Hairiest Moments?
Discussion
Had a discussion the other day with a good friend who is a hard core pistonhead. We got to swapping stories about the hairiest moments we have had in different supercars. I think mine was probably in the F40;
I had owned the car for a bit over a year and was driving back from Maranello to Madrid. I was on the A21 south of Milan when it started to sprinkle. I was closely abiding to the speed limit for F40s in Italy. At the last petrol stop, I had met a kind member of the Carabinieri who informed me of the speed limit by stating “you just go, I want to hear the car and I will tell my friends you are coming; they will not bother you”. Seeing the water on the windshield, I immediately lifted off and, in a few minutes, we were back down to around 140 kph. The decision to back off was incredibly fortunate as at that point, the skies completely opened up and the rain came down in sheets. Effective is not the first term that comes to mind when describing the F40s windshield wipers, and visibility dropped dramatically. At that point the F40 hit a large pool of standing water and I became a passenger. We skimmed along for what felt like an eternity (it probably was 5 seconds) before I could feel rubber reattaching itself to pavement. I was very fortunate that the road was dead straight in that section, we were pointed dead straight when we hit the water, there was no traffic around us, and we were coasting.
Yours?
I had owned the car for a bit over a year and was driving back from Maranello to Madrid. I was on the A21 south of Milan when it started to sprinkle. I was closely abiding to the speed limit for F40s in Italy. At the last petrol stop, I had met a kind member of the Carabinieri who informed me of the speed limit by stating “you just go, I want to hear the car and I will tell my friends you are coming; they will not bother you”. Seeing the water on the windshield, I immediately lifted off and, in a few minutes, we were back down to around 140 kph. The decision to back off was incredibly fortunate as at that point, the skies completely opened up and the rain came down in sheets. Effective is not the first term that comes to mind when describing the F40s windshield wipers, and visibility dropped dramatically. At that point the F40 hit a large pool of standing water and I became a passenger. We skimmed along for what felt like an eternity (it probably was 5 seconds) before I could feel rubber reattaching itself to pavement. I was very fortunate that the road was dead straight in that section, we were pointed dead straight when we hit the water, there was no traffic around us, and we were coasting.
Yours?
Circa 1980 Ferrari Dino. Racing across country home from work, I rounded a bend and there was a lorry broken down. I locked up and looking back now the skid caused horrendous understeer which directed me away from the back of the lorry and through a hedge into the relative safety of a soft and muddy field.
Few years ago, I used the M3 to get to work. Slip road where I exit had a fairly typical long left hand bend.
I was using a 996 turbo, and one morning I think I got the rear drivers side wheel too far over to the right, so it crossed the line and was on all the dirt / gravel.
Whatever the cause, the car spun and I ended up facing the opposite way on the slip road.
To this day, I don't understand how I avoided hitting the barrier. I was only half way around the bend when the car spun. Simple physics seems to say that momentum should have carried me into the barrier - even if the back of the car stepping out so close to the barrier didn't catch it anyway.
But somehow, I didn't touch the barrier or damage the car at all. Slightly embarrassing facing a couple of cars coming off the slip road who I recognised from work though.....
I was using a 996 turbo, and one morning I think I got the rear drivers side wheel too far over to the right, so it crossed the line and was on all the dirt / gravel.
Whatever the cause, the car spun and I ended up facing the opposite way on the slip road.
To this day, I don't understand how I avoided hitting the barrier. I was only half way around the bend when the car spun. Simple physics seems to say that momentum should have carried me into the barrier - even if the back of the car stepping out so close to the barrier didn't catch it anyway.
But somehow, I didn't touch the barrier or damage the car at all. Slightly embarrassing facing a couple of cars coming off the slip road who I recognised from work though.....
On the 30th anniversary jaunt to Sant Agata in 1993, I took the Jalpa, as it’s a targa.
The cops had a boozy lunch with us and then closed off some of the roads.
We drove out in small groups; I happened to be at the front of one.
I came over a small humpbacked hill doing about 110mph.
Not too far in front was a police car parked across the road with two policemen standing in front of it indicating that I should turn right.
I thought that there was no way that I could slow down in time to take the turn.
They didn’t move.
I was going to kill two Italian policemen.
Somehow I scrubbed the speed and got through the turn.
They cheered.
Those were the days.
The cops had a boozy lunch with us and then closed off some of the roads.
We drove out in small groups; I happened to be at the front of one.
I came over a small humpbacked hill doing about 110mph.
Not too far in front was a police car parked across the road with two policemen standing in front of it indicating that I should turn right.
I thought that there was no way that I could slow down in time to take the turn.
They didn’t move.
I was going to kill two Italian policemen.
Somehow I scrubbed the speed and got through the turn.
They cheered.
Those were the days.
Edited by Ferruccio on Thursday 10th December 21:48
Sitting on a patch of grass where my open sun roof is after having rolled my 911 Turbo across a field,
With no seat belt on i ended up occupying the gap in the roof where my sunroof is with blades of grass between my legs.
Up side down with the engine still running and looking though the shattered windscreen at petrol dripping out of the
front wing.
Had a few other close shaves but this one i will never forget. .
After owning several 911's the Turbo deserves it's title of Widow Maker.
Purely by coincidence Two years to the very day i purchased my 2nd 911 Turbo
Taking it as a omen i drove around gingerly for the first few days trying not to cause to many tailbacks.
With no seat belt on i ended up occupying the gap in the roof where my sunroof is with blades of grass between my legs.
Up side down with the engine still running and looking though the shattered windscreen at petrol dripping out of the
front wing.
Had a few other close shaves but this one i will never forget. .
After owning several 911's the Turbo deserves it's title of Widow Maker.
Purely by coincidence Two years to the very day i purchased my 2nd 911 Turbo
Taking it as a omen i drove around gingerly for the first few days trying not to cause to many tailbacks.
Edited by rat rod on Friday 11th December 00:14
Hmm, don’t think you are all trying hard enough. Came over a crest on a country road in my Evo 8, to see water pouring across the road in a stream, it had been raining but didn’t think it was that bad. The car was shod in Yokohama Advan tyres, great in the dry, horrible in the wet. Eased off and held the wheel straight but as above all four wheels lifted off the tarmac and I was carried across the road into the verge. Took out 110 feet of post and rail fence, I remember vividly watching the wood flying up in the air and recalling an episode of 999 when the driver got impaled by one of the posts.
Made it through that and into the field which was newly ploughed. Car dug in and flipped onto drivers side smashing the drivers door window. Did a full 360 barrel roll. Again I remember clearly the sky going around me just like a roller coaster and thinking this is going to hurt. I braced myself in the rather wonderful Recaro bucket seats and grasped the steering wheel as tight as I could. I also remember that I had the internal debate about breaking my wrists if it landed on a wheel but thinking I would rather be braced for impact.
Landed on drivers side and bounced again so the car came to rest on its side on the passenger side with me in my seat in the air. Now I could hear fluids escaping. I’ve worked offshore for many years and we practice underwater escape from seats buckled in. I reached down, released my seat belt and dropped my feet onto the passenger door window, which was now the ‘floor’. Because the drivers door window had smashed on the first impact I was able to literally pop my head out and lever myself out of the car.
The guy who had witnessed the accident occurring was probably more shocked at the time than I was, he literally couldn’t believe I was alive. Amazingly all I had was a few cuts from the broken glass and bruising from my seat belt, The witness very kindly gave me a lift home. It was only in the bath half an hour later soaking my cuts and bruises that the enormity of what I had escaped sank in.
Five days later I went to the recovery yard to see my car. Every single panel was dented, the windscreen badly crazed and roof line severely warped. The only straight bit of the car was the rear spoiler, which was carbon fibre and had presumably flexed on impact and sprung back. It was so bad I didn’t even want to take a photo, I felt literally sick to my stomach.
I was so, so lucky and I thank Mitsubishi for the strength they built into their Evo cars. It changed my driving style completely, I was simply travelling too fast for the conditions and the rubber I had on my car at the time, I always try to remember this. I also remember the look in my wife’s eyes as I described what happened risking my life for a fast drive out is not an option.
I went from chasing the latest and fastest Evo/Subaru to getting an older and slower classic car and thinking about my driving much more. I still have the odd daft moment, but much more rarely.
Made it through that and into the field which was newly ploughed. Car dug in and flipped onto drivers side smashing the drivers door window. Did a full 360 barrel roll. Again I remember clearly the sky going around me just like a roller coaster and thinking this is going to hurt. I braced myself in the rather wonderful Recaro bucket seats and grasped the steering wheel as tight as I could. I also remember that I had the internal debate about breaking my wrists if it landed on a wheel but thinking I would rather be braced for impact.
Landed on drivers side and bounced again so the car came to rest on its side on the passenger side with me in my seat in the air. Now I could hear fluids escaping. I’ve worked offshore for many years and we practice underwater escape from seats buckled in. I reached down, released my seat belt and dropped my feet onto the passenger door window, which was now the ‘floor’. Because the drivers door window had smashed on the first impact I was able to literally pop my head out and lever myself out of the car.
The guy who had witnessed the accident occurring was probably more shocked at the time than I was, he literally couldn’t believe I was alive. Amazingly all I had was a few cuts from the broken glass and bruising from my seat belt, The witness very kindly gave me a lift home. It was only in the bath half an hour later soaking my cuts and bruises that the enormity of what I had escaped sank in.
Five days later I went to the recovery yard to see my car. Every single panel was dented, the windscreen badly crazed and roof line severely warped. The only straight bit of the car was the rear spoiler, which was carbon fibre and had presumably flexed on impact and sprung back. It was so bad I didn’t even want to take a photo, I felt literally sick to my stomach.
I was so, so lucky and I thank Mitsubishi for the strength they built into their Evo cars. It changed my driving style completely, I was simply travelling too fast for the conditions and the rubber I had on my car at the time, I always try to remember this. I also remember the look in my wife’s eyes as I described what happened risking my life for a fast drive out is not an option.
I went from chasing the latest and fastest Evo/Subaru to getting an older and slower classic car and thinking about my driving much more. I still have the odd daft moment, but much more rarely.
sardis said:
Apologies rat rod, must have posted when I was composing mine. Sounds a similar experience,
So not just me then, I went out and bought a Mercedes 200,after the accident, wanted something strong but with a small engine, that was followed by a 7 series BMW with the smallest engine available a 2.8.Took me a good 6 months at least before i got my confidence back and went to the other extreme and bought a supercharged 205 1.9 for my daily and a 500 bhp 3 dr Cosi for weekends. Could say i was getting back on the horse.
Certainly brings it home to you that it can happen to anyone not just other people , even more so that we had not long
had a baby.
Think big G was looking after both of us that day, Don't know about you but next time i take a short cut across a field i'll use a Range Rover.
Edited by rat rod on Thursday 10th December 20:05
Ferruccio said:
On the 30th anniversary jaunt to Sant Agata in 1993, I took the Jalpa, as it’s a targa.
The cops had a boozy lunch with us and then closed off some of the roads.
We drove out in small groups; I happened to be at the front of one.
I came over a small humpbacked hill doing about 110mph.
Not too far in front was a police car parked across the road with two policemen standing in front of it indicated that I should turn right.
I thought that there was no way that I could slow down in time to take the turn.
They didn’t move.
I was going to kill two Italian policemen.
Somehow I scrubbed the speed and got through the turn.
They cheered.
Those were the days.
I've had a few not too dissimilar. One involved four Spanish policemen, a crest on the road, and a F355 GTS. The cops had a boozy lunch with us and then closed off some of the roads.
We drove out in small groups; I happened to be at the front of one.
I came over a small humpbacked hill doing about 110mph.
Not too far in front was a police car parked across the road with two policemen standing in front of it indicated that I should turn right.
I thought that there was no way that I could slow down in time to take the turn.
They didn’t move.
I was going to kill two Italian policemen.
Somehow I scrubbed the speed and got through the turn.
They cheered.
Those were the days.
I've also chronicled a few others.
[quote= rat rod]
So not just me then, I went out and bought a Mercedes 200,after the accident, wanted something strong but with a small engine, that was followed by a 7 series BMW with the smallest engine available a 2.8.
Took me a good 6 months at least before i got my confidence back and went to the other extreme and bought a supercharged 205 1.9 for my daily and a 500 bhp 3 dr Cosi for weekends. Could say i was getting back on the horse.
Certainly brings it home to you that it can happen to anyone not just other people , even more so that we had not long
had a baby.
Think big G was looking after both of us that day, Don't know about you but next time i take a short cut across a field i'll use a Range Rover.
Definitely, someone was looking after me that day!
So not just me then, I went out and bought a Mercedes 200,after the accident, wanted something strong but with a small engine, that was followed by a 7 series BMW with the smallest engine available a 2.8.
Took me a good 6 months at least before i got my confidence back and went to the other extreme and bought a supercharged 205 1.9 for my daily and a 500 bhp 3 dr Cosi for weekends. Could say i was getting back on the horse.
Certainly brings it home to you that it can happen to anyone not just other people , even more so that we had not long
had a baby.
Think big G was looking after both of us that day, Don't know about you but next time i take a short cut across a field i'll use a Range Rover.
Definitely, someone was looking after me that day!
long left hand corner, at about 9am in April. It had snowed a little the night before and the vegetation between my lane and the opposite one was still wet. I think I must have missed a cold wet/damp spot in the outside lane while accelerating. Was too slow to correct/throw on opposite lock and didn't have enough space, so the car went under the barrier - at which point I lost consciousness - from what I gather it landed on the barrier on the roof and ultimately quite a long way further down the road on the tyres again. When I woke up, the windshield had shaved off a good part of my head and my dog was hanging outside the car (I bet he was not unconscious and if he could talk would have some stories to tell about somersaulting in the car...). Spent quite a bit of time in hospital and have a big scar as reminder on my head. It was an unlimited stretch of Autobahn.
Edit to add: Without the rollcage we both would have been dead without a doubt
Picture my dad took of the car
Edit to add: Without the rollcage we both would have been dead without a doubt
Picture my dad took of the car
t sir, glad you’re ok now!sardis said:
Hmm, don’t think you are all trying hard enough. Came over a crest on a country road in my Evo 8, to see water pouring across the road in a stream, it had been raining but didn’t think it was that bad. The car was shod in Yokohama Advan tyres, great in the dry, horrible in the wet. Eased off and held the wheel straight but as above all four wheels lifted off the tarmac and I was carried across the road into the verge. Took out 110 feet of post and rail fence, I remember vividly watching the wood flying up in the air and recalling an episode of 999 when the driver got impaled by one of the posts.
Made it through that and into the field which was newly ploughed. Car dug in and flipped onto drivers side smashing the drivers door window. Did a full 360 barrel roll. Again I remember clearly the sky going around me just like a roller coaster and thinking this is going to hurt. I braced myself in the rather wonderful Recaro bucket seats and grasped the steering wheel as tight as I could. I also remember that I had the internal debate about breaking my wrists if it landed on a wheel but thinking I would rather be braced for impact.
Landed on drivers side and bounced again so the car came to rest on its side on the passenger side with me in my seat in the air. Now I could hear fluids escaping. I’ve worked offshore for many years and we practice underwater escape from seats buckled in. I reached down, released my seat belt and dropped my feet onto the passenger door window, which was now the ‘floor’. Because the drivers door window had smashed on the first impact I was able to literally pop my head out and lever myself out of the car.
The guy who had witnessed the accident occurring was probably more shocked at the time than I was, he literally couldn’t believe I was alive. Amazingly all I had was a few cuts from the broken glass and bruising from my seat belt, The witness very kindly gave me a lift home. It was only in the bath half an hour later soaking my cuts and bruises that the enormity of what I had escaped sank in.
Five days later I went to the recovery yard to see my car. Every single panel was dented, the windscreen badly crazed and roof line severely warped. The only straight bit of the car was the rear spoiler, which was carbon fibre and had presumably flexed on impact and sprung back. It was so bad I didn’t even want to take a photo, I felt literally sick to my stomach.
I was so, so lucky and I thank Mitsubishi for the strength they built into their Evo cars. It changed my driving style completely, I was simply travelling too fast for the conditions and the rubber I had on my car at the time, I always try to remember this. I also remember the look in my wife’s eyes as I described what happened risking my life for a fast drive out is not an option.
I went from chasing the latest and fastest Evo/Subaru to getting an older and slower classic car and thinking about my driving much more. I still have the odd daft moment, but much more rarely.
I would say this is more of a massive accident than a "moment". A "moment" is surely a close call.Made it through that and into the field which was newly ploughed. Car dug in and flipped onto drivers side smashing the drivers door window. Did a full 360 barrel roll. Again I remember clearly the sky going around me just like a roller coaster and thinking this is going to hurt. I braced myself in the rather wonderful Recaro bucket seats and grasped the steering wheel as tight as I could. I also remember that I had the internal debate about breaking my wrists if it landed on a wheel but thinking I would rather be braced for impact.
Landed on drivers side and bounced again so the car came to rest on its side on the passenger side with me in my seat in the air. Now I could hear fluids escaping. I’ve worked offshore for many years and we practice underwater escape from seats buckled in. I reached down, released my seat belt and dropped my feet onto the passenger door window, which was now the ‘floor’. Because the drivers door window had smashed on the first impact I was able to literally pop my head out and lever myself out of the car.
The guy who had witnessed the accident occurring was probably more shocked at the time than I was, he literally couldn’t believe I was alive. Amazingly all I had was a few cuts from the broken glass and bruising from my seat belt, The witness very kindly gave me a lift home. It was only in the bath half an hour later soaking my cuts and bruises that the enormity of what I had escaped sank in.
Five days later I went to the recovery yard to see my car. Every single panel was dented, the windscreen badly crazed and roof line severely warped. The only straight bit of the car was the rear spoiler, which was carbon fibre and had presumably flexed on impact and sprung back. It was so bad I didn’t even want to take a photo, I felt literally sick to my stomach.
I was so, so lucky and I thank Mitsubishi for the strength they built into their Evo cars. It changed my driving style completely, I was simply travelling too fast for the conditions and the rubber I had on my car at the time, I always try to remember this. I also remember the look in my wife’s eyes as I described what happened risking my life for a fast drive out is not an option.
I went from chasing the latest and fastest Evo/Subaru to getting an older and slower classic car and thinking about my driving much more. I still have the odd daft moment, but much more rarely.
Fair enough it was simply my interpretation of what was meant by moment. It was certainly unforgettable and is etched in my mind. What still amazes me is the ability of the human brain to process information and make decisions under extreme duress!
MDL111 so glad you survived your experience.
MDL111 so glad you survived your experience.
MDL111 said:
long left hand corner, at about 9am in April. It had snowed a little the night before and the vegetation between my lane and the opposite one was still wet. I think I must have missed a cold wet/damp spot in the outside lane while accelerating. Was too slow to correct/throw on opposite lock and didn't have enough space, so the car went under the barrier - at which point I lost consciousness - from what I gather it landed on the barrier on the roof and ultimately quite a long way further down the road on the tyres again. When I woke up, the windshield had shaved off a good part of my head and my dog was hanging outside the car (I bet he was not unconscious and if he could talk would have some stories to tell about somersaulting in the car...). Spent quite a bit of time in hospital and have a big scar as reminder on my head. It was an unlimited stretch of Autobahn.
Edit to add: Without the rollcage we both would have been dead without a doubt
Picture my dad took of the car
Holy moly that's mental...glad you survived v lucky Edit to add: Without the rollcage we both would have been dead without a doubt
Picture my dad took of the car
A trip to the 'Ring. It was a lovely sunny day. Sunday. Our third day. It was a UK bank holiday weekend so things were a bit chaotic because the ferries just emptied out tons of people in all sorts of cars and bikes with all sorts of levels of experience who basically drove straight to the 'Ring. Saturday had seen the track mostly closed as they scraped up wreckage all over the place. Sadly I think two people were killed that weekend, one a local on a bike who apparently was dicing with the Ring taxi and went out over a barrier into the forest and wasn't found for a while. There was even a medevac chopper at one stage and I saw an M5 parked sideways on the armco, which is kind of difficult to arrange even as a stunt. One of our party had a big oil leak out of his GT3 which caused five cars and three bikes to go off. It was that kind of Ring weekend.
Back to Sunday, it was close to the end of the day with the sun low in the sky and making it marginal to keep going so we decided on one more lap (it seems to me it's nearly always the last one of the day, just one more push, that causes the problem). I was paxing and the chap I was with kept his pristine 993 out there at Black Falcon, where I saw an MC12 and two Enzos (this was 10 years ago). In the paddock I had noticed this gorgeous blond girl wearing a black what looked like racing suit with a matt black stripe shake her golden locks and put on a black helmet with a matt black stripe and get into a black Cayman R Design with (you guessed) a matt black stripe and set off a few cars ahead of us.
Forgot her, then I think it was Tiergarten, coming in maybe 5-10mph too hot we came around the bend to see - the blonde in the black Cayman with one light blinking furiously, pointed towards us with, bits of it of various sizes and shapes literally all over the track. To the left, there was the front bumper and one headlight assembly and assorted bits but some space back to the track over grass. To the right there was less debris but an impossible angle to get past armco. I was a pax so powerless. As I looked at the dilemma facing my driver I had real clarity of thought. I gripped the door handle and my knee and thought "Oh, this is going to be interesting". My driver chose (braking not being an option due to entry speed and distance to Cayman) to drive over the bumper and debris and onto grass before skidding back semi sideways and correcting it a few times in ever diminishing yawing before looking up and we did a high five and carried on. Behind me there were about half a dozen fast movers who executed the same move over the scattered wreckage.
I can replay this in slow motion to this day.
Back to Sunday, it was close to the end of the day with the sun low in the sky and making it marginal to keep going so we decided on one more lap (it seems to me it's nearly always the last one of the day, just one more push, that causes the problem). I was paxing and the chap I was with kept his pristine 993 out there at Black Falcon, where I saw an MC12 and two Enzos (this was 10 years ago). In the paddock I had noticed this gorgeous blond girl wearing a black what looked like racing suit with a matt black stripe shake her golden locks and put on a black helmet with a matt black stripe and get into a black Cayman R Design with (you guessed) a matt black stripe and set off a few cars ahead of us.
Forgot her, then I think it was Tiergarten, coming in maybe 5-10mph too hot we came around the bend to see - the blonde in the black Cayman with one light blinking furiously, pointed towards us with, bits of it of various sizes and shapes literally all over the track. To the left, there was the front bumper and one headlight assembly and assorted bits but some space back to the track over grass. To the right there was less debris but an impossible angle to get past armco. I was a pax so powerless. As I looked at the dilemma facing my driver I had real clarity of thought. I gripped the door handle and my knee and thought "Oh, this is going to be interesting". My driver chose (braking not being an option due to entry speed and distance to Cayman) to drive over the bumper and debris and onto grass before skidding back semi sideways and correcting it a few times in ever diminishing yawing before looking up and we did a high five and carried on. Behind me there were about half a dozen fast movers who executed the same move over the scattered wreckage.
I can replay this in slow motion to this day.
MDL111 said:
long left hand corner, at about 9am in April. It had snowed a little the night before and the vegetation between my lane and the opposite one was still wet. I think I must have missed a cold wet/damp spot in the outside lane while accelerating. Was too slow to correct/throw on opposite lock and didn't have enough space, so the car went under the barrier - at which point I lost consciousness - from what I gather it landed on the barrier on the roof and ultimately quite a long way further down the road on the tyres again. When I woke up, the windshield had shaved off a good part of my head and my dog was hanging outside the car (I bet he was not unconscious and if he could talk would have some stories to tell about somersaulting in the car...). Spent quite a bit of time in hospital and have a big scar as reminder on my head. It was an unlimited stretch of Autobahn.
Edit to add: Without the rollcage we both would have been dead without a doubt
Picture my dad took of the car
Wow, I'm speechless for once, Can't believe you survived that, car is almost unrecognisable . Edit to add: Without the rollcage we both would have been dead without a doubt
Picture my dad took of the car
Debating whether to take my cage out of the GTB as i find myself using it more on the road and less on the track these days
but after after seeing this i think you have made my mind up for me to leave it in.
So glad you and your dog survived , what was your dogs reaction the next time you went to take him/her in the car with you.
Not one of my own, but a few years ago I did an organised European road trip, which stopped at Interlaken, and the the following day took you through the Alps.
One of the guys and his passenger decided to go out early in his modified cupra, and another guy went with them in his Porsche, when it came time for everyone to set off, no one had heard off anyone in the Cupra.
Turns out the Cupra had lost it on a corner, and left the road off the side of a Swiss Mountain, Driver wasnt wearing a seatbelt and was flung from the car on the way down, car was unrecogniseable, and the engine was quite a distance away from the car.
One of the guys and his passenger decided to go out early in his modified cupra, and another guy went with them in his Porsche, when it came time for everyone to set off, no one had heard off anyone in the Cupra.
Turns out the Cupra had lost it on a corner, and left the road off the side of a Swiss Mountain, Driver wasnt wearing a seatbelt and was flung from the car on the way down, car was unrecogniseable, and the engine was quite a distance away from the car.
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