of course how I would like to be treated with my own car, obviously everyone is different but would be interested to hear any variants to our processes above which people would think a better way.
From a company point of view, I try to avoid 'official' inspections with the customer present where possible, and that's because if I miss one small thing then I'm responsible for it, and to do a though inspection which would pick up everything internal out external would take a good 20 minutes so it's just not feasible. At the same time, I will usually find items that the customer never new about, but we are all about making customers feel good about there car, not the opposite. Having an inspection with the customer also breaks down that initial trust that might be there and isn't how we want our customer relationships to be.
What we do instead is normally spend a few minutes taking pictures of faults as soon as the customer has left, we don't expect to find everything but it's better than nothing and does save us a couple of times a year on average. Customers who have initially blamed us for faults only for our time stamped photos to prove differently have always been innocent I think and genuinely only noticed the fault as they look closer at there vehicle because it had left there side. If anything this is for my team members own sake, as if I solely had a customer telling me the vehicle was damaged and one of my team saying it was already there with no proof, naturally I would side with the customer each time.
This way the good relationships we have aren't put at risk unless the customer raises an issue.
This is of course how I would like to be treated with my own car, obviously everyone is different but would be interested to hear any variants to our processes above which people would think a better way.
Duncan_autoshine said:
This is a good question and something I have spent lots of time thinking about as both a Ferrari owner and owner of a company who works on lots of expensive customers cars.
From a company point of view, I try to avoid 'official' inspections with the customer present where possible, and that's because if I miss one small thing then I'm responsible for it, and to do a though inspection which would pick up everything internal out external would take a good 20 minutes so it's just not feasible. At the same time, I will usually find items that the customer never new about, but we are all about making customers feel good about there car, not the opposite. Having an inspection with the customer also breaks down that initial trust that might be there and isn't how we want our customer relationships to be.
What we do instead is normally spend a few minutes taking pictures of faults as soon as the customer has left, we don't expect to find everything but it's better than nothing and does save us a couple of times a year on average. Customers who have initially blamed us for faults only for our time stamped photos to prove differently have always been innocent I think and genuinely only noticed the fault as they look closer at there vehicle because it had left there side. If anything this is for my team members own sake, as if I solely had a customer telling me the vehicle was damaged and one of my team saying it was already there with no proof, naturally I would side with the customer each time.
This way the good relationships we have aren't put at risk unless the customer raises an issue.
This is of course how I would like to be treated with my own car, obviously everyone is different but would be interested to hear any variants to our processes above which people would think a better way.
Would it not be better to take photo's or make notes with a diagram on some form of clip board in front of your customer before they leaveFrom a company point of view, I try to avoid 'official' inspections with the customer present where possible, and that's because if I miss one small thing then I'm responsible for it, and to do a though inspection which would pick up everything internal out external would take a good 20 minutes so it's just not feasible. At the same time, I will usually find items that the customer never new about, but we are all about making customers feel good about there car, not the opposite. Having an inspection with the customer also breaks down that initial trust that might be there and isn't how we want our customer relationships to be.
What we do instead is normally spend a few minutes taking pictures of faults as soon as the customer has left, we don't expect to find everything but it's better than nothing and does save us a couple of times a year on average. Customers who have initially blamed us for faults only for our time stamped photos to prove differently have always been innocent I think and genuinely only noticed the fault as they look closer at there vehicle because it had left there side. If anything this is for my team members own sake, as if I solely had a customer telling me the vehicle was damaged and one of my team saying it was already there with no proof, naturally I would side with the customer each time.
This way the good relationships we have aren't put at risk unless the customer raises an issue.
This is of course how I would like to be treated with my own car, obviously everyone is different but would be interested to hear any variants to our processes above which people would think a better way.
similar to what transport company's do before they take your pride and joy away. Just my two penny worth.
For me it’s just like hiring any car or van. A quick walk around with a check sheet, mark on any obvious damage or take photos and job’s done. Same on return. I don’t see it as a matter of making or breaking trust, it’s purely transactional, and to me good practice. As always people will have different views, but having discovered biro marks on my crema leather near the ignition lock after a service at a well known Leeds Ferrari centre I am somewhat biased.
My Ferraris are serviced by a main dealer who collects and redelivers on a covered transporter. When the cars are collected the driver spends about 10 - 15 minutes videoing the interior and exterior in detail so there can be no dispute about condition. A couple of years ago, when the 458 came back from a service I was looking at it while it was still on the transporter and spotted a stone chip low down on the driver’s door. I immediately blamed the dealer but they were able to very politely show, from the video, that it was there when they collected the car and I just hadn’t spotted it because it was so low down. Saved any argument (and they kindly provided me with some colour matched touch up paint free of charge).
I think it was around 2009, my then new M5 was due for a service and as I was busy I used the collection option offered by my dealer. Car was perfect, not a single mark on it. When it came back from the service it had some quite severe kerb rash on one of the front rims. I contacted the dealer and described the problem, they claimed the rim was already damaged.........after much back and forth/arguing I finally went to the dealer (following day) and asked for the collection inspection sheet. The pricks had added evidence of a damaged rim to the paperwork. Unfortunately for them they had added it to the wrong rim as when I described the damage to them I purposely stated damage on opposite rim. Someone must of had an almighty b
king that day. Dealer offered to repair the rim (I declined) and eventually with some intervention from BMW UK provided new rim and 2 new tyres. I had bought 3 brand new cars from them over a 5 year period. Never used them again after that.
king that day. Dealer offered to repair the rim (I declined) and eventually with some intervention from BMW UK provided new rim and 2 new tyres. I had bought 3 brand new cars from them over a 5 year period. Never used them again after that. Worse one for me was when I was getting my TVR serviced having just agreed a deal to sell it privately. On arriving at the dealer to collect it the service manager sheepishly told me they'd reversed it into a wall! It was drivable but quite badly damaged. They obviously agreed to repair it but said it would be at least six weeks before they could do it! I explained I'd just agreed to sell the car so needed it done pronto. They refused. The guy who'd agreed to buy it contacted his local TVR dealer who said they could do it and he was happy to take the car as is and send the repair invoice to "my" dealer. The DP refused to do that either, saying "the other TVR garage could charge us anything and screw us over!". Appalling, especially seeing as I'd originally bought the car from them and always had servicing and warranty work done there.
Anyway, happy ending to the story as two months later when the repair was finally done the guy hadn't found one he liked as much so still bought it.
I've had few other issues over the years - diamond cut alloy curbed during an Aston service, oily marks on carpet and leather after some Porsche engine work - plus a large scratch on a brand new Golf R before I'd even collected it - their promised in-house "invisible" repair covering half the car with overspray and leaving visible masking marks.
I must admit I'm always rather apprehensive when taking a car in for a service and not just because of the possible size of the invoice!
Anyway, happy ending to the story as two months later when the repair was finally done the guy hadn't found one he liked as much so still bought it.
I've had few other issues over the years - diamond cut alloy curbed during an Aston service, oily marks on carpet and leather after some Porsche engine work - plus a large scratch on a brand new Golf R before I'd even collected it - their promised in-house "invisible" repair covering half the car with overspray and leaving visible masking marks.
I must admit I'm always rather apprehensive when taking a car in for a service and not just because of the possible size of the invoice!
I had an R8 where they broke the front bumper during the major service.
They collected the car and spent about ten minutes going round it and handed me a form saying no damage.
When I collected I obviously pointed out the damage and showed them the form which said there was none on collection. They said "we won't honour that, they always miss something". Only when I sent them my CCTV footage showing their agent's face directly in front of the damaged area of bumper for about 20 seconds did they agree to fix.
They collected the car and spent about ten minutes going round it and handed me a form saying no damage.
When I collected I obviously pointed out the damage and showed them the form which said there was none on collection. They said "we won't honour that, they always miss something". Only when I sent them my CCTV footage showing their agent's face directly in front of the damaged area of bumper for about 20 seconds did they agree to fix.
sardis said:
For me it’s just like hiring any car or van. A quick walk around with a check sheet, mark on any obvious damage or take photos and job’s done. Same on return. I don’t see it as a matter of making or breaking trust, it’s purely transactional, and to me good practice. As always people will have different views, but having discovered biro marks on my crema leather near the ignition lock after a service at a well known Leeds Ferrari centre I am somewhat biased.
Problem is most of the time the damage is minute and really only noticeable to the naked eye, as the minor blemishes are described both by the OP and by others in the thread (not saying they are unimportant - just that evidencing they were not there before would need very detailed, close up shots of the entire car). Easy after the event to think you could have photographed or filmed it, but you'd be hours doing it every time you dropped the car off for any work whatsoever. Saw a thread where the owner of new to him Tuscan had a small scratch caused by a window cleaner on here the other week and felt for him both in terms of the damage but to the extent to which he had a melt down over it. Made me realise that these days I am just not as precious about cars as I perhaps once was because inevitably these sort of minor things happen over time and seemingly occur at a plethora of garages so unless its a truly bad dent or mishap, I would tend to let it go and in fact I have on several occasions, albeit voting sometimes with my feet. The only time I have got truly pissy was when I discovered by chance some work allegedly done as part of a pre-delivery service wasn't in fact done and did go for the jugular on that occasion. Small issues, however, life is too short.
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